Hacking basics

[Madness]

I was wondering if there is a site out there that would give me some basics of hacking (methods etc.). I`m not into hacking some company server or whatever or any financial benefits etc. (I`m serious)
I`d just like to know a little more about it (sort of a general knowledge issue).
thanks

[jester22c]

Step 1) learn Unix and read up on the most common forms of encryption.

[Tekime]

Read this:

http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html


This is interesting too, if you want to know what hacking is really about (it's an entire book, but a great read):

http://www.oreilly.com/openbook/freedom/


If you are more interested in cracking, i.e. exploits/sniffing/spoofing/social engineering/etc. I suggest finding a different forum for that. Maybe alt.2600 if you can sift through the crap ;) Just be wise with your knowledge :p :)

[osp1keo]

i know the answers to all your serious to know.
i studied it and screwed up in school cause of what i learned.
email me at osp1keo@yahoo.com

and the truth its a waste of knowledge, but i'll teach u for the hell of it.
you don't really need to know linux, for starting out you have to understand vunerabilities and how you can use them.

[biosx]

osp1keo: I went to your site. It looks nice but your doc's are lame and so are you. Please take down that AIM Virus doc; you know that its bogus. I just hope that nobody has actually done that.

Madness: Learn C, *nix, Perl, and some basic Assembly. Then read up on basic web administration and security. From there you should know what you are doing and actually talk with knowledgable people. Please don't become a cookbook-kid or a script-kiddie. Nobody likes a wannabe. If you are really going to learn it, you have to devote time to it (like anything).

That How To Become A Hacker doc is an oldie but goodie. ;)

[Tekime]

Originally posted by biosx
osp1keo: I went to your site. It looks nice but your doc's are lame and so are you. Please take down that AIM Virus doc; you know that its bogus. I just hope that nobody has actually done that.


It's legit, I believe.
http://www.computing.net/security/wwwboard/forum/712.html (LOL ;) )
http://vil.nai.com/vil/content/v_99437.htm
http://vil.mcafee.com/dispVirus.asp?virus_k=99437


Madness: Learn C, *nix, Perl, and some basic Assembly. Then read up on basic web administration and security. From there you should know what you are doing and actually talk with knowledgable people. Please don't become a cookbook-kid or a script-kiddie. Nobody likes a wannabe. If you are really going to learn it, you have to devote time to it (like anything).

That How To Become A Hacker doc is an oldie but goodie. ;)

ROTFLMAO... it's like "How to be a hacker in 6 easy steps" or something. Just learn C, *nix, Perl, VBScript, Memorize the RFC's, and study your exploits! In just 4 years you could be....

:o Sorry it's been a long day... :p

[osp1keo]

biosx, that aim virus thing was there a long time.
i got a million emails per day for people wanting to know how to disabling the aim virus thing. they were complete newbees. they didnt know how to even click on the start button and how to use it. so i was chatting with them for hours. so i just ended up typing something out to teach them how to use it.
they must of been mothers or something. I really didn't ask their age.
i remember one of them being a 13 year old.

and the truth, u don't need to learn C to figure out how to hack.
you really have to first understand how alot of software works.
for example: servu, i dont know if alot of people have figured this out. but if you uncheck the security checkbox that ftp program automatically becomes a backdoor. you can also code a visualbasic program that can be binded to it, and it can automatically message you on icq. I have made one in vb some long time ago. i will be uploading it to my page.

and for those who like to learn about subsevens functions and how to put a back door on someone, that is the easy way, but you dont really learn anything.

anywho, i'll get back.

[osp1keo]

Tekime , heh i'be become famous.
hehe, i love computing.net you have no idea who i have met.

i met the top HP Company manager. heh thanks to the internet and my postings.

i met alot of people make me famous! hehe.
jokin.

just message me your computer problems or email me.
i get alot, and i dot help them all.

[biosx]

Hey, that's how a lot of people learn. I'm not saying that this will take a week, a month, or even a year. I think it depends all on your motivation and your willingness to give up time to learn. Only a couple of my math/programming friends from high school have actually kept up with the books and learned to do interesting things with Perl or C.

IMHO, just read up on anything the interests you. Don't listen to me and don't listen to anybody else. If you want to crack into people's systems and steal data, then go ahead and do that whatever way you want (sub7, back orifice, <insert script>). If you want to learn the innards of micro-architecture and bit manipulations, go ahead and start as early as possible.

SEriously, I hate all this hacker/cracker ********. People going around asking how to write virii, crack into routers, read their girlfriend's email, and **** like that. If you really want to know, then go out there a ****ing learn. It's not like people are born knowing how to write code. Phiber Optik and Mitnick didn't go around asking "What can I do with this IP address I found?" (although there is speculation that Mitnick was a horrible programmer and basically had other people write his exploits). I can't even think about going to alt.2600 b/c it has just become this "playground" for 13 year olds asking for serial #'s, program cracks, and "how to steal passwords". Everywhere you turn there are just stupid people asking stupid questions. IRC, USENET, and every forum on the web.

The information is out there, so go get it. God :rolleyes:

[osp1keo]

biosx, you are right. but i think hacking or learning it is a waste of time.
I am a C and C++ programmer.
and yes, i have writen virus programs, and trojan programs in visualbasic. I have figured it is just a waste of time.

I think people should just stick to how to make money with programming skills.

but if you really want to learn how to hack, it's up to you.

anyone out there, if you have programs you have writen or documents. email me, i can post it on my page. I do get alot of hits per day.
or if you have a banner that you want me to post on the page, email me the info of what it is.

osp1keo@yahoo.com
webpage ( just updated ): http://www.geocities.com/osp1keo

[Tekime]

biosx:
I think that what you had said was sound advice, I was just messing around :)

(although there is speculation that Mitnick was a horrible programmer and basically had other people write his exploits).

lol... tell tale sign of a true hacker :D j/k


osp1keo:

hehe, i love computing.net you have no idea who i have met.

It's a great site.

you can also code a visualbasic program that can be binded to it, and it can automatically message you on icq. I have made one in vb some long time ago. i will be uploading it to my page.

As interesting as the vulnerability is, you are telling me you plan on posting malicious code for the public?? You would be much more of a "hacker" if you posted an advisory and a fix :p ;)

Madness:
Like biosx said if you seek the knowledge then research what interests you. Giving you links that describe how to hack into people comps, steal data, etc. would be in violation of the AUP (http://www.internet.com/corporate/privacy/aup.html). Have fun and seek the knowledge that interests you.

[biosx]

Tekime: Sorry if I sounded like I was counter-arguing. I was just furthering my comment I guess you could say :p I liked the posting of the story of Stallman. It seemed like an interesting read from the first chapter.

osp1keo: I agree that sometimes serial programs and basic attack virii could get repetitive. However, I feel that there is more to do with programming skills than 'make money'. Look at people like Zimmerman, Torvalds, Stallman, and Wall. They all took their knowledge and ended up creating revolutionary contributions to software and computing in general.

In general I think we should never be satisfied with what we know, b/c at that point we begin to stop our learning (and therefore fall behind and lose edge). I hope I never become satisfied with myself.

[e_dawg]

I guess this is cracking...

You cannot really learn to be a real hacker -- hackers are born, not trained.

[biosx]

Originally posted by e_dawg
I guess this is cracking...

You cannot really learn to be a real hacker -- hackers are born, not trained.

Huh? Oh yeah, I forgot. Babie's are born knowing all the x86 registers and can code Perl.

My mistake :) Man I wish I was one of those people.

::sigh:: :rolleyes:

[Grizzly]

Originally posted by biosx

Huh? Oh yeah, I forgot. Babie's are born knowing all the x86 registers and can code Perl.

My mistake :) Man I wish I was one of those people.

::sigh:: :rolleyes:

I think e_dawg's point was, that it's widely believed that there is a fine line between a "cracker" and a "hacker." And the thing that differentiates a "hacker" from a "cracker" is a certain mentality that you have to be born with. Actual knowledge/implementation/experience of "hacking" are all just details-schmetails.

[JabberJaw]

Originally posted by Grizzly


I think e_dawg's point was, that it's widely believed that there is a fine line between a "cracker" and a "hacker." And the thing that differentiates a "hacker" from a "cracker" is a certain mentality that you have to be born with. Actual knowledge/implementation/experience of "hacking" are all just details-schmetails.

http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/h/hacker.html

hacker:
"A slang term for a computer enthusiast, i.e., a person who enjoys learning programming languages and computer systems and can often be considered an expert on the subject(s). Among professional programmers, depending on how it used, the term can be either complimentary or derogatory, although it is developing an increasingly derogatory connotation. The pejorative sense of hacker is becoming more prominent largely because the popular press has coopted the term to refer to individuals who gain unauthorized access to computer systems for the purpose of stealing and corrupting data. Hackers, themselves, maintain that the proper term for such individuals is cracker."

The difference is not nearly as subtle as has been implied. It is in fact as clear as the difference between honor and dishonor. If that difference does not seem self-evident, then someone is denying their conscience, or they are socially aberrant and need to be educated in that regard.

Analogous to an honest locksmith, who uses his skills to help people, versus a dishonest one, who uses his skills to sneak into peoples' houses and snoop or steal, those who use their computer skills (or the scripted skills of others) to pry into or disrupt other people's computers are nothing better than lowly thieves deserving of punishment, not glorification of their misdeeds.

Furthermore, it's obvious that the topic poster's question is a violation of this site's Acceptable Use Policy, and it's a disservice to this site and its members that a moderator would participate in, rather than moderate, this topic.

[Grizzly]

Originally posted by JabberJaw

Furthermore, it's obvious that the topic poster's question is a violation of this site's Acceptable Use Policy, and it's a disservice to this site and its members that a moderator would participate in, rather than moderate, this topic.

Thanks for your input on the “hacker” vs “cracker” JabberJaw, it's becoming obvious that these terms have as many different interpretations as the bible itself. Aren't languages fun? :p

Now allow me to respond to the above quote. I appreciate your intentions to keep Sharky's clean, the AUP is sort of like our own little U.S. Constitution in the United States of SharkyForums. Much like the Constitution, as mods, we must interpret the AUP, and apply it on a case-by-case basis, rather than make "blanket" enforcements of its laws.

SAT question time: The Supreme Court is to the U.S. Constitution as __________ are to the AUP:
a) school bus b) mods c) nuns d) kittens e) all of the above
If you answered (b), you we’re correct! Thanks for playing.

Anyways, my point is this. A blind application of our AUP might toss this topic right out the window, but anyone who looks deeper than face value at this topic will quickly see that the spirit and intentions behind it are in fact quite noble. It's obvious that "Madness" is eager to dive into the world of information security, and he just doesn't quite know where to start. Today's business world is suffering from a severe lack of qualified information security analysts. If "Madness" is eager to learn, and wants to fight with the "good guys," than more power to him, the world needs more people like him. Ask the estimated 40,000 employees at the NSA - they all had to start somewhere.

Thanks for the moderation suggestion JabberJaw, though I disagree with your assessment of this topic, consider your suggestion duly noted.

[biosx]

Originally posted by JabberJaw

hacker:
Analogous to an honest locksmith, who uses his skills to help people, versus a dishonest one, who uses his skills to sneak into peoples' houses and snoop or steal, those who use their computer skills (or the scripted skills of others) to pry into or disrupt other people's computers are nothing better than lowly thieves deserving of punishment, not glorification of their misdeeds.


I just want to say that you had a great analogy there. I agree with that 100%. A locksmith and a catnapper have (essentially) the same tools and skills but use them in different ways.

I also want to apologize to e_dawg for misinterpreting his post. Please forgive me.

I think Madness' post was legit as well. He wasn't being lame asking how to crack into people's hotmail or anything like that. He just wanted to learn the basics, which isn't that harmful at all. Sounds like he's curious, that's all.

[JabberJaw]

Grizzly, I see your point, and appreciate your humor. Perhaps 'Madness' could've been advised to re-word his post. Anyway, sorry if I came across a bit harsh earlier, but like a lot of folks I'm angry about having to go to great lengths to defend my data from vandals. So although I understand and abide by your decision, I'd like to make my last post in this thread.

The AUP is very clearly defined:

"You will not use these forums to violate any laws nor to discuss illegal activities."

"You will not use these Forums for the purposes of sharing or distributing viruses, licenses, registration information, software keys, "cracks," or other information designed to do harm to or allow unlawful access to any computer hardware, software, networks, or any other systems."

http://www.internet.com/corporate/privacy/aup.html

I'm sure the topic poster meant no harm. However, the topic clearly invited, and received in response, discussion, advice, and several links to websites, containing "information designed to do harm to or allow unlawful access to computer hardware, software, networks, or other systems."

AUP and legal issues aside, where is the harm to SEforums? Maybe I'm misinterpreting what I've read earlier in this thread. But IMO any type of discussion that glorifies cybercriminal behavior in any way, sullies these reputable forums. And provides a means of opportunity and access for those people who might not otherwise be tempted to explore the ways of computer vandalism on the internet. So. I sincerely hope that anyone reading through this thread, thinking "cool, i can be a hacker and mess with people's systems if i just do this and that", realize that it isn't cool, it's dishonorable behavior and they can do better than that. Instead spend the effort learning to create useful stuff people want.

Peace:)

[Tekime]

Originally posted by JabberJaw

...
I'm sure the topic poster meant no harm. However, the topic clearly invited, and received in response, discussion, advice, and several links to websites, containing "information designed to do harm to or allow unlawful access to computer hardware, software, networks, or other systems."
...


I don't think any links containing "information designed to do harm to or allow unlawful access to computer hardware, software, networks, or other systems." were posted. There were a few pieces of software mentioned, but without links to to that software, instructions on use, or even a detailed explanation of their purpose, I don't think it could classify as violating the AUP.

Great analogy though, it stresses the importance of intent in clarifying the differences between hackers and crackers. :)


Personally, I think it's a good topic. Someone is asking how to "hack". Obviously they want guidance, and instead of locking the thread and forcing them to *gag* alt.2600, or to any other of a thousand places which do not need mentioning, we are helping to clarify the subject and give some wisdom on the Right way to do things. Cheers for being reasonable about this one Grizzly.

edit: ubb error

[Madness]

this certainly became a busy thread ;)

Anyway thanks for all the replies, I know it`s not easy and yes, I am just curious rather than wanting to hack my girlfriends email to spy on her (althought the thought has occured ;)
And I certainly did not want to post something against user agreement (small confession: I`ve never actually read the entire thing ;)

my post actually originated as an aftermath of my conversation/arguement with some neighbour that claims his website (password protected content) is hack/crack proof. I must say I am kind of tempted to have a go at it sometime (just coz I hate him ever since I met him in 5th grade :mad:

And again thanks for the links and all your comments, I suddenly got an overwhelming feeling about the whole thing :p

[Tekime]

Nothing is crack proof. If he thinks that is true, he is only hurting himself ;)

[Isezumi]

Hey madness, since the Mitnick and the like have soiled the good name of Hacker. I believe the proper title for the skills that you are seeking is "Security Infiltration Specialist" or something to that Nature, there a dozens of them online now a days. They actually make a living by being payed to hack sites and report the weaknesses that they find.

[e_dawg]

Originally posted by Isezumi
Hey madness, since the Mitnick and the like have soiled the good name of Hacker. I believe the proper title for the skills that you are seeking is "Security Infiltration Specialist" or something to that Nature, there a dozens of them online now a days. They actually make a living by being payed to hack sites and report the weaknesses that they find.
Mitnick was a script kiddie from a cracker standpoint, at best. Hackers are totally different from crackers -- while a hacker usually is capable of everything a cracker is, hackers don't use them unless there is some reason to. Real hackers prefer to create things, not destroy them.

[biosx]

Hackers write programs. Crackers use programs.

[e_dawg]

Originally posted by biosx
Hackers write programs. Crackers use programs.
Hackers just tend to be non-malicious. Normally a hacker is capable of cracking if they want to... Hackers can become crackers.

However, you can be trained to be a cracker without having hacking skills. Real crackers can usually write programs, it's the average script-kiddie cracker that is the problem.

[Tekime]

Ahh... all these great catch phrases. If only I were in the bumper sticker industry.... :p ;)