The Changing Face of Alienware Notebooks

[ImaNihilist]

http://www.tgdaily.com/2005/12/08/alienware-changingface/

The final goodbye to the high end market, and the final transition to cheap crap. Yaay!

[mynameis]

I like some of their current mid-range offerings. I never could see myself spending over $3k on a laptop.

[ImaNihilist]

My guess is they will actually start making their own notebooks now. They have the money.

[Ashpool]

No big deal.

They were generally crap anyway.

[Soul Assassin]

No big deal.

They were generally crap anyway.

In what way? Having quality parts? Good construction? A decent warranty? American support? Neat looking products?

Or is it because they cost more for all of the above?

Let me guess, you think BMW is crap too.

[ImaNihilist]

In what way? Having quality parts? Good construction? A decent warranty? American support? Neat looking products?

Or is it because they cost more for all of the above?

Let me guess, you think BMW is crap too.
Hahahahaha. BMW makes cars. Expensive performance cars with all inclusive 4-year, 50,000 mile warranties.

Alienware buys notebooks from another vendor, slaps cheap paint and plastic on them, puts a light on it and gives you a standard 90-day warranty. Alienware isn't even that expensive anymore. Just a few precent more than say, Dell.

Read the article.

[pudad]

I thought alienware was crap in general. I could build anything those assholes make, for 10x less. Now take a powerbook or thinkpad -> they have character and build quality. Look at dells business class, they are cheap, and reliable. Who the hell wants to pay alienware prices?

[Soul Assassin]

Hahahahaha. BMW makes cars. Expensive performance cars with all inclusive 4-year, 50,000 mile warranties.

Alienware buys notebooks from another vendor, slaps cheap paint and plastic on them, puts a light on it and gives you a standard 90-day warranty. Alienware isn't even that expensive anymore. Just a few precent more than say, Dell.

Read the article.

I did read the article. Just because they are becoming crap doesn't mean they always were.

I was responding to the statement "They were generally crap anyway." as is indicated by my quote. That statement is past tense, not present/future tense as the article is stating.

Pretty simple if you ask me.

Besides, they offer 3 year warranties, and as I said, it's not outsourced to India.

[ImaNihilist]

I did read the article. Just because they are becoming crap doesn't mean they always were.

I was responding to the statement "They were generally crap anyway." as is indicated by my quote. That statement is past tense, not present/future tense as the article is stating.

Pretty simple if you ask me.

Besides, they offer 3 year warranties, and as I said, it's not outsourced to India.
They have been going downhill for a while now. Everyone "offers" 3 year warranties, but few are standard. It's outsourced to Cuba...more or less--Miami, same thing.

The only one I can think of that actually builds quality systems today, is Falcon Northwest. Too bad their markup is ridiculous.

[Soul Assassin]

I thought alienware was crap in general. I could build anything those assholes make, for 10x less. Now take a powerbook or thinkpad -> they have character and build quality. Look at dells business class, they are cheap, and reliable. Who the hell wants to pay alienware prices?

Powerbook? You mean like titanium that wears off, hinges that break, an aftermarket of 3rd party parts that would make automotive companies cringe? Wireless quality that's just about as bad as one can get? Keyboards that need to be replaced more often than on any other brand ever?

I could go on and on. The last thing Apple products have is build quality. Great character, definitely. Great design, of course. But build quality? Not on your life.

[ImaNihilist]

I thought alienware was crap in general. I could build anything those assholes make, for 10x less. Now take a powerbook or thinkpad -> they have character and build quality. Look at dells business class, they are cheap, and reliable. Who the hell wants to pay alienware prices?
Check their prices today. 5 years ago they were pricey, today not so much. Then again, 5 years ago they really had the good stuff.

[Soul Assassin]

They have been going downhill for a while now. Everyone "offers" 3 year warranties, but they aren't standard. It's outsourced to Cuba...more or less--Miami, same thing.

Yeah, nice one, equating American citizens to Communist in Cuba. I'm sure the Cuban refugees in Miami will thank you profusely for being so nice.

Trying to find reasons to discredit Alienware simply because they make decent products is ridiculous. So they charge more, who cares? If you're that much against capitalism maybe you should move to Cuba and do phone support for Alienware.

Overcharging != crap. Crap is crap, expensive products can be crap or they can be good, but the two have nothing to do with each other.

[ImaNihilist]

Yeah, nice one, equating American citizens to Communist in Cuba. I'm sure the Cuban refugees in Miami will thank you profusely for being so nice.

Trying to find reasons to discredit Alienware simply because they make decent products is ridiculous. So they charge more, who cares? If you're that much against capitalism maybe you should move to Cuba and do phone support for Alienware.

Overcharging != crap. Crap is crap, expensive products can be crap or they can be good, but the two have nothing to do with each other.
rofl.

What are you even talking about?

[Soul Assassin]

rofl.

What are you even talking about?

I try to use basic grade 5 grammar to reach the widest audience, so if you can't follow I apologize. I do know a special needs teacher that I could possibly bring in to break it down for you, if you'd like?

So let me try once more, in a single sentence so you can try and understand: Alienware doesn't make crap products.

[ImaNihilist]

Yeah, nice one, equating American citizens to Communist in Cuba. I'm sure the Cuban refugees in Miami will thank you profusely for being so nice.What? What are you talking about? Alienware is based out of Miami. Have you ever been in Miami? I've been to their factory in Miami (which is a BEAUTIFUL BUILDING). I used to live in South Fla. When you call them, a lot of times you speak to someone who isn't so good with English, and doesn' t really know what they are talking about. That was very different years ago.
Trying to find reasons to discredit Alienware simply because they make decent products is ridiculous. So they charge more, who cares? If you're that much against capitalism maybe you should move to Cuba and do phone support for Alienware. Ummm. What? Why do I hate capitalism? Why would I want to move to Cuba and do phone support for Alienware? What are you even talking about?
Overcharging != crap. Crap is crap, expensive products can be crap or they can be good, but the two have nothing to do with each other. Huh? Who said anything about this? What?

Alienware has gone downhill since they started getting government contracts about 2 years ago. They no longer use quality parts they used to. They use cheap PSUs, extremely cheap desktop cases...with I think painted plywood on the bottom, stock Intel coolers on Prescotts, non-enthusiast motherboards, reference cards, etc. They were a very, very different company 5-years ago. They used to compete directly with Falcon Northwest, and now they are more competetive with say, Dell, although at a higher price. That's all I was saying. I don't know what you are talking about.

The only reason I even bring it up at all is because...and I don't really know how it happened, but I do a lot of support for Alienware systems. This summer I had a few of them in my closet. A friend of mine who had one kept having trouble, and I guess a few other people in his guild had Alienware's giving them trouble, which were out of warranty (or 1 still was), but Alienware couldn't give any turn around other than "up to four weeks." 2 systems just needed new coolers, 1 needed a new PSU, 1 had a stock overclock that was too high and the system was actually unstable.

Because they use a sliding scale they start out cheap, and are cheap, but then the price scale goes up on things like the ALX, but the quality is still cheap. However, you do get a free t-shirt if you spend like $4,000.

When you go from competing with Falcon Northwest, to competing with Dell you've completely changed your products, your image, and your entire business strategy.

[ImaNihilist]

I try to use basic grade 5 grammar to reach the widest audience, so if you can't follow I apologize. I do know a special needs teacher that I could possibly bring in to break it down for you, if you'd like?
lol.

[Soul Assassin]

What? What are you talking about? Alienware is based out of Miami. Have you ever been in Miami? I've been to their factory in Miami (which is a BEAUTIFUL BUILDING). I used to live in South Fla. When you call them, a lot of times you speak to someone who isn't so good with English, and doesn' t really know what they are talking about. That was very different years ago.

Ummm. What? Why do I hate capitalism? Why would I want to move to Cuba and do phone support for Alienware? What are you even talking about?
Huh? Who said anything about this? What?

You are aware there's more people in this discussion than you and I, right?
Pudad said "I could build anything those assholes make, for 10x less." They're assholes for charging a lot of money? Sounds like anti-capitalism to me. I suppose I could make efforts to quote more people and respond specifically to them, but it's a public forum and it's late, and I'm tired.

As for your Miami statement, Miami isn't Cuba, and Cuban immigrants in Miami will probably slit your throat for saying it is. I have been to Miami. Have you ever been to Cuba? I have. Beautiful place, not very free though. I also find saying that Miami = Cuba to be very disrespectful knowing what many Cubans have gone through to escape to the US.

Alienware has gone downhill since they started getting government contracts about 2 years ago. They no longer use quality parts they used to. They use cheap PSUs, extremely cheap desktop cases...with I think painted plywood on the bottom, stock Intel coolers on Prescotts, non-enthusiast motherboards, reference cards, etc. They were a very, very different company 5-years ago. They used to compete directly with Falcon Northwest, and now they are more competetive with say, Dell, although at a higher price. That's all I was saying. I don't know what you are talking about.

Having been through both Dell and Alienware's support on numerous occasions, I can guarantee that it may appear that they are the same as Dell, but it only appears that way. Are there thousands of horror stories about Alienware's support? Of course there is.

Let me give you a nice example, straight from resellerratings:
"1700 dollars wasted. I bought a brand new PC from what I thought was quality. It arrives with a fan that sounds louder than most car engines. ... As far as I am concerned, they did not deliver the PC I ordered. Instead it is a 1700 paperweight."

Yes, because it has a loud fan it's a $1700 paperweight. I'm not too jazzed on using this type of person's opinion on whether Alienware makes quality PCs or not.

The only reason I even bring it up at all is because...and I don't really know how it happened, but I do a lot of support for Alienware systems. This summer I had a few of them in my closet. A friend of mine who had one kept having trouble, and I guess a few other people in his guild had Alienware's giving them trouble, which were out of warranty (or 1 still was), but Alienware couldn't give any turn around other than "up to four weeks." 2 systems just needed new coolers, 1 needed a new PSU, 1 had a stock overclock that was too high and the system was actually unstable.

Because they use a sliding scale they start out cheap, and are cheap, but then the price scale goes up on things like the ALX, but the quality is still cheap. However, you do get a free t-shirt if you spend like $4,000.

When you go from competing with Falcon Northwest, to competing with Dell you've completely changed your products, your image, and your entire business strategy.

As I said in the very first place, I'm not disagreeing that Alienware is going downhill, just as fast as Newegg. I'm not disagreeing that they are becoming Dell/2. I'm not disagreeing with ANY statement other than the ones that indicate that Alienware has generally been crap in the past, since this couldn't be any further from the truth.

[ImaNihilist]

You are a very angry person. Or maybe just a fanboy. Or maybe a little of both.

Cheers. :p

[Soul Assassin]

You are a very angry person. Or maybe just a fanboy. Or maybe a little of both.

Cheers. :p

Nah, just a defender of decent things that people attack because they feel threatened by them. Counter-culture thinking at its finest.

"Everyone thinks Alienwares are so good, I hate them!"
"Everyone thinks iPods are so good, I hate them!"
"Everyone thinks Intel is so good, I hate them!"
~ to infinity.

An anti-fanboy, if anything.

[pudad]

Powerbook? You mean like titanium that wears off, hinges that break, an aftermarket of 3rd party parts that would make automotive companies cringe? Wireless quality that's just about as bad as one can get? Keyboards that need to be replaced more often than on any other brand ever?

I could go on and on. The last thing Apple products have is build quality. Great character, definitely. Great design, of course. But build quality? Not on your life.


You've never owned a powerbook have you. :)

Check their prices today. 5 years ago they were pricey, today not so much. Then again, 5 years ago they really had the good stuff.

Yeah I can only speak of what I have seen in the past. They don't look particularly special. I'd rather just buy a dell business class system.

[pudad]

You are a very angry person. Or maybe just a fanboy. Or maybe a little of both.

Cheers. :p


I means he is a sucker for stuff that doesn't work. :p

[Soul Assassin]

You've never owned a powerbook have you. :)

I've owned a few actually. Went through the old Tibooks like candy. I have no doubt that the newer aluminum ones are better, but that's like saying a car that runs is better than a car that doesn't. When you set your baseline as low as Apple's previous effort, it's easy to beat.

ipods that scratch from dust in the air, cubes that crack from being looked at, batteries that fail extremely quickly, etc.

Apples history of build quality problems is well-renowned, so even people who have never had the pleasure of owning an Apple product are probably aware of their problems.

[ImaNihilist]

I just have to wonder, because you actually mentioned BMW, why is it that PCs have such shitty warranties? I mean, I'd expect 3-year warranties on parts and labor to be an industry STANDARD today. It's gone the complete other way...90 days. What good is 90 days? Even when you get the extended warranties these companies put you out such a long time for the repairs, it's not even worth it. Is that to discourage you from sending it in? If BMW told me I'd have to wait a week for them to fix my car, I'd go apeshit on them.

It seems like the only way to get a REAL warranty is to get an hp or Dell business line product....or do something like throw down $1,000 extra for the kind of warranty you get with Falcon NW. Le sigh.

Why do you think it is that service has more or less dissappeared from the PC industry? Am I the only one who expects something I buy to last more than 90-days? I pretty much base everything electronic I buy on warranty. It's extremely hard to do in the notebook arena. The only one I know of who has a warranty worth a damn is hp for the business notebooks.

[pudad]

I've owned a few actually. Went through the old Tibooks like candy. I have no doubt that the newer aluminum ones are better, but that's like saying a car that runs is better than a car that doesn't. When you set your baseline as low as Apple's previous effort, it's easy to beat.

ipods that scratch from dust in the air, cubes that crack from being looked at, batteries that fail extremely quickly, etc.

Apples history of build quality problems is well-renowned, so even people who have never had the pleasure of owning an Apple product are probably aware of their problems.


well the pbook I had was a aluminum one. But I do agree that apple's build quality should be a lot better. I am thinking that using all of intels hardware will improve it dramatically.

[Johnmcl7]

It seems like the only way to get a REAL warranty is to get an hp or Dell business line product....or do something like throw down $1,000 extra for the kind of warranty you get with Falcon NW. Le sigh.

Why do you think it is that service has more or less dissappeared from the PC industry? Am I the only one who expects something I buy to last more than 90-days? I pretty much base everything electronic I buy on warranty. It's extremely hard to do in the notebook arena. The only one I know of who has a warranty worth a damn is hp for the business notebooks.

The standard Falcon warranty (according to their site) is one year for an overnight service. To extend this to three years it's an extra four hundred dollars.

Comparatively, for Inspiron machines it's a 550 dollar to upgrade to Dell's four year warranty which is a superior onsite service and that's also full accidental damage cover rather than just a standard warranty. I know which I'd rather have.

Alienware mainly use the Clevo chassis barebones, Rock are a UK company which similarly sell their own versions of Clevo barebones machines, but they ship with a three year warranty as standard, and still usually cheaper than the competition.

Service hasn't disappeared, if you want it, you pay for it.

John

[pudad]

The lenovo/IBM thinkpads I'm looking at seem to have good waranties too.

[Ashpool]

The lenovo/IBM thinkpads I'm looking at seem to have good waranties too.

The only problem with that is actually trying to get them to break to begin with :D

I don't know how well Lenovo 'books are and will be, but I know so many people here with Thinkpads that still work for years with 100% original parts

[Soul Assassin]

I just have to wonder, because you actually mentioned BMW, why is it that PCs have such shitty warranties? I mean, I'd expect 3-year warranties on parts and labor to be an industry STANDARD today. It's gone the complete other way...90 days. What good is 90 days? Even when you get the extended warranties these companies put you out such a long time for the repairs, it's not even worth it. Is that to discourage you from sending it in? If BMW told me I'd have to wait a week for them to fix my car, I'd go apeshit on them.

It seems like the only way to get a REAL warranty is to get an hp or Dell business line product....or do something like throw down $1,000 extra for the kind of warranty you get with Falcon NW. Le sigh.

Why do you think it is that service has more or less dissappeared from the PC industry? Am I the only one who expects something I buy to last more than 90-days? I pretty much base everything electronic I buy on warranty. It's extremely hard to do in the notebook arena. The only one I know of who has a warranty worth a damn is hp for the business notebooks.

When you're a seller of goods, service is (or would be if cost-cutting measures didn't exist) the single most expensive aspect of a sale.

Goods are simple. You have something, a widget. Widget costs x amount of dollars to make. You sell widget for x amount of dollars and make profit.

Service, on the other hand, is very difficult to measure. If you sell the same widget to 100 people, 90 people will probably have no problem and the 20% markup you factored in to support them will be pure profit. The other 10 people will have varying degrees of issues and this is where it gets tougher.

How much do you suppose the average tech phone support person makes an hour? $10? I have no idea. Let's say $10 for ease of use. Now, it doesn't matter if the customer bought your cheapest widget or your most expensive widget, you need to pay this TS person $10/hr to provide support.

So let's say Dell can make a PC for $250 and sell it for $350. So they have $100 after production costs to use. Now a certain percentage has to go to pay their employees. Another percentage has to go to marketing. So on and so on until you get to support. By the time support rolls around, you might have $20 to play with. This means that the average customer can get 2 hours of phone support without costing Dell a nickle.

Now, 2 hours of phone support isn't very much. I'd say the average PC user will screw their PC up within 2 weeks let alone 90 days. People clicking here and there and everywhere, it happens.

At the same time people are extremely frugal about spending money on service. They want the part and think it's going to function perfectly no matter what they do to it. So they don't buy any service. I bet most people would drive without insurance too, if it wasn't illegal.

Anyhow, let's compare this to BMW. BMW offers 4 years of total service. How can they do this? Because they don't expect people to screw up their cars the way people screw up their PCs. Think about the average person on a PC. They get on the internet, maybe steal some music, chat with their friends, look for porno, download cursors and wallpaper, etc. And what happens? Along the way they click yes to spyware, yes to trojans, yes to adware, and so on. They purposely or accidentally destroy the functionality of their computer.

Dell knows people will do this and doesn't want to support them for doing so. If BMW knew that people were going to put sugar in their gas tank, overinflate their tires, change the electrical wiring, etc, they sure as hell wouldn't provide total service either.

I think service has decreased for computers because the average computer user is almost 100% ignorant of how a PC works and does stupid things that are a b*tch to fix. Computers also sell for 1/10th of what they did 15 years ago. Companies are run by marketers and stockholders and not engineers.

[PCJ]

The only problem with that is actually trying to get them to break to begin with :D

I don't know how well Lenovo 'books are and will be, but I know so many people here with Thinkpads that still work for years with 100% original parts
Agreed.

By the way, they are still made by IBM. And will be made by IBM for 3-4 years iirc. Lenovo just started slapping their names on them.

And I doubt that ThinkPad quality will go down once Lenovo makes them. They work together very closely with IBM. I know that in Vienna, Lenovo actually has their offices in the IBM building. No idea how this is in other places where IBM is, but I'd guess similarly.

[Ashpool]

Agreed.

By the way, they are still made by IBM. And will be made by IBM for 3-4 years iirc. Lenovo just started slapping their names on them.

And I doubt that ThinkPad quality will go down once Lenovo makes them. They work together very closely with IBM. I know that in Vienna, Lenovo actually has their offices in the IBM building. No idea how this is in other places where IBM is, but I'd guess similarly.

It's the other way around: IBM is putting their names on the laptops and Lenovo is the one that's building them, but only keeping the Think and IBM names for five years. Lenovo also moved their Headquarters to New York State

But you're right, Lenovo and IBM are very close together: IBM owns 19% of Lenovo anyway :D