WHAT IS THE BEST STARTER LANGUAGE?

[allmixedup]

Hi i'm a freshman in Highschool and I do a lot of work in lightwave and I am in need of learning a scripting language for making games (i.e. coldstone) of somesort. Can someone help me with what lanuage to use and any good teaching programs or books that are around??

Thanks

[ZamoraM831]

well hmm, first off juss wanted ta say, i am a freshman in highskool too, always thought i was the only one that really cared about programming. hehe anyways.
Wow, programming games, thats the main reason im doin this as well as for my future http://www.sharkyforums.com/ubb/smile.gif, but its looking lyke that time will be quite a ways away since first...

You will need to learn a language such as C or C++, i think maybe java too, then you need to learn sumpin like directx programming to make games/mods whatever. i dunno if this is what ur lookin for juss thought i might help.

hmm or you can try a language called lingo, not sure how that goes though, i think thats for a lil less complicated games.
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Z

[This message has been edited by ZamoraM831 (edited April 24, 2001).]

[bobgod007]

Agreed, C/C++ is the best stepping stone to real programming. Basic and VB are a bit too simple to use in the real world for large scale deployment or efficent programming. While Java imo should come after a basic knowledge of C, you might want to try Java Script to get your feet wet.

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[Galen of Edgewood]

Easiest way to learn if you like to program. Follow this list.

[list=1]
Basic (be it GWBasic, QBasic, or VB, just to get used to the idea of what programming is about)
Pascal (gets you used to a structured language)
C/C++ (Gets you ready for the real world and every other language out there)
[/list=a]

There is one agreement between the three of us here, and that is learning C/C++. So, do it. http://www.sharkyforums.com/ubb/biggrin.gif



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while (Galen of Edgewood->stillAwake()) {
****Galen of Edgewood->work();
****if (!Galen of Edgewood->stillAwake())
*******Galen of Edgewood->wakeUp();
****else
*******Galen of Edgewood->receiveDrPepper();
}

[Slovin8]

I say do not waste time learning Basic or Pascal, start off with C/C++. I don't understand what's so terrible about learning C/C++ for the first time!

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[Galen of Edgewood]

Originally posted by Slovin8:
I say do not waste time learning Basic or Pascal, start off with C/C++. I don't understand what's so terrible about learning C/C++ for the first time!



C/C++ is a highly frustrating language. It'll do anything you tell it to do, which is not exactly a good thing for a newbie to have. Telling someone to start with C/C++ is kinda like throwing a kid in the deep end of the pool and say, "Okay, start swimming!"

Don't get me wrong, I love the language. It kicks Java's butt in almost every situation. I program in it quite a bit. (Work and school.) I just don't think that it is a great beginning language.

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while (Galen of Edgewood->stillAwake()) {
****Galen of Edgewood->work();
****if (!Galen of Edgewood->stillAwake())
*******Galen of Edgewood->wakeUp();
****else
*******Galen of Edgewood->receiveDrPepper();
}

[Nexer]

I agree with edge. start with basic or pascal. I started with modula3 it is like pascal with objects. I think java would probably be the next step to learn about object oriented programming.
ML is a good starter too.

[This message has been edited by Nexer (edited April 25, 2001).]

[namgor]

Pascal

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I am crab, scoins is crap.

[rock]

It really depends some on what you see yourself programming in the future. If you just want to learn programming without learning a bunch of stupid crap about grabage cleanup and pointer math, I'd suggest either FORTRAN or JAVA.

FORTRAN is a great in-line language for doing things like number crunching. It's stringent on formatting, which isn't bad for a beginner.

But, JAVA is totally object-oriented, which is a great thing to learn these days. Plus, no more pointers and it takes care of its own garbase.

C/C++ is useful. But I cringe when I have to dig through that code. Fortran and Java are a lot easier for the non-author to debug.

[H.Golnabi]

I think:

PASCAL / BASIC : For basic programming tricks, numbers, gotos, loops, ifs, whiles, etc.

VISUAL BASIC : For beginner programs like pressing a button -> sqroot of a given number and DirectX base (at least that´s what I use)

VISUAL C/C++: For more complex applications for business, etc.

DIRECTX 7 or 8: For (of course) GAMES.

[Zoma]

Start with Pascal. It will be easy enough to understand, and uses reference parameters so you don't need to learn pointers to make some pretty basic, though usefull, programs. It will teach you how to write structured code. Structured just basicallymeans well writted code that all "real" programmers use. Once you understand a bit about how programming works, I'd then go on to learn some basic ASM. It makes learning pointers a lot easier, since you'll already have an understanding of what goes on with memory addresses, and whatnot.

My reasoning why not to start with either BASIC or C:

BASIC will most likely teach you to write unstructured code. While modern BASIC, like QBasic, can be structured, most of it uses an unhealthy number of goto statements. BASIC is easier than C and would making learning C easier, but Pascal isn't really any harder than BASIC, and will get you started with good programming practices.

I'd also avoid C as a first language because either you won't really understand pointers, and therefore won't really understand what is going on, or you'll learn watered-down C without pointers using C++ reference parameters. This is bad, IMO, because once you want to learn more about what is going on, a lot of things might get confusing.

C is also bad for a first language because it is more obscure. That is, it is less like written language than Pascal, because C assumes that you already know what you are doing (you know what you doing?!). Rather than typing "Begin" and "End," C uses curly brackets ('{' and '}'). This is because programmers are lazy and don't want to type a lot ( http://www.sharkyforums.com/ubb/smile.gif), but seeing the words makes Pascal a bit more intuitive. Granted, it may take you a very short period of time to get used to how a program works, but it is still easier to start to Pascal and move to C once you have more understanding.

Hope this helps.
Zoma

[Galen of Edgewood]

I can't disagree with Zoma.

The one plus of learning Basic is that it is a great thing for those who are afraid to program. Pascal is a bit scary if you are afraid of programming, but it is a great language to learn. Highly structured and very specific is a good thing in a beginning language.

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while (Galen of Edgewood->stillAwake()) {
****Galen of Edgewood->work();
****if (!Galen of Edgewood->stillAwake())
*******Galen of Edgewood->wakeUp();
****else
*******Galen of Edgewood->receiveDrPepper();
}

[This message has been edited by Galen of Edgewood (edited April 26, 2001).]

[KonGo-JeE]

yeh i started out in my freshman year of school with visual basic then learned some nice html which is always useful then next year which will be my junior year im taking a c/c++ class from columbia university..so i would reccomend starting out with VB cause its very simple and self explanatory and can help leading up to c/c++ and eventually directx!

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[allmixedup]

Originally posted by ZamoraM831:
well hmm, first off juss wanted ta say, i am a freshman in highskool too, always thought i was the only one that really cared about programming. hehe anyways.
Wow, programming games, thats the main reason im doin this as well as for my future http://www.sharkyforums.com/ubb/smile.gif, but its looking lyke that time will be quite a ways away since first...

Thanx . . .thats cool man, where u from

You will need to learn a language such as C or C++, i think maybe java too, then you need to learn sumpin like directx programming to make games/mods whatever. i dunno if this is what ur lookin for juss thought i might help.

hmm or you can try a language called lingo, not sure how that goes though, i think thats for a lil less complicated games.

[allmixedup]

Originally posted by Zoma:
Start with Pascal. It will be easy enough to understand, and uses reference parameters so you don't need to learn pointers to make some pretty basic, though usefull, programs. It will teach you how to write structured code. Structured just basicallymeans well writted code that all "real" programmers use. Once you understand a bit about how programming
works, I'd then go on to learn some basic ASM. It makes learning pointers a lot easier, since you'll already have an understanding of what goes on with memory addresses, and whatnot.

My reasoning why not to start with either BASIC or C:

BASIC will most likely teach you to write unstructured code. While modern BASIC, like QBasic, can be structured, most of it uses an unhealthy number of goto statements. BASIC is easier than C and would making learning C easier, but Pascal isn't really any harder than BASIC, and will get you started with good programming practices.

I'd also avoid C as a first language because either you won't really understand pointers, and therefore won't really understand what is going on, or you'll learn watered-down C without pointers using C++ reference parameters. This is bad, IMO, because once you want to learn more about what is going on, a lot of things might get confusing.

C is also bad for a first language because it is more obscure. That is, it is less like written language than Pascal, because C assumes that you already know what you are doing (you know what you doing?!). Rather than typing "Begin" and "End," C uses curly brackets ('{' and '}'). This is because programmers are lazy and don't want to type a lot ( http://www.sharkyforums.com/ubb/smile.gif), but seeing the words makes Pascal a bit more intuitive. Granted, it may take you a very short period of time to get used to how a program works, but it is still easier to start to Pascal and move to C once you have more understanding.

Hope this helps.
Zoma


Thanx alot this has really helped me . .do you know of any books or programs that can help me learn these lanuages.

[allmixedup]

Originally posted by KonGo-JeE:
yeh i started out in my freshman year of school with visual basic then learned some nice html which is always useful then next year which will be my junior year im taking a c/c++ class from columbia university..so i would reccomend starting out with VB cause its very simple and self explanatory and can help leading up to c/c++ and eventually directx!




Thanx for the reply . . . my dad did the same overclocking job with his new duron . . .its funny how when u look at many of the AMD chips all u have to do it re route some external wiring to bump the speed up . . in many case say a 800 and 1000 mghz duron may be the same chip with different wiring paths.

[Sol]

Hey, I started off in college with Pascal, then moved to C++. I think the best thing to do is get a good understanding of a lot of languages. Don't just worry about C++ or Basic. I was a C++ programmer in college, and when I got out in the workforce, I now program in Java mostly. However, having a good understanding of C++ and the object oriented design, Java wasn't hard at all. http://www.sharkyforums.com/ubb/smile.gif



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[Katama]

Lots of excellent advice here, so I just had to pipe in as well http://www.sharkyforums.com/ubb/tongue.gif

The most important thing is to pick a language interesting enough that you can stick with it to learn about programming. I used to teach intro. programming at a university about 6 years ago, and back then Pascal was the "instructional" language of choice. I think they've since switched to Java, but Pascal provides an excellent way of learning about procedural languages (like C/C++) while still providing what I think is a more easy to learn interface.

The textbook for that course was a GREAT book called Oh! Pascal! (Yes, that is the real title). It is one of the best CS books I've read and is extremely easy to read because of the great style with which it is written. I HIGHLY recommend reading it, and using it to learn about programming concepts (using Pascal as your model). Then you can learn "real" programming languages like C/C++ which have many real-world applications.

Good luck. Here is a link to the book I recommend: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0393963985/qid=989951759/sr=1-9/re f=sc_b_9/107-5639123-8724560 (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0393963985/qid=989951759/sr=1-9/ref=sc_b_9/107-5639123-8724560)



[This message has been edited by Katama (edited May 15, 2001).]

[peaboy55]

I'm shocked to see no one has mentioned python. It's simple, straightforward, powerful, but... interpreted. I think most larger programs written in python are half the amount of code. However, since it is a very high-level programming language, things like pointers aren't included. I started programming using c/c++ however, but I think python is a very valid teaching tool.

[Towfiq]

I don't know anything about game programing.But I'm 13 now started out with VB and later learned C++ in a stupid crash course and then learned Java.I find VB good for small windows job's.I had a book on J++ onc but someone stoll it and I haven't found aother one.But C++ is NOT so tought once you think of it as language not code.As for the topic of games I could use some help.As for the 3D fo with Maya best in the world.