MMORPG with PVP

[Bog_Trooper]

None of the upcoming MMORPG sem to have a PVP component. Does WOW? Does Horizons? I just finished playing DAOC for 2 years and liked the Pvp component, looking for a new fix.

[Schmunkel98]

WoW will have a PvP system, as do most MMORPG's out there now. I'm hoping Blizzard's game really starts a better trend with this genre.

[Kamakazie]

I just started playing Star Wars Galaxies, and that has some crazy PvP.

[Schmunkel98]

What server you on Kamakazie?

[chadington]

ultima x looks like it has potential for decent pvp, but no pking. the people have to be consenting if they want to fight, and big guild wars.

[G_Dragon_]

Whatever happened to the self policing community idea? I still prefer the JG logic of "if you really mouth off to me or disrespect me it is in my full rights to blast your ship out from under you and send you for a quick pod ride home". There is just something far more satisfying in earning and striving for respect..rather than having it handed to you on a platter. Be a jerk in a game..and be blasted to bits like a jerk in said game.

[Matanza]

Lineage 2 suposedly have no lvl limit on pvp or something. My friend played korean beta i guess, he said people could just walk up and smack you around.

[Trunks]

yes that is right...in Lineage 2 all you have to do is hold control and attack them :D you just can't poison them or anything, unless they hit you back.

[Kamakazie]

Originally posted by Schmunkel98
What server you on Kamakazie?

Tarquinas

[LordVampyre]

okay help a old man out.. whats pvp

[PointlesS]

pvp = player vs player...
I'm in the horizions beta and while I haven't played a ton of it...there really doesn't seem to be a whole lot of pvp...however the game's economy is totally driven by the players themself...

[Kamakazie]

When i was beta testing Everquest Online Adventures, I absolutely HATED that there was no PvP. I didnt feel that there was any reason to lvl my char.

[Dimitris]

Best pvp system out there atm is daoc, and the new mmorpgs seem to be lacking at this. However, if u do pick up daoc, then don't go jump the bandwagon and go mid.kthx

[Recon]

Shadowbane for all its flaws had a slolid PvP system, and you know what a player policed PvP system worked!

[chadington]

shadowbane has a good pk/pvp system but the game is just boring as hell sometimes.

ultima online in the day was awesome. it was realistic, none of that 40000 health pts bs. you could kill anyone with 2-3 axe hits or the right combination of spells.

[Recon]

Oh I agree SB had like NO content, but its PvP/PK system is the best Ive ever come across, period

[Roondog]

Dragon Empires is a new game being developed by Codemasters. Its in an early beta test stage at the moment. I think their approach to PvP has tremendous potential. Also, according to the current beta testers, they are focusing on PvP balance first, before all the other systems are tweaked.

[PointlesS]

yeah I'm looking forward to how that one plays out...I'm not a big fan of mmorpg's or even rpg's for that matter but that game looks really promising and I got accepted into the beta test for it :)

[Chompman]

Looks like wow will be like most eq servers. Duel arenas and such so no open pvp cept maybe certain servers. Good thing to otherwise wow would blow. Anytime pvp with no or little punishment ruins to many mmorpg. Reminds me of Eve where anyone could kill anyone at any time and get away with it. Heh getting a titan and blowing some newbs was fun during beta though :p

[Recon]

Originally posted by Chompman
Looks like wow will be like most eq servers. Duel arenas and such so no open pvp cept maybe certain servers. Good thing to otherwise wow would blow. Anytime pvp with no or little punishment ruins to many mmorpg. Reminds me of Eve where anyone could kill anyone at any time and get away with it. Heh getting a titan and blowing some newbs was fun during beta though :p

Actually I COMPLETELY disagree with this statement, PvP with no ability for players to police themselves sucks...but no PvP or limited PvP sucks....Ill elaborate later..right now im too tired

[Schmunkel98]

Please elaborate once you get some coffee.

[Chompman]

Pvp in arenas or duel challanges like in Eq worked wonders. Sure you would get some people that would bug you and refuse your challenges but that is where gm's are for or ignore lists :P
Anytime anywhere pvp in mmorpg are to harsh for most the games out there. If you do still want to do the pvp all the time they are going to bring out the servers too for that so that would make the 11 year old kids that sit home and power level happy to play on those servers and ruin other peoples fun :p
Anytime pvp games gets too full of people that ruin it for others which is why WoW will probly do that.
Just make it like in eq when you ran from a duel everyone knew heh

[Dimitris]

Imo, the best pvp policy would be that such as daoc OR:

You can PK anyone anywhere. However, everytime you pk someone without mutual consent. Your "evil" standing would go up. The more evil you are. Everytime you get spotted by guards, they will run and try to arrest you. To me, this is policy enough.

[Donnie]

accountability is teh rox

[chadington]

shadowbane has the best pvp system for a video game.

but ultima online was hands down the most realistic. because when people try to fight you (in real life) they normally do it where they know they can win. (bring 5 friends, use a weapon, sucker punch you) and you had to be good to stay alive in felucca, and there were theives everywhere. and guards where cool as well. i liked going red and such.

[Recon]

Originally posted by Schmunkel98
Please elaborate once you get some coffee.

Eh to many credits this semester....

Anyway,

in shadowbane I was PK'ed all of 4 times..thats in about 6 months, that being the leader of one of the biggest nations on Dread, a pretty prime target.

what made PvP great was
1) no more waiting in lines for loot. You want it bring a strong enough crew to take it.
2) the game was TONS more interesting, and it added a lvl of suspense that cant be found in your normal mmorpg
3) In any game how long does it take before youve figured "everything" out, how to kill what mob how to maximize loot ect. When your fighting people you NEVER EVER figure everything out. I remember when one of my officers first designed the "zerg ball" for a while it kicked the **** out of everyone....for like 3 hours we held an enemy city using the tactic, untill they got smarter then us =P. You dont get that with a mob, ever, you do X it does Z end of story, maybe a patch changes things but the dynamics arent there.
4) No more waiting in lines for loot. God I hate camping for loot, and dont get me wrong I got hit a couple times waiting for something I wanted when someone stronger came along and appropriated it.



Limited or no PvP takes all these things away on top of.


NO ACCOUNTABILITY

look in a pure PvP game your name is your life, known thieves had a hard time operating, known Newb PK'ers were vigourusly hunted. Because you could punish someone who griefed the game was better, what can you do in Eq or AC or DoAC if someone is griefing you? not much, complain to a advisor or some useless crap like that? If someone is a true griefer well they got thier asses handed to them in SB, (most times).

[chadington]

ill stick to ultima online instead of shadowbane, for my favorite.

i didnt like the whole trammel and how people would sit at the bank and get different colored hair.... what a waste of 10$ a month might as well go get yer basketball jersey and stand outside the foodcourt with a backwards visor. oh wait even those people could beat you up.


the realism is that the rich people had the fast connections and thus could run faster than you. but you could still combat that with skill. plus it had an ungodly amount of people on certain servers, where everytime you logged on youd see countless people youve never seen before.

shadowbane didnt have that, 2000 people on a server. if yer lucky, ill admit it was fun. id hide and ambush a party of 4 people with just my channeler and kill all of them, and i knew how to loot faster than anyone id ever seen, so everytime id go to rune spawns it was mine.

what got me pissed about shadowbane is how they just nerfed the hell out of channelers. yeah they where unbalanced. but you dont make the class totally ****ing useless because too many people complained.

im done ranting for now

[Recon]

I dont believe I ever said SB was the end all, just that games without PvP get old quickly

[chadington]

im waiting till someone realizes to but a DECENT fighting engine in a online rpg, with the engine of two towers in it or somethin.

[ImaNihilist]

WoW will be the BEST MMORPG. Blizzard has never failed to make a quality game. IMO, the best MMORPG to date was Ultimat Online. In it's original state (open PvP enviroment) it had everything, and lacked nothing. It was perfection as far as the game was concerned. Lag for some people was an issue, I never had a problem.

[Recon]

WoW will end up being alot like DAoC for PvP. Which in my mind is a drawback

[Schmunkel98]

Wait a second here. You guys think anyone should be attackable at any time or not? I don't think they will do that anymore because noobs get discouraged.

[Recon]

anytime anyplace

except for maybe some safe newb island/town

[Nabby]

I personally liked PvP servers in EQ. The one I was on (vallon zek) had some restrictions. You could only hit people outside your race and 8lvls above/below you. You couldn't go around killing noobs or anything. The thing that ruined it for me is how they made any class that could cast spells so damn powerfull in that game. I remember my troll warrior lvl 60 was getting snared/rooted by people 8lvls lower than me and I had like almost 200mr (magic resist). It was damn sad. That's why I stopped playing personally, my character became worthless. Also I know of a lot of rogues that quit the game even though they were at the top of the server, because of the resist changes and such. PvP has always been an issue in MMORPG's, shadowbane was ok but I always seemed to get killed by noob killers. I had that much good luck in that game I think at around lvl 20-30 I must've gotten killed like 20-30 times by people 20 levels higher than me.

Hey Recon I played on dread.. What nation where the leader of?? I was in Iniquity for a while, then I stopped playing all together.

[ImaNihilist]

I thought UO did it best. You could be attacked anywhere once you ventured outside of a town. What is wrong with that? That's awesome. And you knew who PKers were because they lost karma and fame. Perfection.

[Recon]

Originally posted by ImaNihilist
I thought UO did it best. You could be attacked anywhere once you ventured outside of a town. What is wrong with that? That's awesome. And you knew who PKers were because they lost karma and fame. Perfection.

yep SB was much like this but UO in the EARLY days was perfections

[ImaNihilist]

If I was a multi-millionare I would hire the original UO team and have them take the game as it was 2-3yrs ago, add necromancy, and have them just redo the graphics...not even 3D graphics. I LIKED the simple 2D overhead view. I just want them to redo the textures and ****, like Baulders gate, so I could run it at like 1600x1200. OMG that would be awesome. Someone give me money, it's for a good cause ^_^

[chadington]

osi had an amazing game on their hands and turned it into total dog crap. id probally still be playing uo if it had that many players and only felucca.

im gonna see about ultima x odessy. it has no open pking, but there are guild wars. and if they do it right it might be really cool. but then again it might suck.

daoc was ok pvp wise. what did it for me, was the unbeleivable amount of time it took to get high level. couldnt stand it.

shadowbane had potential. if they put less servers in so more people on each one, and beefed up the power of the servers. and with soem effort it could of been really cool. but with 500-2000 people on a server playing, it just wasnt fun, i dont think. not like uo where youd fight tons of different people everytime, and only the really good ones youd see over and over again.

in uo i liked how there was no /tell system. it really cut down on **** talking. in shadowbane, you kill someone, everyone gets there panties in a bunch, in uo you did that, plthh who cares youll fight again down the road. people understood the fact that it was a video game.

maybe my bad experience of shadowbane had to do with the fact i randomly picked mourning.... it sucked, but i pked a bit of people

[Recon]

I ran legion VII Felix on Death, or Chaos one of the two heh. anyways we had all of Ice island at one point, and your right people took the game way way to personally, My guild was run as if it was a game (1200 strong) but unfortunatly most people couldnt keep it on that level.

[ImaNihilist]

Man I miss UO. You're right, if they didn't have fel/tram I'd still play.
UO = Best Game Ever

[Trunks]

I think you should be able to attack/be attacked when you are anywhere outside of town.

See, the way it was in Lineage 2 was great (sorry if I bring this up a lot I just loved the game so much, can't wait for the Taiwanese Open Beta and the US Open Beta) You could attack/be attacked anywhere outside town. If you PK'ed a player and became Red/Chaotic (meaning you killed another player when their name was white) you couldn't run in to town, or else you'd be killed by the entrance guards(and trust me, no one can kill them). Players could kill you with no penalties at all and you have a hiiiiiiigh chance of dropping anything in your inventory. You have to get killed by another player numerous, or kill mobs the same level as you to work off your karma...Made it very challenging for PKers to kill all the noobs they wanted.

Although, every now and then I did see a group of 7-15 players who were ALL chaotic :O and they were all atleast level 40 (but at the time, C class armor/weapons were not implemented). I saw that and d/c'ed. Scary sight, but cool at the same time ;)

[japin]

I hope i am not too late to jump in to this conversation. I dont know how it wasnt meantioned in the entire thread but Darkfall is made by some of original members of the UO dev team, not the people who own it now and f'd it up. It is gonna be a while till the game itself is out but it will have gameplay very similiar to UO and the leveling system will be similiar and it will fill in the gaps where UO left off (very few if you ask me).

http://www.darkfallonline.com/

I do totally agree with all the SB comments the pvp/character developement system in SB was prolly the best one i have ever seen but the game was boring as hell... pking was fun but got old when you couldnt find people to pk anymore.

[Lemon]

After 5 years of UO; the AOS expansion did it for me. Pvp didn't take skill anymore, it was all about who had the best items. The people who camped doom day and night were godly and no one could kill them. I don't have the time or patience to compete over the doom bosses for a month, just so I could stand a chance so I just quit UO.

FFXI here I come! Hopefully their pvp will live up to past UO.

[chadington]

this darkfall stuff looks awesome. im gonna definately check it out.

thank god i was out of uo way before that item stuff.

i tried it again 2 years ago. and i was the fastest person on chesapeake, except for 1 person, and in a month i had a 6x heal mage. it was fun until my pin went from under 20 to over 100. then i sold my account.

[natgun]

jumpgate has been and continues to be not only the best PvP MMO game ever, but its also the best MMO game out there. pure, skill-based combat. if you dont know how to fly your ship, you die, simple as that. none of this point and click crapola.

www.jossh.com

[Nabby]

Originally posted by chadington

daoc was ok pvp wise. what did it for me, was the unbeleivable amount of time it took to get high level. couldnt stand it.


You never played EQ did you?? Back in the day, 2-3years ago, I would sit in a zone a exp in a group for 4-6 hours at level 55 and get 1/5 bubbles of exp for my level. And soloing was completely out of the question unless you were a caster or could snare mobs, then maybe you had a chance. I'm talking about on PVP servers not bluebi servers, this is what we called non-pvp servers.

Anyways, I went back to playing DAoC and there is nothing as fun as RvR in battle grounds... The battle grounds were created to help lower level players to practice their skills in RvR so that later on in the game they could be more effective in large scale RvR battles... I personally found them more fun than anything else in the entire game.

[Recon]

I went the AC route after trying them both, Took two weeks off and gained 15 lvls due to thier triangle exp scheme!:p

[Schmunkel98]

You tried SWG yet Recon? I'm having a lot more fun without now that I changed from droid engineer to medic.

[LAG]

Having played most of the mmorpg's out there, I have to agree that both UO and SB had some of the best pvp out there. UO was the better overall game though. I've just recently quit SB, but I can't remember having a better time in some of the big siege wars.

I can understand why some would get discouraged with a free for all pvp atmosphere. But for me, there's just nothing better. It gets old real quick on the lvl treadmill. That was what I liked about SB. You were able to lvl fairly quick and get into the real meat of the game...wackin people!

[Recon]

people evolve and change tactics min to min, a mob well a mob does what a mob does with no real suprise. Thats why free for all PvP is fun, thats why free for all PvP is needed to keep a game alive and popping.



I was playing with a good RL friend just screwing around out hunting, he sat down at the exact time I started my Back Stab, I killed him, even though he was in my guild and in my group eh dead. So I looted his *** =P

anyway its unpredictability like that that makes these games fun, is there an assasin around who will BS me if I sit down to regen, do I have anyone around who can watch my back


Ill tell you I killed SooOOoOO many channilers that were recouping mana its not funny, and its always fun!

[chadington]

i had a healer channeler, and unless i was in a zone where i KNEW i was safe, (like my city) i would stealth before i sat down, some dude tried to bs me when i was casting it, he wound up dead in a matter of seconds. good times, good times.

[LAG]

It was fairly difficult for a thief to get a BS off on my channy as he was Irekei and wore LA. I think in def stance, my def was 1250ish or so. I also gm'd the personal def buff.

[Recon]

Blade Weaver assasins were the shiznit =)

[ImaNihilist]

I just don't understand WHY no one has tried to redo, or recreate what UO first did. You see all these EQ clones and such, but all I WANT to see is a UO clone. The concept of knowing that you might walk out of town and instantly be attacked by a hidden archer in the trees along the path was the best. It was even better when you were naked, so they thought you were a noob, but then you bust out the GM Magery skills:eek:

[LAG]

Agreed. I had a lot of fun in UO in the old days...I had a gm thief with gm fencing and tactics. I'd use the town rules against people...I'd steal, allow them to attack me, then run away and hide. After 2 minutes, I'd come back and the mark would be grey to me, so I'd beat him down and take the rest of his stuff, all inside the town :)

Ah, the good ole days

[Recon]

Originally posted by ImaNihilist
I just don't understand WHY no one has tried to redo, or recreate what UO first did. You see all these EQ clones and such, but all I WANT to see is a UO clone. The concept of knowing that you might walk out of town and instantly be attacked by a hidden archer in the trees along the path was the best. It was even better when you were naked, so they thought you were a noob, but then you bust out the GM Magery skills:eek:

I think SB did a pretty good job of recreating the UO like atmosphere, all they needed was more content and less player driven cityscapes and youd be all set

[zuckuss1]

check this out. An awesome free shard that just opened.

http://wtfman.proboards12.com/index.cgi

[SeaDonkey]

Originally posted by LAG
Agreed. I had a lot of fun in UO in the old days...I had a gm thief with gm fencing and tactics. I'd use the town rules against people...I'd steal, allow them to attack me, then run away and hide. After 2 minutes, I'd come back and the mark would be grey to me, so I'd beat him down and take the rest of his stuff, all inside the town :)

Ah, the good ole days


For a brief period the (uo) town guards were nerfed to be very slow. As a thief it was a blessing. For me it was the newb miners at minoc cove that passed the days. I even think the miners got alot out of it. After a few days of getting bothered by the local pickpocket , the ore miners would decide enough was enough and fight back. They would even make toons for the solo resone of standing watch in mines.

I also think that in some ways that super #$@$neet 3D grafics are a downfall to alot of the games we've been talking about. So much money gets droped on the perfect 3D blade of grass, and nothing goes in to game play.