The Official Headless iMac Thread

[Ramuman]

Well it seems to almost be a certainty that Jobs will debut the headless iMac for HTPC applications in a few hours. Let's discuss it here. Early speculation from thinksecret.com:
http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0501expo6.html

[MrDigital]

I'll discuss it when I see it. :) A $500 play-Mac would be neat though, depending on the speed. I'm assuming it will have at least a 1.2ghz G4 and 256MB of RAM. Say a 40GB drive?

Depending on how cool it looks (and I have high hopes given that it's coming from Apple) I might buy one just for shiz and giggles, but I wouldn't spent more than $500 on one.

This is a long time coming.

-MrD

[Ramuman]

Yup...I agree...except the buying part (no money in the piggy bank :p). I know if Apple does it, they'll do it right.

[ImaNihilist]

It's hard to beat the cool look of some of the SFF HTPCs out there and the kinds you can build with say, an AHANIX case. I also love some of the new IWILL SFFs.

I'm not sure this is really Apple's market. Maybe if they can produce an OS or OS variant that beats down Media Center 2005. That wouldn't really be to hard to do...

Time will tell.

[MrDigital]

Originally posted by ImaNihilist
It's hard to beat the cool look of some of the SFF HTPCs out there and the kinds you can build with say, an AHANIX case. I also love some of the new IWILL SFFs.

SFF PC's are neat, no doubt, but not really my thing. They are certainly cute but I wouldn't consider them stylish. Certainly not in the realm of Apple.

But we'll see how Apple fares. What time is the keynote presentation?

-MrD

[Ramuman]

I agree, a lot of SFF cases are just gaudy to me but then again I'm not one for case windows, lights and what not. Apple, imho, designs the best looking computers and peripherals in the world.

Keynote won't be shown live (it's over already), but www.apple.com/store ....flash iPod and iMac Mini :) - good luck actually getting into the site.

[MrDigital]

from MacCentral.com
Encased in brushed metal, the new Mac mini features a square shape with rounded edges and is somewhat similar in appearance to an Apple AC power adapter. It features a slot-loading CD-RW/DVD-ROM Combo drive, USB 2.0, FireWire 400, DVI and VGA connectivity and a headphone jack.

Jobs describes the Mac mini and BYODKM: Bring Your Own Display, Keyboard and Mouse. The Mac mini works just fine with Apple's peripherals, of course, or you can use other industry-standard peripherals.

The Mac mini comes in two models -- a 1.25GHz, 40GB G4 system for $499 and an 80GB 1.42GHz G4 system for $599. Both are coming on January 22, 2005.

Damn, I was close. 1.25ghz and 40gb. No specs for the RAM but in that price range 256MB is almost guaranteed.

Now to get a pic of it. :)

-MrD

[MrDigital]

Apple Press Release
The 1.25 GHz Mac mini, for a suggested retail price of $499 (US),
includes:
-- 1.25 GHz PowerPC G4 processor;
-- 256MB of 333 MHz DDR SDRAM, expandable to 1GB;
-- 40GB Ultra ATA hard drive;
-- Combo (DVD-ROM/CD-RW) optical drive;
-- ATI Radeon 9200 graphics processor with 32MB video memory;
-- One FireWire 400 and two USB 2.0 ports;
-- 10/100 BASE-T Ethernet networking and 56K V.92 modem;
-- Internal support for AirPort Extreme wireless networking and Bluetooth;
-- DVI or VGA out (adapter included), composite/S-video out with optional
adapter; and
-- Built-in speaker and headphone/line out.

The 1.42 GHz Mac mini, for a suggested retail price of $599 (US),
includes:
-- 1.42 GHz PowerPC G4 processor;
-- 256MB of 333 MHz DDR SDRAM, expandable to 1GB;
-- 80GB Ultra ATA hard drive;
-- Combo (DVD-ROM/CD-RW) optical drive;
-- ATI Radeon 9200 graphics processor with 32MB video memory;
-- One FireWire 400 and two USB 2.0 ports;
-- 10/100 BASE-T Ethernet networking and 56K V.92 modem;
-- Internal support for AirPort Extreme wireless networking and Bluetooth;
-- DVI or VGA out (adapter included), composite/S-video out with optional
adapter; and
-- Built-in speaker and headphone/line out.


I wonder if 197mhz (weird upgrade) is worth an extra $100.

EDIT: "two-inches tall and weighing only 2.9 pounds"

I saw a small pic of it on the Apple Store but now I can't reconnect!

-MrD

[Ramuman]

Originally posted by MrDigital
Damn, I was close. 1.25ghz and 40gb. No specs for the RAM but in that price range 256MB is almost guaranteed.

Now to get a pic of it. :)

-MrD

There's a pic of both on the front page. I'm sure sure about the idea of a shuffle only iPod, but hey if it works, it works. The iMac mini is sexy, and frikin small...much thinner than any SFF PC. It's less than half the size of the G4 Cube :eek:

EDIT: The iPod shuffle is the sleekest thumbdrive as well...I didn't realize it was that small.

EDIT2: $100 is sorta pricey for a 512MB mp3 player considering such options exist for thumbdrives already, but I'm sure its integrated and designed well.

[MrDigital]

Originally posted by Ramuman
There's a pic of both on the front page. I'm sure sure about the idea of a shuffle only iPod, but hey if it works, it works. The iMac mini is sexy, and frikin small...much thinner than any SFF PC. It's about half the size of the G4 Cube :eek:

So there is.. and you had me going through the store. :mad:

http://www.apple.com/macmini/

-MrD

[irwincur]

No component out. When are these companies going to learn. Up to this point the great majority of HDTV sets sold are component only, some with DVI, few that are soley DVI.

[Ramuman]

Originally posted by irwincur
No component out. When are these companies going to learn. Up to this point the great majority of HDTV sets sold are component only, some with DVI, few that are soley DVI.

DVI has component analog built in. Something like this does the trick:
http://www.svideo.com/hdtvaiwr8500.html

For S-Video and Composite:
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore?productLearnMore=M9267G/A

I would have liked to have seen digital audio out (Toslink or Coax), oh well.

A pretty good price when you consider its a full featured computer in a very very small package.

[Mr Cherry]

Looks like an update to their Cubes. Except price is much better this time.

The Ipod Shuffle is also incedible small and stylish.

[ImaNihilist]

It's neat, but I can't really see the purpose. It seems like a product with an identity crisis. Don't get me wrong, I'm no Apple basher, even though sometimes I think I come off as one. I am in LOVE with the Apple design team. Sometimes I just think that maybe they shouldn't be designing computers...maybe they should make TVs or refrigerators--or something.

I mean, I like the idea of a $500 computer. That's fantastic. The cheaper computers get, the more people that can afford them and I really think that's a great thing. Kudos really to Apple for trying to reach out there. It's got some performance in it's own right too. The thing is, it's got a DVI connection, and doesn't come with a monitor, mouse, or keyboard. That strikes me as strange. Think about it for a second. Anyone who can actually USE a DVI connection would probably want a better PC. After all, they have that expensive HDTV or really sweet 23" LCD. I would think that in a $500 system they would throw in something like S-VIDEO and composite connections. That just seems more logical to me. Sure, you can buy adapters for this and that, but that's just more money. Seems to be that by the time you are done getting the things needed to make this thing into a full-functioning system, you are slowly creeping up into iMac prices. It seems ot have a strange spot even in Apple's own lineup, at least to me.

I mean, it's got a small HDD, so you aren't really going to make this into your Tivo box for the TV. There's no video input. You can't play games on an ATI 9200. It's like a HTPC that can...browse the internet? Maybe I'm missing something.

It almost strikes me as a gimmick in a way. You've got this basic system for a low price, but there is a catch: all the accessories to take advantage of it and make it work, cost extra. In some cases, the case of hooking it up to an HDTV, the extra cost is more than the unit itself. Sure, I know someone is going to tell me, "But I can get a cheap 17" with DVI, blah, blah, blah." That's true, but why would you really want to do that? Why not just get an eMac, or maybe a less physically attractive Dell deal with a 17" LCD? This strikes me as an Apple product that won't be around for long.

When I think HTPC, I want something I can hook up to my TV. I want something with a big hard drive so I can use some kind of Tivo functionality, or maybe just watch those illegal DVD rips I might have. Maybe I want a great soudcard with digital outputs to hook up to my home stereo. I'll probably want to see what it looks like to play Half-Life 2 on the big screen TV. Maybe that's just me, but that's what I think about when I think HTPC and the like.

This Mac mini just strikes me as nothing more than last years iMac...without the monitor.

[MrDigital]

Originally posted by ImaNihilist
This Mac mini just strikes me as nothing more than last years iMac...without the monitor.

Didn't last year's iMac cost $1300? I guess it's cheaper. :)

And aren't most Tivo's only 40GB? At least they were at one point. So I'm not sure what the beef with the storage is. 40GB will hold a decent amount of videos, especially with illegal DVD divx rips coming in at around 700MB.

I'm not entirely sure what I'd use it for, but that hasn't stopped me from buying crap in the past.

-MrD

[ImaNihilist]

Originally posted by MrDigital
Didn't last year's iMac cost $1300? I guess it's cheaper. :)

And aren't most Tivo's only 40GB? At least they were at one point. So I'm not sure what the beef with the storage is. 40GB will hold a decent amount of videos, especially with illegal DVD divx rips coming in at around 700MB.

I'm not entirely sure what I'd use it for, but that hasn't stopped me from buying crap in the past.

-MrD

Hehe. I'm saying it's like buying last year's iMac TODAY. Like, if you were to get it off eBay. You know, last year's iMac spec wise..

Tivo's do start at 40GB. But that's 40GB JUST FOR Tivo storage. You know, with an OS and other computer stuff...well, 40GB goes pretty fast. Plus, you don't have any TV input, so you can't really use it as a Tivo unless you get some USB/Firewire toys to play with it.

Haha. Your last point there is the good one. I do that all the time.

[Ramuman]

Again, DVI doesn't mean you can only use one DVI-D monitors, there are adapters (and Apple sells many of them) for all sorts of outputs from DVI (Component, Composite, S-video, standard DB15, etc.)

I think Apple's idea with this is to capture PC users. I walk into a store and say...wow that's one sexy Mac, and it's cheap. I can also use the keyboard, mouse and monitor I already have just like if I were to buy this Dell over here. (Of course, the same could be said of any Mac, but this pricepoint makes it more the case).

[irwincur]

DVI has component analog built in. Something like this does the trick:

Not always. Sure DVI-A can but real TV style DVI does not carry component. DVI-I (PC style) can but in this case it is rare as only two lines of cards support it - the 9500/9600 and the 9700/9800.

Not to mention the video card in this system is not officially on the list for the ATI dongle. I think that someone over at Avsforum got it working but it is not official and I doubt this would be an easy task with a Mac.



Apple may have had some foresight. Considering that they use a stock 9200 I doubt it will work. However after looking at it, it may be able to work with a normal VGA - Component transcoder. Still sucks that Component is always overlooked for machines like this. Have to cludge something together to get it to work.

[iwantatransam]

it comes with a DVI-VGA adapter. I think it should come with a ps2 to usb adapter for the keyboard if they are trying to get people to use thier PC parts. but other than that I think its pretty slick. Im thinking about getting one to play with OSX

[WildWeasel]

1) No matter what else I say, it is freaking cool, at least in principle.

2) 2 USB ports? That's it?? KB + mouse and they're gone. That leaves one more port, if your other peripherals even use firewire.

3) The SFF bit is really cool, and is no doubt engineered very well. Still, they could have fit a lot more power (and more ports - USB, video out, sound out) into that $499 price point by making it just big enough to use standard desktop parts. Of course, this is based on the assumption that the Mac mini uses SO-DIMMs, 2.5" hard drives, and lappie-thin opticals.

[Ramuman]

Ok, first of all, this isn't just a HTPC, so name any video card that has component outs built in. Second, it's 6"x6"x2"... how does anyone reasonably expect more things to be packed into this package? It doesn't have some 200 MHz G3. They're cooling a 1.4 GHz G4 in this size - that's amazing - and you can get a DVD-RW drive (Superdrive). If it uses standard desktop parts, it'd be at least 3 times as tall and waste a lot of space.

It's easy to cram a ton of these things on a 12x14 motherboard that is this tall with just the RAM (never mind the CPU HSF, even for a P3 Tulatin or what have you).

As far as USB...nearly every Apple component that goes on your desktop has more USB outputs than inputs (monitors, keyboards etc.). You can also get Bluetooth or a hub.

Name anything at this price, near this size that has what you guys want this to have.

It's not even SFF...it's about 1/3rd a PC SFF box.

Finally, Apple sells a S-Video and Composite adapter for it - component probably is possible in this case.

[Bearded Kirklander]

Too many models. Much confusion. :eek:

New Mac Mini looks promising for a simple setup, no?

[AstroCreep]

Best pic ever:

http://images.apple.com/macmini/images/designstack20050111.gif

EDIT: In case you can't tell, that 7 of the new Mac-Minis stacked up next to a 'real' PC.

[MrDigital]

Originally posted by AstroCreep
Best pic ever:

http://images.apple.com/macmini/images/designstack20050111.gif

EDIT: In case you can't tell, that 7 of the new Mac-Minis stacked up next to a 'real' PC.

That's not even a 'real' PC.. it's an HP! :D Seriously, HP desktops use smaller cases and MicroATX boards.

So that's 7 mac mini's vs. a mini-tower, not even the basic mid-tower most custom builders use.

-MrD

[AstroCreep]

Originally posted by MrDigital
That's not even a 'real' PC.. it's an HP! :D Seriously, HP desktops use smaller cases and MicroATX boards.

So that's 7 mac mini's vs. a mini-tower, not even the basic mid-tower most custom builders use.

-MrD

Yeah, I just found the pic/sizes to be entertaining. ;)

Seriously though, that is the thing that would get me to use/familiarize myself with the 'Mac-World'; a good price point for what appears to be a decent system.

BTW, it does turn out that at that price it will be 256MB, but it's upgradable to 1GB. ;)

[JabberJaw]

1) I paid $500 for my xbox and a few games, same for ps2, so even if thought of as just another console box, this could have a home in my tv room.

2) Apple had quality problems with the cube and the titanium notebook due to problems manufacturing cutting edge designs, so I'd probably hold off purchasing for a couple months and avoid potential "early adopter blues". I'm sure there are plenty of rabid apple fans to fill the order books in the meantime.

3) If I was a rich guy I'd try to cluster a few of these babies just for fun. Maybe NeXt year they'll be cheap enough on ebay.

4) Ju$t what I needed, another iWant to lust after!

[Bearded Kirklander]

Only 2 USB ports = Need for USB hub to be used, perhaps. :)

[ImaNihilist]

Originally posted by Ramuman
It's not even SFF...it's about 1/3rd a PC SFF box.

Not only in size, but in functionality, expandability, and performance.

[Bearded Kirklander]

It still looks purday, don't it? :D

[Mr Cherry]

Originally posted by Bearded Kirklander
Only 2 USB ports = Need for USB hub to be used, perhaps. :)

Most mac keyboards have two usb plugs on them, helpful if you are just upgrading from another mac.

[Bearded Kirklander]

Originally posted by Mr Cherry
Most mac keyboards have two usb plugs on them, helpful if you are just upgrading from another mac. That's cool. Hopefully they are USB 2.0 capable. :)

[Mr Cherry]

Originally posted by Bearded Kirklander
That's cool. Hopefully they are USB 2.0 capable. :)

I think they are, but they aren't powered plugs.

[Bearded Kirklander]

Originally posted by Mr Cherry
I think they are, but they aren't powered plugs. At least it is possible to buy a powered USB 2.0 hub to plug in there if ya need to though.

[Ramuman]

Originally posted by ImaNihilist
Not only in size, but in functionality, expandability, and performance.

So you want something this size with a 100W Prescott in there and PCI slots? This isn't a gaming machine so why bother upgrading it? You think people that buy those Dell's with integrated graphics are loving that well balanced P4 2.8GHz, 256 MB of RAM and integrated graphics - or will upgrade it?

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

[ImaNihilist]

Originally posted by Ramuman
You can't have your cake and eat it too.

I get to have whatever I want. Even things that I don't want now, if I think I'll want them in the future...I HAVE THEM. I RULE.

Don't tell me what kind of cake I can have, or if and when I can eat it. I do what I want, *****.

I'd rather have something like this with an A64 and an AGP slot.
http://www.iwill.net/product_imgs/40/ZPC64_OpenFront.jpg

Granted, it's larger, but more functional as well.

[Ramuman]

Fair enough :confused:

[MrDigital]

Dude has everyone seen the video showing how to take these apart? You use some sort of paint scraper or something and it just pops right off.

Apple warranty says that if you don't fork up anything inside, you are still under warranty. Tiiiiight.

I wonder if Apples still need specific memory. They used to be kind of flaky about brands. Crucial always worked though.

I lost the link to the video. I saved it though, 700k. PM me with your email addy if you want it.

I still want one.

EDIT: Weee, post 2500.

-MrD

[PCJ]

This is great. You pick up a mac mini with the lowest specs for $500, a 17" CRT for $70 and a keyboard and mouse for $30. That gets you a $600 mac, they've never been that cheap. And believe me, 256mb is enough for apple. My iBook has 1.2 ghz and 256mb, which is comparable to the mac mini, and it's enough for everything except games.

The only thing I worry about is the HDD. When I got my iBook with a 30gb HDD, 12gb were already used. I cleared off 1gb by getting rid of the 2 crappy games that came with the pc, but my idea of getting ut2004 for mac (5.5gb just for the game, and another 5gb before you know it) vanished immediately.

[Bearded Kirklander]

But at $799, the eMac seems to come fairly close, considering you the mouse, keyboard, monitor and speaks all built right in.

[PCJ]

Originally posted by Bearded Kirklander
But at $799, the eMac seems to come fairly close, considering you the mouse, keyboard, monitor and speaks all built right in.
for many people, there is a HUGE difference between 600 and 800 bucks.

people like me

[Bearded Kirklander]

Originally posted by PCJ
for many people, there is a HUGE difference between 600 and 800 bucks. people like me I can understand that. Guess I'm thinkin' that you do get a lot for $800 with the eMac, is all. :)

[freedon]

For $500 + tax, it sounds fair. Might consider getting one, have never used Mac OS X. I can use my keyboard/mouse that are usb and just plug in my monitor..don't need more accesories :)