I don't want to repeat the OT topic here, what I specifically want to know is what you think are the most useful languages to know and where you would go to learn them (assuming you didn't know them already). This looks like it could be a fun forum. http://www.sharkyforums.com/ubb/smile.gif
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As the greatest computer scientist of them all once said:
"I'm not expendable, I'm not stupid and I'm not going."
toonzwile
12-29-2000, 04:41 AM
Originally posted by Avon:
what you think are the most useful languages to know and where you would go to learn them (assuming you didn't know them already). This looks like it could be a fun forum. http://www.sharkyforums.com/ubb/smile.gif
C++ -- learn at any university/college/technical school... pretty much everything nowadays is based on some variation of the C language.
ASP -- Active Server Pages -- all the work of C++ with a buttload of HTML tags and source coding... but, it seems to be the wave of the future, plus ASP certification with virtually any MSCE certification practically guarantees $100K per year, so that should be incentive enough for anybody.
Java -- what would the Net be without Java? its pretty simple to learn, just from reading some of those 'Sam's Teach Yourself (fill in blank) in 24 Hours or 21 Days' books.
Thats all for now, kiddiez... stay tuned for tomorrow when this fun, amazing topic is continued.
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"I have slept many nights in places, with faces distorted
I have eaten the flesh and blood of air but still, I am here!
Though I shall never forget yesterday or today or tomorrow
And all the sorrow, from the blood shed that left many dead
I want you to know are you my flow and when I speak
Know I wept"
--- Unknown poet, Albanian or Serbian
Avon
12-29-2000, 07:16 AM
Thanks, what about CGI, PERL and XML, should they be priority learning?
------------------
As the greatest computer scientist of them all once said:
"I'm not expendable, I'm not stupid and I'm not going."
Simpson, Homer
12-29-2000, 08:03 AM
I'd be careful about a job based on something like MCSE and knowing a single language like ASP; they may pay you near 6-figures now, but in a few years you will be out on the street without a job unless you get a real skill. Knowing how to program and knowing computer science are two completely differnet things; you can know one without the other. Computer science is a skill that will be here forever, while comptuer programming changes rapidly enough and being a comptuer programmer essentially guarantees that you will never rise up in the corporate world. I suggest learning C++ and Visual Basic, for application programming, and MS Access (not really a language, but a program) for Data base creation (also learn how to interface with access through VB a and VC). Java is great for web stuff, as is ASP. perl is a good scripting language. BUt most importantly, you must learn a butt load of mathematics and theory behind comptuer science if you want to have a job for more than 4-5 years! Learn all of the algorithms you can and make sure to understand concepts of efficient coding as well as readability and modularity.
And if you ever want to make more than 6 figures after a few years, either get a good degree (graduate level; preferably an MBA) or be very very very lucky.
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Athlon 500@700 w/stock cooling
400 W ATX PS
Matrox G400 32 MB Dual Head
512 MB CAS2 PC 133 (Infineon)
120 GB RAID array + 27 GB main drive (loaded with mp3s, divx movies, etc)
8x DVD Drive
8x CD Burner
19" Monitor
Intellimouse Explorer and Cordless Logitech Keyboard
'93 Acura Integra--soon to be replaced with a 2002 Honda S2000 (HELL YEAH!)
slipgun
12-29-2000, 08:11 AM
Java? Is that really a big deal? How about JavaScript?
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An atomic bomb has been dispatched to the White House, with compliments from Bin Laden
Avon
12-29-2000, 09:33 AM
Thanks for the advice, I'm kind of at a career crossroads at the moment (and I'm only 25). I'm due to be made redundant at the end of next month, but I don't think it'll be too difficult to get some sort of other job to pay the bills while I work out what I want and how to get it. On the line, I've signed up for 2 Open University courses, one on the Internet and one on Computer hardware and may follow that through, bit by bit to degree level. I actually have a lot of the other skills which people look for in techies (or so I'm told) e.g I know a bit about business and CRM and whatnot, but I really need to work on my technical skills, so expect to see a lot of me in this forum.
------------------
As the greatest computer scientist of them all once said:
"I'm not expendable, I'm not stupid and I'm not going."
Sol
12-29-2000, 09:47 AM
Originally posted by slipgun:
Java? Is that really a big deal? How about JavaScript?
I hope your kidding right? http://www.sharkyforums.com/ubb/wink.gif Java is a great language. http://www.sharkyforums.com/ubb/smile.gif So many tools out there and a lot of open source code out there. I used to think Java was just a cheap ripoff of c++ (still kind of do) but I have been coding for it at work for the past 4 months. I have learned a lot and I am amazed at what you can do with it. http://www.sharkyforums.com/ubb/wink.gif
Edit: I found C++ to be the most useful. Along with Object Oriented Design. If you know the theories behind it, you can learn any langues, its just learning the syntax.
[This message has been edited by Sol (edited December 29, 2000).]
Klashe
12-29-2000, 11:04 AM
Originally posted by Sol:
I hope your kidding right? http://www.sharkyforums.com/ubb/wink.gif Java is a great language. http://www.sharkyforums.com/ubb/smile.gif So many tools out there and a lot of open source code out there. I used to think Java was just a cheap ripoff of c++ (still kind of do) but I have been coding for it at work for the past 4 months. I have learned a lot and I am amazed at what you can do with it. http://www.sharkyforums.com/ubb/wink.gif
Edit: I found C++ to be the most useful. Along with Object Oriented Design. If you know the theories behind it, you can learn any langues, its just learning the syntax.
[This message has been edited by Sol (edited December 29, 2000).]
XML, Java, C++.
Java is a cheap ripoff language, but it's a good one. A little bloated due to it huge amounts of libraries and automatic garbage collecting.
I think I would have rather started out with Java than C++ because it's a little more readable. And you get the Object Oriented Design stuff down pat before you jump into an unforgiving language like C++.
Segmentation Fault. Core Dump. <shudder>
Sol
12-29-2000, 11:41 AM
Originally posted by Klashe:
XML, Java, C++.
Java is a cheap ripoff language, but it's a good one. A little bloated due to it huge amounts of libraries and automatic garbage collecting.
Segmentation Fault. Core Dump. <shudder>
Why do you think its a cheap ripoff language? http://www.sharkyforums.com/ubb/wink.gif (not starting a flame war here, just curious about it) Also, in college I started off in Pascal and then went to C++. I didn't really have a hard time after that. I know now at my college they are teaching Java as the beginning class.
[This message has been edited by Sol (edited December 29, 2000).]
toonzwile
12-29-2000, 11:54 AM
Originally posted by Simpson, Homer:
Knowing how to program and knowing computer science are two completely differnet things; you can know one without the other. Computer science is a skill that will be here forever, while comptuer programming changes rapidly enough...
Thanks for the advice, but im actually 1 semester away from getting my Bach Science in Comp Sci... i was just talking abt ASP cuz its an emerging technology and not as many ppl know abt it. I do know VBasic, C++, even some Perl... CGI, Java, Javascript, learning Oracle... HTML, XML, DHTML, ASP... Obj Oriented Design, blah blah blah... i think ill be just fine, Homer, but thx for caring so much!!
http://www.sharkyforums.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
------------------
"I have slept many nights in places, with faces distorted
I have eaten the flesh and blood of air but still, I am here!
Though I shall never forget yesterday or today or tomorrow
And all the sorrow, from the blood shed that left many dead
I want you to know are you my flow and when I speak
Know I wept"
--- Unknown poet, Albanian or Serbian
Snoop Dogg
12-29-2000, 12:19 PM
D@mn you I was going to ask this same Question!! http://www.sharkyforums.com/ubb/smile.gif
Moridin
12-29-2000, 12:32 PM
C/C++ is a fundamental language. It will be around for a very long time. In even if people do stop using it C/C++ skills will still be needed for decades (Kind of like Cobol. It just won't die)
Java is on the rise and will likely be important for years to come.
VB is also worthwhile, but it is tied to Microsoft. If MS gets split up and looses their power to influence the market it could fall out of favor. There are a lot of scripting languages that are "VB like"
SQL not really a programming language, but it is fundamental for working with databases and this is where things are going.
Once you learn these you can pick up anything else you need easily. Pick up things like ASP, Perl, etc as you need them.
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Life is complex. It has real and imaginary parts.
Moridin
12-29-2000, 12:41 PM
programming, and MS Access (not really a language, but a program) for Data base creation ([/B]
I have to strongly disagree with you here. Access is a nice thing for a home user to play with, and a good tool for data migration but it causes nothing but problems if you attempt to use it for anything more.
There is no excuse for using Access in real application development as far as I am concerned.
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Life is complex. It has real and imaginary parts.
Sol
12-29-2000, 01:25 PM
Originally posted by Moridin:
C/C++ is a fundamental language. It will be around for a very long time. In even if people do stop using it C/C++ skills will still be needed for decades (Kind of like Cobol. It just won't die)
Java is on the rise and will likely be important for years to come.
VB is also worthwhile, but it is tied to Microsoft. If MS gets split up and looses their power to influence the market it could fall out of favor. There are a lot of scripting languages that are "VB like"
SQL not really a programming language, but it is fundamental for working with databases and this is where things are going.
Once you learn these you can pick up anything else you need easily. Pick up things like ASP, Perl, etc as you need them.
I agree. I know in college, they pushed more theory on us. Learning the science of it, instead of just teaching us how to program. there will always be new languages and new technologies out there. Its best to get a good foundation in math and the theory behind it, then learning a new language is just learning the syntax, which is the easy part. http://www.sharkyforums.com/ubb/smile.gif
Klashe
12-29-2000, 01:49 PM
Originally posted by Sol:
Why do you think its a cheap ripoff language? http://www.sharkyforums.com/ubb/wink.gif (not starting a flame war here, just curious about it) Also, in college I started off in Pascal and then went to C++. I didn't really have a hard time after that. I know now at my college they are teaching Java as the beginning class.
[This message has been edited by Sol (edited December 29, 2000).]
Maybe "cheap ripoff" was a little too strong. I was quoting your early post. Then I realized that you said "I USED to think".
It definetly has it's roots based on C or C++. And it is a good beginner's language. I wish I had learned it in school as my first prog class (instead of useless Scheme).
Sol
12-29-2000, 02:02 PM
Originally posted by Klashe:
Maybe "cheap ripoff" was a little too strong. I was quoting your early post. Then I realized that you said "I USED to think".
It definetly has it's roots based on C or C++. And it is a good beginner's language. I wish I had learned it in school as my first prog class (instead of useless Scheme).
Yeah, I used to just think it was a cheap ripoff of c++. However, now that I have gotten into it a lot more, my feelings have changed. Now, the big question is, what does everyone think about C# http://www.sharkyforums.com/ubb/smile.gif
Petlor
12-29-2000, 02:44 PM
C/C++, VB are excellent skills and both are highly marketable. Java is pretty cool too. Knowing theory like OO, modularity, etc is a Good Thing.
Once you know another programming language (especially VB), ASP is a snap. PHP is another good scripting language for web work.
I'll second the motion to stay the hell away from Access for any real database work. It's ok as a learning tool for VB/C++ <--> DB stuff but it won't cut it as a serious database. Learning some SQL is good too.
-Petlor
Mr. Silver
12-29-2000, 03:41 PM
Hey, it's great we have a new programming forum! I'll help anyone out to the best of my ability, but I mainly specialize in web design basics like XHTML (HTML 4.0 is dead http://www.sharkyforums.com/ubb/wink.gif), JavaScript, and ColdFusion. In particular, I feel that a good knowledge of CGI, JavaScript, Perl, and ASP/ColdFusion (Both languages do pretty much the same thing, just by different companies) will get you by in web design. Just my two cents though.
~Wit and sarcasm are dangerous in the hands of a professional.
Klashe
12-29-2000, 03:59 PM
Originally posted by Mr. Silver:
Hey, it's great we have a new programming forum! I'll help anyone out to the best of my ability, but I mainly specialize in web design basics like XHTML (HTML 4.0 is dead http://www.sharkyforums.com/ubb/wink.gif), JavaScript, and ColdFusion. In particular, I feel that a good knowledge of CGI, JavaScript, Perl, and ASP/ColdFusion (Both languages do pretty much the same thing, just by different companies) will get you by in web design. Just my two cents though.
I've heard a lot about ColdFusion. What is it exactly? I know it's some kind of web based tool. Like Flash perhaps? I know Flash, Photoshop, Illuustrator, Imageready and GoLive. Would it be difficult for me to learn?
Moridin
12-29-2000, 04:06 PM
Originally posted by Klashe:
I've heard a lot about ColdFusion. What is it exactly? I know it's some kind of web based tool. Like Flash perhaps? I know Flash, Photoshop, Illuustrator, Imageready and GoLive. Would it be difficult for me to learn?
AFAIK its server side environment for dynamic web pages. I think it is very similar to Microsoft's Active server pages (ASP)
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Life is complex. It has real and imaginary parts.
Mr. Silver
12-29-2000, 04:37 PM
Originally posted by Klashe:
I've heard a lot about ColdFusion. What is it exactly? I know it's some kind of web based tool. Like Flash perhaps? I know Flash, Photoshop, Illuustrator, Imageready and GoLive. Would it be difficult for me to learn?
No, it's more like ASP. ColdFusion is a server side language which is centered around SQL. Probably it's most valued asset is it's flexibility and dynamics. You can make great things with the language, like chat, message boards, and even online stores. My high school has a webmasters club and our president is a huge ColdFusion fan. Our homepage is swarming with it. When it launches you'll be able to see a good example of a page utilizing ColdFusion.
~Wit and sarcasm are dangerous in the hands of a professional.
Snoop Dogg
12-29-2000, 04:46 PM
Just so everyone knows C/C++ are not the best languages out there. They are both good, older and more widely used is why people always look to it first. People needed to start looking toward the younger brands such as Delphi, VB, CGI, XML and dozens of others out there.
In fact because everyone uses it I am trying to be different by learning Visual Basic 6 and mainly program with it.
[This message has been edited by Snoop Dogg (edited December 29, 2000).]
Mr. Silver
12-29-2000, 04:55 PM
Originally posted by Snoop Dogg:
Just so everyone knows C/C++ are not the best languages out there. They are both good, older and more widely used is why people always look to it first. People needed to start looking toward the younger brands such as Delphi, VB, CGI, XML and dozens of others out there.
In fact because everyone uses it I am trying to be different by learning Visual Basic 6 and mainly program with it.
[This message has been edited by Snoop Dogg (edited December 29, 2000).]
Hmmmm, I haven't worked with C/C++ but my friend has and he says it's a great language to start out with. I'm just a newbie, but I thought that the younger languages you mentioned are already pretty popular. VB is used by a lot of programmers, along with XML and CGI. I haven't even tried to look at Oracle because to be honest I have to learn more of the basics like JavaScript and Perl before I move up to more complex languages.
~Wit and sarcasm are dangerous in the hands of a professional.
toonzwile
12-29-2000, 05:08 PM
Originally posted by Mr. Silver:
I haven't even tried to look at Oracle because to be honest I have to learn more of the basics like JavaScript and Perl before I move up to more complex languages.
Wut?? Oracle isnt complex... http://www.sharkyforums.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
Yea right, thats like saying C++ isnt any harder to learn than Pascal. Oracle is a pain in the ***, and if u dont have a foundation in C++ u might as well give up now... i thought abt learning SQL & Delphi, but i think i have enough on my plate for now... better to try a couple and learn them than to try all of them and not master a single one...
------------------
"I have slept many nights in places, with faces distorted
I have eaten the flesh and blood of air but still, I am here!
Though I shall never forget yesterday or today or tomorrow
And all the sorrow, from the blood shed that left many dead
I want you to know are you my flow and when I speak
Know I wept"
--- Unknown poet, Albanian or Serbian
Mr. Silver
12-29-2000, 05:32 PM
Originally posted by toonzwile:
Wut?? Oracle isnt complex... http://www.sharkyforums.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
Yea right, thats like saying C++ isnt any harder to learn than Pascal. Oracle is a pain in the ***, and if u dont have a foundation in C++ u might as well give up now... i thought abt learning SQL & Delphi, but i think i have enough on my plate for now... better to try a couple and learn them than to try all of them and not master a single one...
That's what I was trying to say. I need to master some other languages first before moving on to something I know nothing about.
~Wit and sarcasm are dangerous in the hands of a professional.
Klashe
12-30-2000, 03:52 AM
Originally posted by Snoop Dogg:
Just so everyone knows C/C++ are not the best languages out there. They are both good, older and more widely used is why people always look to it first. People needed to start looking toward the younger brands such as Delphi, VB, CGI, XML and dozens of others out there.
In fact because everyone uses it I am trying to be different by learning Visual Basic 6 and mainly program with it.
[This message has been edited by Snoop Dogg (edited December 29, 2000).]
I don't think that C or C++ has outlived it's usefulness quite yet. There are tradeoffs with those newer languages you mentioned. There could be a lot of overhead that slows it down or it can take up a lot of space (i know VB is like that).
Everyone NEEDS to learn C or C++. I don't feel a programmer can be good without plugging through some C++ code at one point in their life.
pezo
12-30-2000, 04:49 PM
iv got to do java next year and im not looking foward to it because weve been told its a right ***** but then again were using Turbo pascal at the moment and thats really bad but just for practice its good
Snoop Dogg
12-30-2000, 05:40 PM
Well I am not a Programmer myself but heard that C/C++ aren't The *BEST* languages maybe good but not the Best.
Also I want to be a programmer but which language should I start out with? I was thinking VB 6 but I am a newbie so whatever works...also do you need to buy books or are the programs like Microsoft VB 6 like WYSIWYG editors?
Remember I am totally new and know nothing about programming.
Klashe
12-30-2000, 06:05 PM
Originally posted by Snoop Dogg:
Well I am not a Programmer myself but heard that C/C++ aren't The *BEST* languages maybe good but not the Best.
Also I want to be a programmer but which language should I start out with? I was thinking VB 6 but I am a newbie so whatever works...also do you need to buy books or are the programs like Microsoft VB 6 like WYSIWYG editors?
Remember I am totally new and know nothing about programming.
Well, there is no such thing as the best language. Every one of them has tradeoffs.
Learning VB is a good idea though. I don't think that you will need to buy any books because there is lots of stuff online about it.
KiD_BaroN
12-30-2000, 08:21 PM
Java and DHTML...Python and C++
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Pentium 3 550@900mhz
Geforce 2 MX
Intel D815EEAAL i815E w/ PCI Audio and LAN
256mb CAS-2
IBM 22.3 GB 9000RPM drive
Yamaha YST-M10 speakers
Cyclone II case
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Galen_of_Edgewood
12-30-2000, 09:52 PM
Originally posted by Klashe:
I don't think that C or C++ has outlived it's usefulness quite yet. There are tradeoffs with those newer languages you mentioned. There could be a lot of overhead that slows it down or it can take up a lot of space (i know VB is like that).
Everyone NEEDS to learn C or C++. I don't feel a programmer can be good without plugging through some C++ code at one point in their life.
Here is one of the pluses of C/C++. It's extremely fast. Is it more difficult to program? Sure is, when compared to some programming languages. If you need something that runs quickly, like in a real-time OS where the amount of time that it takes to run something is of high importance, Java and some other languages just can't cut it. Assembly would be faster run time, but the programming time is horrendous! Especially on an embedded processor (electronic appliances anyone?).
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So they are no longer two, but one. -Matthew 19:6 (NIV)
Boldy
01-02-2001, 08:17 PM
I'm a strong believer that it's very important to have a variety of "skills". I don't think you can say there is a best language; it all depends on your needs at the time.
My best advice to anyone trying to get their feet wet is to really focus on the fundamentals. And if your looking at pure programming, really try to get a grasp of the object oriented programming concepts.
Galen_of_Edgewood
01-02-2001, 08:31 PM
Originally posted by Boldy:
I'm a strong believer that it's very important to have a variety of "skills". I don't think you can say there is a best language; it all depends on your needs at the time.
My best advice to anyone trying to get their feet wet is to really focus on the fundamentals. And if your looking at pure programming, really try to get a grasp of the object oriented programming concepts.
This is probably the single most important thing for all programmers to know and understand. Believe it or not, programming is a lot more than just coding. It took me a while to understand that concept. http://www.sharkyforums.com/ubb/frown.gif
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So they are no longer two, but one. -Matthew 19:6 (NIV)
kordump
01-03-2001, 09:04 AM
The best programming language is psuedocode.
Sure it doesn't compile, sure it doesn't run. But it describes your algorithm better than any language.
the most important tool for a computer scientist isn't a computer, it's a whiteboard.
pnut33
01-03-2001, 08:23 PM
If you learn C it will be easy to learn other languages like Java and Duh C++. A reall usefull and easy language is Visual Basic. Visual Basic is pretty usefull for applications using access and other MSoft products. After you learn these languages then you can get easyly into perl,cgi-scripting,asp and all those other web scrip/language thang. Offcourse the computer field evolves constantly so this shouldnt last you that long i guess.
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