What laguage to learn first.

[shill88]

I'm just starting college and wanted to know what language you would suggest learning first. I've been told that pascal is a good choice do you agree? What books or websites would you suggest to get a head start.

Thanks
Shawn

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[dighn]

Originally posted by shill88:
I'm just starting college and wanted to know what language you would suggest learning first. I've been told that pascal is a good choice do you agree? What books or websites would you suggest to get a head start.

Thanks
Shawn



Learn Java
It's eaiser to learn than C++, practical and similar enough to C++ to give you a headstart.

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Keep it brief

[This message has been edited by dighn (edited September 20, 2001).]

[joeyw99]

Java, Javascript, Visual Basic, even HTML...any of these would be a good start.

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[shill88]

I already know HTML didn't even know you could consider that a language hehe http://www.sharkyforums.com/ubb/smile.gif.

Shawn

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[Racer^]

Console (non-GUI) Java and C++ are about the same. Personally, I'm partial to C++ (due to its flexability and very wide use). However, for a beginner, Java might be a *little* easier to grasp.

In ANY case, get 1 or 2 good books on the language you choose. DON'T try to use online tutorials (except to supplement the books)!!

As for HTML, heh well, thats not realy a language and the general usage can be "learned" in about a day. Obviously, making a web page look professional takes more work, but thats a different subject.

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[Killer1nstinct]

Just my 2 cents, Im new to programming as well, and chose to go with C++ as my choice (mainly due to the fact that a Programming II class at the high school I transfered to offered it and I made a *white* lie (claiming I knew other languages) when really, I just like to jump into the deep end and work my way out. Have about one week of C++ under my belt, and Im loving every second of it. The book we use is called C++ - How To Program by Deitel & Deitel. An OK book, heard the updated edition is better.

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Daniel Stehm

Killer1nstinct
Proud Linux Hippy! (http://www.geocities.com/bloodred716/hippy.html)

Blah...

[biosx]

Well, if you asked me this question a week ago, I would have said start with C. C is small, fast, fun, and teaches alot of things (b/c you have to do alot of things manually).

However, I just started reading my Java book ("Beginning Java2" by Ivor Horton) and I must say it's an amazing book on an amazing language. Java seems like a really fun and modern language.

So I say go for Java. It's modern, portable, and seems alot more cleaner (and easier) than C++.

But go ahead and take two weeks to learn C. It'll be well worth it http://www.sharkyforums.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

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## root is the greed of all evil ##

[bryce777]

OOP in C++ is VERY difficult for a beginner to grasp. You can run into problems even an expert can be baffled by too. I would suggest Java as a good learning language just because it tries to force you into OOP a lot more.


Originally posted by Racer^:
Console (non-GUI) Java and C++ are about the same. Personally, I'm partial to C++ (due to its flexability and very wide use). However, for a beginner, Java might be a *little* easier to grasp.

In ANY case, get 1 or 2 good books on the language you choose. DON'T try to use online tutorials (except to supplement the books)!!

As for HTML, heh well, thats not realy a language and the general usage can be "learned" in about a day. Obviously, making a web page look professional takes more work, but thats a different subject.




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[Lia]

I personally started with C and C++. By doing that I could learn basic and necessary programming principles and concepts. A good while later I could “switch” to any language I wanted. Now, I use VB and my C++ background pays off well.

Lia

[hobbes2112]

I would also have to vote for regular C, not C++

Although most of the useful programming I have done was in Matlab (an interpretive mathematics package from Mathworks), Labview (graphical programming from National Instruments very useful for data acq) or C, I also have experience with Fortran 77, VB, and Logo (haha remember the turtle!), and the most useful language to learn programming techniques on is straight up C. It isn't too easy or too hard, and makes you actually learn how algorithms should work, rather than just having built-in functions do it for you.

That is only my suggestion for learning, for actually doing work....I love Matlab. But that is coming from an Aerospace Engineer for whom, programming usually just a means to an end, rather than the end itself.

2cents

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May we never see an old friend
With a new face.

[ksuohio]

I found that VB was a very valuable language to learn. In college I started with a VB class, but went to C++ and then into Visual C++ using MFC. The funny thing was, when I started working, there was such a large need for VB and Access Apps using SQL and almost nothing requiring C++. I'm sure that C++ is a popular language if you are developing large business applications that may become commercial, though most of what I do doesn't allow the developement time to use a language like C++. What would you be apply these newly learned languages to? If you can answer that, then it would be really easy to decide on a language.

[Strogian]

I'm glad I learned Pascal, just so I know what they mean when they say a block-structured language. http://www.sharkyforums.com/ubb/smile.gif

[shill88]

This was actually a question I was asking for one of my lazy friends. I enjoy tech probably a little too much(I hate to think at how much money I have spent just fiddleing with my computer over the past few years) but would rather go into the field of business. Anyway he's struggleing with pascal right now mainly because he is lazy. The reason that I asked this question was because he tried taking a Java class but the teacher said it would be too advanced for someone who has never programed before and told him to start with pascal. From what you guys are saying the teacher is full of it or doesn't know what they are talking about. Then again if he's struggling with Pascal I hate to think what he would be doing with Java. Anyway thanks for answereing my question and listening to me ramble.

P.S. What language is Windows? Office? Just wondering.

Shawn

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[Grizzly]

I'd say learn C, and learn it *well*. After that, move on to OOP, with either C++ or Java.

Java has it's strength's, but it's not god's greatest gift to man as some would lead you to believe. It's the most god-awful inefficient language in the world, at the cost of being "easy" to program/maintain.


But my point is, by learning C first, you're forced learn how to do a lot of processes manually, and I personally think C will teach you to really "think like a programmer". That being done, you can master Object Oriented methodologies relatively easily.

[driver]

Grissly has a point that Java is slow and inefficient, but those qualities only really become a concern if real-time behavior is desired. Most of the time, real-time is not neccessary meaning that Java is just right, easy to program and powerful at the same time. I would suggest your friend learn Java if he decides to get out of his lazy stage. If he doesn't, then stick with a non-object oriented language like C.

[This message has been edited by driver (edited October 01, 2001).]

[ksuohio]

Windows is a combination of C++, Assembly Language (Not fun), and I'm sure something others. What college's still teach PASCAL anyways and which companies are using the language? Also, who is using JAVA at their job and what are they using it for? Just curious because we use RPG IV, SQL, VB, COBOL, and a little C++. The web developement team uses the usual suspects for their projects.

[bryce777]

Sorry - while this may have been true in 1996 things are much different now.

All more modern JVMs use JIT compiling. So, except for the first run through a code segment it is basically just as fast as C++.

The JVMs in browsers have not really changed since 1997, so people get a very skewed idea of the speed of Java. In an environment where you are running a server, you are (to the appearance of users) never ever having to interpret the language because all methods will usually run thousands or millions of times before the JVM is restarted. If you think of applets when you think Java, then you are thinking of Java from 5 years ago....

For a web project, there is no faster language than Java, period. For the resin servlet engine, JSP pages with light calculations are almost as fast as loading a static page and in many cases load many times faster than interpreted scripting languages like ASP, PERL, MOD_PERL and PHP. Same for network programming. Even C++ is slower for network programming because all C++ code is competing against native JVM code which is highly optimized with assembly code.

Even for straight up applications some JVMs are actually faster than VC++ and almost as fast as gnu C++ once the first run of methods is subtracted from the time, but these are expensive products that are basically designed for use in high end Java server environments.

To the guy who asked who does Java for a living and what they do with it:
I mostly do Java for a living, though I do a little bit of everything. I've used it for network programming and for large web projects, mostly, with online games and a myriad of other things thrown in. The biggest demand for it is in really high end websites and database-related projects. It is great on the high end because of EJB and EJB-like containers such as the one built in to Oracle which do some really amazing things automatically-basically everything but wipe your nose. Right now I am doing Java/Oracle for a medium-large intranet project to keep track of criminals that should last another year or maybe two.






Originally posted by Grizzly:
I'd say learn C, and learn it *well*. After that, move on to OOP, with either C++ or Java.

Java has it's strength's, but it's not god's greatest gift to man as some would lead you to believe. It's the most god-awful inefficient language in the world, at the cost of being "easy" to program/maintain.


But my point is, by learning C first, you're forced learn how to do a lot of processes manually, and I personally think C will teach you to really "think like a programmer". That being done, you can master Object Oriented methodologies relatively easily.



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system specs:
Voodoo 5 5500 agp
tyan 1834d tiger 133 dual 800eb 133mhz FSB
via chipset 133 via apollo pro (don't make this mistake)
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promise ata100 controller
liteon 52 truex cdrom
Linksys ethernet 10/100
Soundblaster Live! (what's so exciting about it??) value edition
300watt power supply (inwin)
about 7 pounds of fans (I'm not kidding)
Suse 7.1(god gnome is crappy compared to CDE)/win2000 based system

[shill88]

Originally posted by ksuohio:
What college's still teach PASCAL anyways and which companies are using the language?

Santa Barbara City College
http://www.sharkyforums.com/ubb/frown.gif


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[bryce777]

Originally posted by shill88:
Santa Barbara City College
http://www.sharkyforums.com/ubb/frown.gif



Hey-don't knock it too much. The guy that invented pascal got a turing award for it.

Also, if you ever do database stuff, stored procedures are almost always done in pascal (sometimes Java) because it is great for DB access since it has lots of the stuff you would need for that built in. Also, Delphi is basically Pascal, and it is used a lot on HP-UX systems for 'mission-critical' DB applications.
Not as sexy as C++ or Java, but it's still a language worth knowing.


------------------
system specs:
Voodoo 5 5500 agp
tyan 1834d tiger 133 dual 800eb 133mhz FSB
via chipset 133 via apollo pro (don't make this mistake)
256 MB RAM
2 maxtor 60gig ata100 drives
promise ata100 controller
liteon 52 truex cdrom
Linksys ethernet 10/100
Soundblaster Live! (what's so exciting about it??) value edition
300watt power supply (inwin)
about 7 pounds of fans (I'm not kidding)
Suse 7.1(god gnome is crappy compared to CDE)/win2000 based system