Another Forums thread

[rock]

My company is finally listening to me and looking to implement some forums for tech support and to get rid of our old mailing lists. It'll start small, but we have like 500,000 users, so could grow pretty large over time.

The task of recommending the right software falls to me. We'll be administering what we can, buy prefer not to host it on our servers.

I do like the vBulletin they're using here. I was a mod on another board (now defunct) that used phpBB. I liked that and it was pretty configurable, but I'm worried about scalability. Once we had a few hundred users there, it seemed to get a bit bogged down. The current opinion of my boss is anything using MySQL would be fine with him.

So, what's the best forum software? Commercial is okay, after all this is for a software company.

And I'm not in charge of finding the host, but recommendations there too would be nice.

[Bearded Kirklander]

Invision Power Board has a Forum Hosting service that looks pretty interesting:

http://www.invisionzone.com/

I've thought about it for a fun side project, but have not yet taken the plunge.

[ua549]

I highly recommend vBulletin. It handles medium sized boards such as SharkyForums with a few hundred concurrent online users as well as large boards such as HowardForums with 5,000+ concurrent users (283,000+ members). Software cost is not significant at less than $200. Communications circuits will be your most significant cost.

I doubt that phpBB can handle the number of users you have.

[rock]

Invision Power Board has a Forum Hosting service that looks pretty interesting:

http://www.invisionzone.com/

I've thought about it for a fun side project, but have not yet taken the plunge.
I've never used IPB boards -- do you know of any commercial sites up there? $75/month doesn't seem too bad, but I have no idea what the bandwidth requirements will be until we get started.

[Bearded Kirklander]

Sorry, rock. I'm about as in the dark as a n00b could be. Perhaps contacting the site folks and asking them if they could point you to some commercial sites that they are hosting would be a good place to start.

I'd help more if I could, but I'm just not well versed in this stuff yet.

[rock]

Thanks. I'll poke around their forum some tomorrow. It's actually laid out similarly to what we have in mind.

[Thermo]

Snitz with a sql db.

[ace727861986]

My suggestion would be vbulletin also. I am a large fan of vBulletin and own a license my self.

The largest message boards on the internet that have been up for several years do not have a half million users. I am not saying its not possible (and yes I have seen sites that have over 3 million users) but it is rare.

If you wish go look at this site http://www.big-boards.com/ it gives a run down of the largest message boards on the internet and explains some of the hardware that a site of this size will need.

I doubt that phpBB can handle the number of users you have.

As for this comment, I am a lover of vbulletin but for some reason I do not hold this comment to be true. Free or not phpBB is a VERY nice bulletin board and has the ability to handle a LOT more than you would expect. If you look on the site I pasted above the largest message board on the internet is using phpBB something that vBulletin can't even claim.

EDIT: Found some statistics of Gaia online (they are using phpBB).

Who is Online - In total there are 26731 users online :: 22759 Registered, 1932 Hidden and 2040 Guests

Gaia has 305,332,539 articles posted with 2,201,897 registered users.
Most users ever online was 32,499 on Sun Mar 27, 2005 6:24 pm

So in my humble opionion the above statement made by UA would be false :D. <3 UA.

[ace727861986]

I've never used IPB boards -- do you know of any commercial sites up there? $75/month doesn't seem too bad, but I have no idea what the bandwidth requirements will be until we get started.


It all depends on how many users you have and how image heavy your site is. 75 a month would get you almost a dedicated server from a place like servermatrix.com (last i checked their cheapest hosting was around 90 bux for the lowend dedicated server).

Personally I have a few websites with about 10-15 of my friends that post fairly regularly and I avg between 100-300MB a month. Some more some less.

[ua549]

I'm not sure, but I was under the impression that SharkyForums used to use phpBB. Watever that original software was, it could not handle multiple users attempting to post to the same thread at the same time. If it happened, the thread would go to that great bit bucket in the sky never to be seen again. The amazing thing is that with only a hundred or two users online at the same time, the problem happened frequently.

[rock]

I'm not sure, but I was under the impression that SharkyForums used to use phpBB. Watever that original software was, it could not handle multiple users attempting to post to the same thread at the same time. If it happened, the thread would go to that great bit bucket in the sky never to be seen again. The amazing thing is that with only a hundred or two users online at the same time, the problem happened frequently.
Yeah, we had problems like that at one point on the phpBB board I was on too. It took a while to figure out the forum software was the problem and not the users. Well, usually.

[ace727861986]

If it was phpBB it must have been a REALLY REALLY old version of it because to my knowledge I have never even heard of anything like this happening. I would have never even thought of a forum having problems like that. But as of right now phpBB has no real afaik problems. Plus they are getting ready to launch a new version.

What was the version if it was phpBB i would be curious to see it.

[rock]

The largest message boards on the internet that have been up for several years do not have a half million users. I am not saying its not possible (and yes I have seen sites that have over 3 million users) but it is rare.
BTW, we have over half a million users of our software, but I don't expect anywhere near that load on the support forums for a number of reasons. I wouldn't be surprised to get into the thousands pretty quickly, though.

[ace727861986]

Yeah any of the major bulletin board providers (phpBB, IPB, or vBulletin) would be fine.

I would suggest vbulletin though.

If you don't mind me asking what kinda software you are providing

[rock]

Yeah any of the major bulletin board providers (phpBB, IPB, or vBulletin) would be fine.

I would suggest vbulletin though.

If you don't mind me asking what kinda software you are providing
Thanks -- looks like vBulletin is getting the highest recommendations.

As for our software, I've generally never thought it appropriate to talk about the products in detail here, but at a high level one product line are numerical libraries and the other is a 4GL development environment.

[Bearded Kirklander]

I like the default emoticons in Invision a bit better. :p

[rock]

Yes, the default vBulletin icons leave something to be desired. For my purposes though on a commercial board, I don't think we need little grinning devils everywhere. http://forums.invisionpower.com/style_images/1/folder_post_icons/icon9.gif

Also, their 'code' tags aren't very clean.

[rock]

After further research this morning, I'm going to recommend vBulletin and f5hosting. I'm a little worried about spending a lot of time setting it up just to upgrade to vB3.5 when it's released, but that probably shouldn't be too big of a concern right now.

[ace727861986]

After further research this morning, I'm going to recommend vBulletin and f5hosting. I'm a little worried about spending a lot of time setting it up just to upgrade to vB3.5 when it's released, but that probably shouldn't be too big of a concern right now.


Do not be concerned about upgrading. If you only do template edits there will be no problem at all upgrading to 3.5. Plus the vBulletin team will work with you there support system is very nice and they are always very helpful. As for just setting up the board you will not have that big of problem at all. I can install vbulletin in 5 min flat without a problem. As for customizing the template to match your website that might take a little be more time.

[Bearded Kirklander]

I don't even know what "Code" tags are. I'm such a n00b. :)

[ua549]

Code tags surround text that should not be reformated such as eliminating repetitive spaces, leading spaces, etc.

[Bearded Kirklander]

Cool! Thanks. :)

BTW, what is f5 hosting?

[ua549]

www.f5hosting.co.uk

[Bearded Kirklander]

Oh. I did not think it was a hosting company. Thought it was some special type of forum hosting. Sorry about that. Sometimes I'm pretty dense. :doh!:

:)

[rock]

www.f5hosting.co.uk
Actually, for the US it's http://www.f5hosting.com/


And for BK, this is a code tag in use. Without it, the code gets all left-justified and is impossible to read.
using System;

namespace HelloWorldConsole {
/// <summary>
/// Summary description for Class1.
/// </summary>
class Class1 {
/// <summary>
/// The main entry point for the application.
/// </summary>
static void Main(string[] args) {
String s = "Hellow World.";
Console.WriteLine(s);
}
}
}

[Bearded Kirklander]

Cool. Thanks for the info. :)

[I4one]

I'm not sure, but I was under the impression that SharkyForums used to use phpBB. Watever that original software was, it could not handle multiple users attempting to post to the same thread at the same time. If it happened, the thread would go to that great bit bucket in the sky never to be seen again. The amazing thing is that with only a hundred or two users online at the same time, the problem happened frequently.
Yeah, we had problems like that at one point on the phpBB board I was on too. It took a while to figure out the forum software was the problem and not the users. Well, usually.

just b/c it's relevant to this topic - Here - Lately only - I've noticed a "hanging" when posting/editing a post and it always seems to occur when it's a fast moving/many post thread (but I can't imagine more than 10-20 viewers , viewing all at once in that timeframe - and perhaps 1 or 2 members likely trying to post at the same time).

The thread never disappears, thank goodness, but I quickly copy the text and close my browser and reload - and I'll notice someone just got done posting upon my return, and then my post/edit goes through quickly without 'hanging' -- for whatever that's worth. It could be my cable provider/service I guess.

[Bearded Kirklander]

I have to say, the default skin of PHPBB 2.x is pretty darn nice. I don't like their Quick Reply thing, but overall, it is one good lookin' setup. Easy to read, easy to see the New Posts icon, etc. Not as configurable that I can see so far, but still. For free, it ain't bad.

[rock]

BK, I thought you were already sold on the IPB stuff. Can't decide? Maybe you'll end up running the same forum in 4 different versions ? :D

[PCJ]

I would definately go with a proprietary solution here. 500000 potential users is a lot. Look for a no-bull solution that cuts out all of the nice graphics, and makes it look like .txt with links and a box to write stuff in. There are several solutions that use as little traffic as possible.

that way, you can also host it internally without needing a hardcore server for the database.

[Bearded Kirklander]

BK, I thought you were already sold on the IPB stuff. Can't decide? Maybe you'll end up running the same forum in 4 different versions ? :D
lol... Maybe just two - one with Invision Power Board 1.3 (the last free version, I believe) and one with PHPBB 2.x

It would seem that IPB has better security and guest controls, at least with the free services I've been looking at.

With PHPBB it seems like I will have to set permissions on a topic by topic basis, I can't just say "You have to be a member to post" and have that apply to every forum topic. I think I have to do it one at a time, which is kind of annoying.

With IPB, I believe you can set it so after 5 minutes, a post cannot be edited, which I kind of like in terms of the level of control it gives the admin. But for the life of me, I can't seem to find an easy way to prevent polls from being created. Wacky, repetitive, drill-down type of admin controls.

PHPBB seems easier to deal with. Like adjusting forum order - it is SOOOO much easier in PHPBB, as is making new forums and categories. But in some other areas, PHPBB feels n00bish and over-simple.

I'd like to learn how to prevent animated GIF's for Avatars and smilies and stuff too, just so I could learn how. I think IPB has some anti-flash stuff, but in a lot of areas, the IPB screens feel very techie and the descriptions lack understandable details.

And what is with the fact that you can't do context sensitive help like you can in other Windows programs? I wanna be able to hit F1 and have the relevant help screen pop up and describe exactly what is up on the admin panel page I'm looking at. Is that too much to ask?

I'll just keep on tinkering, I guess.

[rock]

I don't know if you'll be able to prevent animated gifs from being used. Afterall, to the file server and html, they're just files with a .gif extension. When rendered in the browser, they're animated. That seems hard to detect (and a little strict unless there's something specific you're looking to avoid).

[Bearded Kirklander]

I guess I could disallow GIF extensions in IPB, but that does seem kinda lame. It would probably be easier to just bug users to change their Avatar if it was flashing red and green or something. :D

I'm more interested in learning how to control things rather than actually being a control freak in practice. I'm not even sure I'll even try to get folks to come by and visit the forums. Right now I'm just wanting to learn how to do things and familiarize myself with what is involved.

I'm not sure I ever, ever want to mess with the HTML templates. Oh man, that stuff looks complicated. :eek:

[rock]

Yeah, I know when we get to setting up our forums (the CEO just got my recommendations last night) that I'll have to figure out how to get our website's CSS stuff into vBulletin to look consistent. I'm kind of dreading this -- give me Java or Fortran anyday over this web stuff!

[Bearded Kirklander]

Best of luck with it. I no longer have the drive to do that kinda stuff that I used to. I'm more into the point and click of the admin stuff instead of the hardcore skin customizing via CSS/DHTML/XML type stuff.

Give me the classic 3.x HTML standard and Note Pad and I'm good to go. :p

[freedon]

I'm just curious, how's it turning out?

[rock]

We're still getting things set up. This is going remarkably quickly compared to the rate of other projects. The IT group has purchased vBulleting and are working with the hosting providers to get it installed. Once it's up, it'll be turned over to me as the main admin to start configuration. I expect that to happen some time this week.

[JakeDeez]

Maybe I am out of the loop, but is Verio still good for hosting?