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  1. #1
    Hammerhead Shark [PinPals]Apu's Avatar
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    Dawn of War II

    Review time!

    This has been my most anticipated game since it was announced. Huge fan of DoW and Warhammer 40k (models are coming along nicely). So after picking the game up Thursday afternoon and putting it through its paces, I feel its time to post up a review. Although I am a bit biased as a huge W40k and DoWI fan, I feel I can accurately point out the flaws.

    Pros:

    - RTS/RPG/Huh? I was skeptical about the whole genre mixing thing when I first read early reviews, but I find I really like it. Instead of rehashing DoWI with prettier graphics but instead they made a whole new game and I love it. Instead of building a huge base, a big army and then smashing your enemy, you instead control 4 squads and thats it. I have yet to build a building, do any research or capture any requisition points. You have your Force Commander and then pick 3 other squads from Tactical Marines (basic Space Marines, can use lots of weapons, grenades etc), Assault Marines (melee focused with jump packs they use to crash into enemies from above), Devastator Marines (heavy weapon specialists, use heavy bolters, rocket launchers etc), Scout Marines (weaker marines that can use stealth, sniper rifles for 1 shot kills, and anti vehicle/building charges), and a Dreadnaught, a walker/tank that is ****ing AWESOME. You pick your 3 depending on the mission type and get dropped in. No base building, nothing. You advance through the map raping enemies and capturing points like communication arrays which resupply fallen members and side objectives that include factories and shrines, which provide additional XP and grant special abilities. Your squads never die, instead you lose members until the squad leader is alone and incapacitated and just lies on the ground wounded. You have to revive him with another squad or a health-kit and then move to a captured communication array to receive reinforcements and resupply the squad. This is one feature I like since it makes the game more tactical and you cant just charge in guns blazing. You have to think about how youre going to make your next move, what cover is available and how to use it to protect your men.

    The RPG elements come in the form of Wargear and ability points. Wargear ranges from weapons and armor to stuff like grenades, deployable sentries, badges with special powers etc. As you progress you get additional wargear by beating missions or sometimes a piece will drop during a mission. Each squad also gets 2 points per level which they can use to improve their health, melee and ranged damage, or energy which is used to perform special abilities.

    - Its been a long time since Ive really been impressed with the graphics of an RTS, but DoWII has done that. Landscapes, units, weather, weapon effects are all very well done. Grenades explode in a huge cloud and send enemies flying, assault marines plunge from the sky and crush everything they land on, even the planets in the campaign screen look great. Very impressed.

    - I dont know if AI is really a pro or a con, but I suppose its more a pro to me. So far the AI hasnt terribly impressed me tho. They use cover well and keep you on your toes with grenades but thats about it. Most missions have you fighting your way towards a boss which is super powerful. Slogging through all the enemies can feel like a bit of a chore at times as you try and reach the end boss. Again they just hide behind stuff and wait for you to smash them. As you progress they will pull out tanks etc to keep things interesting. The end bosses are a unit anyone who played DoWI will recognize. Eldar Prism Tanks, Wraithlords, Exarchs, Ork warbosses, Nobs, etc are all here and super strong. This part I dont really care for as it kinda throws any realism out the door. One mission put me up against a Warp Spider Exarch (sergeant unit from DoWI) and it took several minutes of beating with my force commander and 3 units to take him down. Really? A dozen marines vs a warp spider? I guess it makes the game away from being too much like DoWI and having to destroy a bunch of bases all the time. Overall Im split.

    - Sound is again great. All the explosions, gunshots, voices etc are well done in my book. Nothing bad to say about any of it (no bonesingers, woo!)

    Cons:

    - While the game itself is fairly bug free, the big thing for me is crashes. I cant play more than 2 missions usually before I get some kind of error and the game CTDs. Kinda annoying when Im in the mood to play more than 1 or 2 missions at a time. There was another bug about missions not populating but I never experienced it and Relic has already fixed it. Make the crashes go away Relic! Thats all I ask! (for now)

    - Psuedo-con really. Only 4 races. I know DoWI originally shipped with only 4 races, but a few more the 2nd time around wouldve been nice. As much as I dig playing the Space Marines, the Orks and Eldar were 2 races in the original I could never get in. Tyranids are a fantastic addition and something Im sure every DoWI fan was waiting for. Throwing in Chaos, IG, or the Necrons wouldve been nice. Guess well have to wait for the expansions for those. As long as they spare us the Dark Eldar from DoWI (shudder)

    - Already covered the lethargic AI above, and again I cant really decide if its a pro or con. They do the job but some flanking or special abilities would spice my *** kicking up a bit.

    - Did I mention the all to occasional random crashes? Did I? Good, theyre annoying.

    Overall, Im in love with DoWII. As a fan since I first got into 40k as a kid, this is as much fun playing 40k as playing the tabletop game years ago (and may again soon if I ever decide my Grey Knights are good enough and friggin finish em). DoWII has plenty of room for more races with expansions and mods. The graphic, visceral feel is well captured. Its a very welcome change from the DoWI mold and I think Relic did a smashing job. The tactical squad based strategy works very well here as does the mild RPG elements of leveling squad leaders and upgradeable wargear. The lack of races doesnt bother me from giving DoWII game a 10/10, but the crashing does. Overall a 9.5/10 for a helluvalot of 40k goodness without bothersome bases or resource collecting. Kudos to Relic and heres hoping for a quick patch to the crashing and the hope of future expansions.

    Screenshots to follow shortly...
    Last edited by [PinPals]Apu; 02-22-2009 at 02:15 PM.
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  2. #2
    Awesome. Kamakazie's Avatar
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    You and I, 1v1, NOW!

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    Astronomy Shark speedyaxon's Avatar
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    If you do 1v1, can you post up the video? I'd love to learn from it. All I've been able to do is skirmish. Crashed 3 out of 3 times so far in the first campaign, I can hardly get anywhere. Plays smooth, all settings on high, then just crashes.
    Last edited by speedyaxon; 02-22-2009 at 06:06 PM.
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    Awesome. Kamakazie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedyaxon View Post
    If you do 1v1, can you post up the video? I'd love to learn from it. All I've been able to do is skirmish. Crashed 3 out of 3 times so far in the first campaign, I can hardly get anywhere. Plays smooth, all settings on high, then just crashes.
    Sure thing, Speedy. I've got a few 3v3 replays too if you want me to post those up.

  5. #5
    I don't roll on Shabbos! Timman_24's Avatar
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    I went to BB and GS today to try to find a copy and they didnt have them. GS sold out and BB doesn't get them in until this tuesday. I don't really want to go with steam, so I guess I'm just stuck waiting for a bit. Oh well, I have other games to tide me over plus I just started watching Firefly! It is awesome!

    Thanks for the review. I'm still on the fence about whether I will like it or not. I enjoy the traditional RPGs more than the WCIII style (which this one is even more extreme than WC3.) I just don't know how long it will hold my attention, from what I have read it doesn't seem to have much depth to it.
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    Hammerhead Shark [PinPals]Apu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timman_24 View Post
    I went to BB and GS today to try to find a copy and they didnt have them. GS sold out and BB doesn't get them in until this tuesday. I don't really want to go with steam, so I guess I'm just stuck waiting for a bit. Oh well, I have other games to tide me over plus I just started watching Firefly! It is awesome!

    Thanks for the review. I'm still on the fence about whether I will like it or not. I enjoy the traditional RPGs more than the WCIII style (which this one is even more extreme than WC3.) I just don't know how long it will hold my attention, from what I have read it doesn't seem to have much depth to it.
    You have to install through Steam anyway, so why not just do that? The only reason I bought my copy from BB was because they had bonus wargear/MP map.
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  7. #7
    Awesome. Kamakazie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timman_24 View Post
    I went to BB and GS today to try to find a copy and they didnt have them. GS sold out and BB doesn't get them in until this tuesday. I don't really want to go with steam, so I guess I'm just stuck waiting for a bit. Oh well, I have other games to tide me over plus I just started watching Firefly! It is awesome!

    Thanks for the review. I'm still on the fence about whether I will like it or not. I enjoy the traditional RPGs more than the WCIII style (which this one is even more extreme than WC3.) I just don't know how long it will hold my attention, from what I have read it doesn't seem to have much depth to it.
    As Apu says, this game is like HL2 - even if you buy it in stores you're going to have to register with Steam.

    Speaking of depth, I can assure you that multiplayer has a ton. The need for quick thinking and solid battlefield tactics really put this game above the rest.

  8. #8
    Astronomy Shark speedyaxon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamakazie View Post
    Sure thing, Speedy. I've got a few 3v3 replays too if you want me to post those up.
    That would rock!
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  10. #10
    Awesome. Kamakazie's Avatar
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    Actually there is a version # to worry about... as of last Friday those replays have been rendered inert -__-

    So here's two more!
    http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/91198/Rep...3.22-22-48.rec
    http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/91198/Rep...3.21-19-42.rec

    EDIT: And not 15 minutes after I posted those a new patch was released.
    Last edited by Kamakazie; 02-24-2009 at 01:01 AM.

  11. #11
    Astronomy Shark speedyaxon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamakazie View Post
    Actually there is a version # to worry about... as of last Friday those replays have been rendered inert -__-

    So here's two more!
    http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/91198/Rep...3.22-22-48.rec
    http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/91198/Rep...3.21-19-42.rec

    EDIT: And not 15 minutes after I posted those a new patch was released.
    Ah, so that's what happened. I couldn't get them to play and was wondering *** was up. Lemme try these two.
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  12. #12
    Awesome. Kamakazie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedyaxon View Post
    Ah, so that's what happened. I couldn't get them to play and was wondering *** was up. Lemme try these two.
    I believe those are from version 1.2; we are currently on 1.3.

  13. #13
    I don't roll on Shabbos! Timman_24's Avatar
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    Here is my full review that I also posted on Gamespot.com:

    Introduction
    The Dawn of War series ranks highly in the RTS scene. It burst into the genre in 2004 and became an instant classic. The fast paced and intense bloody battles set in an unfathomable future mixed with streamlined traditional RTS features such as base building and a new take on resource gathering launched Dawn of War way ahead of anything else offered in its field. Following up the success of Dawn of War were three expansion packs that added more factions, units, missions, maps, and game play changes that kept the fans happy and more importantly Relic's war chest full to continue to develop the 40k universe. Finally news of a totally new Dawn of War built from the ground up made everyone jumppack for joy. What would they do this time? How can they possibly improve on the great balance between lightning fast battles and moderate base management?

    The answer is simple. They didn't. They made a totally new game that isn't anything like the previous games. Some could argue it shouldn't even wear the same name as the original game. It isn't to say the game is bad by any means, but fans of Dawn of War will not necessarily be fans of Dawn of War II since they are so incredibly different. I would go as far to say Dawn of War II is just barely an RTS at all, in my honest opinion it plays more like an overhead action/adventure game than anything else.

    Now let's get down and dirty with this game apart from series comparisons.

    Story
    As with most Warhammer 40k videogame storylines there isn't much depth here. They have to weave a tale that gets all the factions involved so the player can fight against each race in the game during the campaign. This makes the campaign seems a bit contrived and uninspired but most don't play this game for a life changing plot line. The story goes a bit like this without spoiling too much. You are an elite squad of Space Marines stationed on a distant planet that has problems with Ork infestation (cliché in the 40k universe.) As the story unfolds the Eldar make a brief appearance and the Tyrannid start flooding into the system. As I said if you want to read a good Warhammer story, invest in the Horus Heresy series because you won't find it here.

    Game Play
    In a traditional style RTS game the player typically starts to build a base while harvesting resources to make said base bigger and to advance technologically while managing funds to build an appropriate sized military until higher ranking units can be made. In earlier games this caused turtling which Dawn of War fixed by making the resources points of interest around the map which the player had to take and hold. This made getting involved with the other player/computer much faster than other games. Sometimes full scale war would start within minutes of the match starting. However, Relic didn't think this was fast enough. To "fix" the lull time in the game they decided to make the player contact the enemy even faster… by having no base at all, having zero resources, and by spawning up instantly at any "drop location."

    That's right. The player starts the game with a set amount of squads and that is that. If a few guys die then they can respawn at the drop locations. The player does not die until all the squads are totally annihilated. Just like Dawn of War there is cover in this game, but it works more like Company of Heroes. Target a squad of troops and the cursor turns into an indicator to tell the player what type of cover the squad will move into by displaying white, yellow, or green. The color green being the best cover and white being no cover. This plays a vital role in the game and must be closely watched. Just like in Dawn of War morale is a big issue in this game, the morale of a squad must be kept up or they are dead in the water.

    The single player campaign works by the player selecting a mission to execute and being launched to the surface. From there the squads are given objectives and wade through battle performing the various tasks that are set out for them to accomplish such as eliminating Ork populations or destroying Eldar web gateways. The player can also take over various structures in each mission that helps them while they are on the planet by giving them various bonuses at the mission start. Throughout the mission loot is dropped which can be equipped at the planetary menu. The mission culminates into a boss fight which range from easy to near impossible. After the mission is over the squads are given exp based on mission performance and can level up. Leveling up gives them "talent points" to use in various specializations. It works much like Mass Effect. That pretty much sums up the single player experience. Just keep running missions and upgrading the troops.

    As for multiplayer there isn't much to say. Take a few squads into battle with others in different play modes. This can be fun for a few hours but the long term satisfaction just isn't there. Some tactics that players have come up with are very interesting, but overall there feels like a disconnect between the players and the game.

    Graphics
    The graphics are great. The textures are high quality, the particle effects are staggering, and the environments and character models are highly detailed. This game plays more intimately than the first game therefore more time has been taken to ensure all the models are of the best quality and the animations are spot on. This is one of the best looking "RTS" games on the market as of its release.

    Sound
    As with the graphics no expense was spared when putting this game together. The soundtrack isn't anything to write home about but the blasters, grenades, bazookas, jumppacks, and everything make a huge impact through the sound. It really sounds like I am in the middle of an intense fire fight.

    Value
    I am sorry to say there isn't much here for what you pay. The campaign is lengthy, about 15-20 hours. Multiplayer is okay, but if you have spent any time with World in Conflict it is nothing new. I beat the campaign and decided that was enough for me. I am STILL playing the original Dawn of War and its expansions. I have been playing them steadily on and off since the first one came on in 2004. I don't see myself firing up Dawn of War II again any time soon. I would say the game is worth a purchase if you are a Warhammer 40k fan and it is about 20 dollars, but otherwise just pass.

    Conclusion
    This game was the biggest disappointment for me so far in 2009 (I am writing this review at the end of April 2009.) I had HIGH hopes for Dawn of War II because I am a major fan of the series, but this was just a let down. It's not to say it isn't a good game, it is not bad by any means, but it is just not what this series needed. We didn't need a bare-bones run and gun action adventure game. We needed a true sequel to Dawn of War, the game that brought the genre to another level. Dawn of War II doesn't change the RTS scene; it abandons it for an all action, run and gun experience.

    Score and Justification
    I give this game a 7.0 and I feel that is a very fair score. Taking into account the bland campaign, the lack of replayability through other factions, and the forgettable multiplayer experience makes this just a mediocre game. The universe the game is set in is incredible, the lore is fantastic, but this game just does not do it justice. I hope Relic gets back on track and gives the fans what they really want. A first rate RTS experience.
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  14. #14
    Mako Shark Kung_Fu_Fighter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timman_24 View Post
    The universe the game is set in is incredible, the lore is fantastic, but this game just does not do it justice. I hope Relic gets back on track and gives the fans what they really want. A first rate RTS experience.
    We already have that in spades when it comes to this franchise, it was time for something new and although I am only a handful of missions in I am enjoying the game immensely.




    Quote Originally Posted by Astros Fan View Post
    I am really enjoying this game. I like the 4 squad lay-out. I SUCK at base building and am having a ball moving these units around to cover and stuff while engaging massive amounts of enemies, setting up ambushes for my assault marines, etc. I liked company of heroes, but keeping up with cranking out waves of dudes and equipments was tedious for me. This gamestyle is perfect for my speed/skill level.
    I agree. What DOW 2 does, it does brilliantly so far in my opionion as well. It could have been the equivalent of Star Trek: Away Team.
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  15. #15
    Sleeps with the Fishes
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    Yeah, I downloaded two patches already. A large one (130mb I think) and a small 10mb patch. I haven't installed the game yet though.

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