Evaluate my my plans for wired gigabit home network...

 Home

News

Forums

Hardware

CPUs

Motherboards

Video

Guides

CPU Prices

RAM Prices


Sharky Extreme : Forums:


Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: Evaluate my my plans for wired gigabit home network...

  1. #1
    Tiger Shark PilatusInc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    MN
    Posts
    728

    Post Evaluate my my plans for wired gigabit home network...



    Next month I am going to start the process of finishing my basement. While I am doing that I am also going to wire my home with Cat5e. I am not a networking expert and have no formal training in networking. I would like for you guys, who know what you are doing, to go through the plans and see if this is the way to go or any suggestion you might have. I know some of you might say, don't mess with this and just stick with WiFi, well I don't agree. WiFi is spotty and has limited bandwidth and with more and more devices connecting to the internet I think this would be a wise investment.

    My plan is to move the DSL modem/router and 8 port switch into the downstairs closet below the stairs, having this be the main distribution point for all the cat5e cables.

    Question: Can you port forward a port to a computer that is connected to a switch?

  2. #2
    Great White Shark
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Posts
    21,595
    The short answer is yes.

    You may wish to put a drop in the kitchen as well. New appliances can be connected to the LAN for management purposes or to use the PC embedded in the refrigerator. Once I bought my wife some kitchen inventory and recipe management software, she uses it every day. Also the new AV equipment can be connected to the net a typical group of equipment uses 4 connections - receiver, tv, video player and set top box.

    I'd consider installing cat-6 wiring for future 10Gbase-T use instead of cat-5e.

  3. #3
    Mako Shark wh666-666's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    In a red kennel
    Posts
    4,577
    Quote Originally Posted by ua549 View Post
    You may wish to put a drop in the kitchen as well. New appliances can be connected to the LAN for management purposes or to use the PC embedded in the refrigerator.
    Good suggestion here. Im putting a couple of points in the kitchen. Great for under cabinet media players as well.






    Quote Originally Posted by ua549 View Post
    I'd consider installing cat-6 wiring for future 10Gbase-T use instead of cat-5e.
    I disagree with this point.

    I would consider it, if money were no object.

    However cat5e is so cheap, I can get reels of the stuff for free off businesses upgrading to cat6.

    Cat6 is a bit overkill for many home users and very expensive. Cat5e is fine for streaming HD, etc etc, more than enough bandwidth, even for video calling and VOIP.






    Quote Originally Posted by PilatusInc View Post


    I would like for you guys, who know what you are doing, to go through the plans and see if this is the way to go or any suggestion you might have. I know some of you might say, don't mess with this and just stick with WiFi, well I don't agree.
    In that diagram you have listed switches but not patch panels? An oversight in the drawing or is it something you havent thought of?

    I disagree with your diagram of where your modem is. There, I would install a 24 port patch panel. You can pick new ones up for a couple of dollars (as many companies are getting 48 port + patch panels).

    Then from the patch panel, depending what ports around the house you have active over the years, you patch from the patch panel to a single switch. 16 port switches are nice and cheap and should be enough for now but you could replace it with a 24 poirt switch in the future.

    That means, throughout the whole house, you can have 24 network points, more than enough looking at your diagram. Then you take each cat5e cable punched down from the back of the patch panels and distribute them among the rooms of your place.

    To clarify a little, here is a picture to show what I mean:


    The wall jacks, usually have one module and a blanking plate, but since they slide apart, you can have two modules in one wall port box, which means you need two cables going to that port instead of one.

    So for example you may need two or more in the kitchen and definitely near the TV. Think of other rooms like the bathroom while you're doing all this work. In my bathroom (once finished) I will have a waterproof tv hooked up to stream TV and music from my server.






    Quote Originally Posted by PilatusInc View Post
    Question: Can you port forward a port to a computer that is connected to a switch?
    You should be able to. Ive never had a problem on this aspect to be honest.
    Last edited by wh666-666; 01-20-2012 at 12:35 PM.
    Compaq A910em: T2330 dual core 1.6Ghz, X3100 384MB GPU, 160GB sata HDD, 2GB RAM
    Gaming rig: Asus Striker II, Coolermaster GX 750w, E4600 @ 2.4Ghz, 2.5GB RAM, Zerotherm FZ 120, 9500GT 1GB
    Server: Mac mini running W23k Server - 1.8Ghz dual-core, 1GB RAM, 1x80GB, 2x500GB externals + LTO1 tape backup

    An important petition, regarding your human rights:
    https://www.change.org/en-GB/petitio...r-both-genders

  4. #4
    Great White Shark
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Posts
    21,595
    With 8k resolution TV being shown at the 2012 CES, it won't be too long before real products and content will available in the marketplace. Add to that the 27 Mbps sound tracks that are currently appearing and bandwidth requirements will skyrocket. Think about sending different audio streams and video streams to each audio player and different audio/video streams to each home theater in the house - all at the same time. You may also be recording/downloading media concurrently as well.

    Cat 6 prices are falling as it is being replaced by cat 6a. Here cat 6 cable sells for about $80 per 1000' spool. The premium over cat 5e is a cheap price to pay to near future proof the network wiring. The wire is cheap compared to the construction labor costs associated with opening walls, pulling cable, etc. I've upgraded cable infrastructure 3 times - 10 Mbps coax to 100 Mbps cat5 to 1000Mbps cat5e. I'll move before I have to upgrade to 10Gbps wiring. I should have installed 50/125 um3 fiber instead of the cat 5. I would have saved money.

  5. #5
    Tiger Shark PilatusInc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    MN
    Posts
    728
    In that diagram you have listed switches but not patch panels? An oversight in the drawing or is it something you havent thought of?
    I did not have a "patch panel" listed in the drawing... I have no idea what it is and really why I need it. I looked at your drawing but I still don't see why I need it if I have enough ports available in the switch?

    Originally Posted by ua549
    You may wish to put a drop in the kitchen as well. New appliances can be connected to the LAN for management purposes or to use the PC embedded in the refrigerator.
    Good idea, I will be running a line to the kitchen near the Fridge.

    Originally Posted by ua549
    I'd consider installing cat-6 wiring for future 10Gbase-T use instead of cat-5e.
    I will look at the cost of both cat6 and cat5e and will definitely choose cat6 if the price is right.



    OK, so far apparently I need to add a patch panel to the equation... is the 5 port switch by my entertainment center (TV, DVD, Dish DVR, Media Server) Necessary, or would a plain old hub at that location work? This Media Server that I have hooked up to my TV has a lot of ports forwarded for FTP and other applications, is my FTP server still going to work from this location behind switches and hubs?
    Last edited by PilatusInc; 01-20-2012 at 08:13 PM.

  6. #6
    Great White Shark
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Posts
    21,595
    Do not use a hub because it is a 1970's technology utilizing shared port technology operating at the physical layer where everything connected to it is in a single collision domain. Switches operate at the data link layer and eliminate the collision domain. They are much better than a hub and quite inexpensive. Explanation

    Make sure that the ancillary components such as connectors you use are rated as high as the cable you select. Network performance is reduced to the level of the lowest common denominator. This is readily apparent in the length of wiring runs that work without a large number of communications errors.

    A switch has no impact on IP port forwarding by other equipment. A switch is gi-go (garbage in - garbage out) as it is only concerned with mac addresses for switching.

  7. #7
    Mako Shark wh666-666's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    In a red kennel
    Posts
    4,577
    Quote Originally Posted by PilatusInc View Post
    I did not have a "patch panel" listed in the drawing... I have no idea what it is and really why I need it. I looked at your drawing but I still don't see why I need it if I have enough ports available in the switch?
    For the sake of a couple of dollars, it's worth it. It will be so much more organised having a patch panel labelled with where each cable goes to. It will make your life in years to come so much easier.

    Imagine up to 24 cables coming in near the modem, with rj45 jacks on the end, just flopping out of the ceiling/etc. Very untidy. Also rj45 jacks sometimes do perish and the clips break. If they do and you just have the loose cables dangling down or in the switch, you have to snip it shorter to place on a new connector, causing further headaches as over the years, cables now wont reach like the did before. This is a major ballache when they go up through the ceiling, across the property, etc. A hint as well on the wall jack end, leave a little slack in case you ever need to rewire a jack in the future as a kid rams a crayon in to a port.

    You may not at this time need cables to every room. My house for example has 24 points servicing every room with multiple points in every room. Not every port is in use and not every cable on my patch panel hooked up to the switch. However if I have children at some point, they will occupy a room and need a port activating, a guest or we move in to a different bedroom or I move my gaming setup to another room, all I have to do is swap a plug on my patch panel or add extra patch cables between the patch panel and switch.

    The reason why I suggest doing it this way, is because as times change, your requirements might as well. Once your patch panel is in place, you will never need to rewire it, unlike patch cables which you might.

    Also I suggested just having the one single switch. In your diagram you have one switch near the TV, with a single line fed back the the main switch. That means network bandwidth is potentially limited on every device hooked up to the second switch. If every device/port runs back to a patch panel, running in to its own port on the switch, you get maximum connectivity across your LAN.
    Compaq A910em: T2330 dual core 1.6Ghz, X3100 384MB GPU, 160GB sata HDD, 2GB RAM
    Gaming rig: Asus Striker II, Coolermaster GX 750w, E4600 @ 2.4Ghz, 2.5GB RAM, Zerotherm FZ 120, 9500GT 1GB
    Server: Mac mini running W23k Server - 1.8Ghz dual-core, 1GB RAM, 1x80GB, 2x500GB externals + LTO1 tape backup

    An important petition, regarding your human rights:
    https://www.change.org/en-GB/petitio...r-both-genders

  8. #8
    Mako Shark wh666-666's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    In a red kennel
    Posts
    4,577
    Quote Originally Posted by ua549 View Post
    With 8k resolution TV being shown at the 2012 CES, it won't be too long before real products and content will available in the marketplace. Add to that the 27 Mbps sound tracks that are currently appearing and bandwidth requirements will skyrocket. Think about sending different audio streams and video streams to each audio player and different audio/video streams to each home theater in the house - all at the same time. You may also be recording/downloading media concurrently as well.

    Cat 6 prices are falling as it is being replaced by cat 6a. Here cat 6 cable sells for about $80 per 1000' spool. The premium over cat 5e is a cheap price to pay to near future proof the network wiring. The wire is cheap compared to the construction labor costs associated with opening walls, pulling cable, etc. I've upgraded cable infrastructure 3 times - 10 Mbps coax to 100 Mbps cat5 to 1000Mbps cat5e. I'll move before I have to upgrade to 10Gbps wiring. I should have installed 50/125 um3 fiber instead of the cat 5. I would have saved money.
    I would agree it depends on an individuals budget and requirements.

    Budget was important for me. I got all the cat5e I needed for free, rather than buying it for 1 per 10m. Cat6 when I looked was around 1 for 2m. My jacks and backboxes as well as my patch panel cost me 40. That was the complete cost to network my house. I have an old switch from work when they upgraded to gigabit switches. Works perfectly well, all I had to do is reconfig it as they were gonna chuck it out as they thought it was faulty.

    My requirements havent really changed much in the past decade or so. I still have older computers. Most of my PC ports are just standard 100mb. All I ever need to do is stream and fileshare. I probably wont ever go with high res. Ive only just gone from getting rid of the VHS and sticking to DVD. I dont like paying inflated costs for blueray and only get HD when I cant get a program in any other format. My main TV is still a cathode tube TV! My next TV, im thinking just a standard projector, so no problems there.

    In short, I can be highly confident cat5e will last me for decades, perhaps life as I dont keep up too much with cutting edge technology for myself. However I see your point, others differ and if the cost of cat6 isnt too far away from cat5e for some, then cat6 may be a sensible investment. But most older equipment and some new equipment ports are limited to mb and unable to benefit from gb connections.

    However I feel fibre would still be far too highly priced for many and the ports and connectors on most equipment lacking.
    Compaq A910em: T2330 dual core 1.6Ghz, X3100 384MB GPU, 160GB sata HDD, 2GB RAM
    Gaming rig: Asus Striker II, Coolermaster GX 750w, E4600 @ 2.4Ghz, 2.5GB RAM, Zerotherm FZ 120, 9500GT 1GB
    Server: Mac mini running W23k Server - 1.8Ghz dual-core, 1GB RAM, 1x80GB, 2x500GB externals + LTO1 tape backup

    An important petition, regarding your human rights:
    https://www.change.org/en-GB/petitio...r-both-genders

  9. #9
    Tiger Shark PilatusInc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    MN
    Posts
    728
    Quote Originally Posted by wh666-666 View Post
    For the sake of a couple of dollars, it's worth it. It will be so much more organised having a patch panel labelled with where each cable goes to. It will make your life in years to come so much easier.
    Thank you for your input... Patch Panel makes sense now, definitively going to get one. Your suggestion to run multiple Cat5e or Cat6 lines to the TV entertainment center makes sense as well. I will probably run a dedicated line for the media server and the the TV, DVD and DishDVR can share a connection since the will not all be using it at the same time anyways.

  10. #10
    Great White Shark
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Posts
    21,595
    The reality is that you will probably be using the TV and DVR at the same time by viewing the TV while either recording on the DVR or streaming already recorded content to another TV or PC. When I upgraded my AV equipment, I found all sorts of uses I never imagined. One capability that is frequently used is listening to internet radio through the receiver while my wife watches content from web sites - mostly from HGTV.com and FoodNetwork.com.

  11. #11
    Mako Shark wh666-666's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    In a red kennel
    Posts
    4,577
    Yea I was only going to put one jack in by my TV for my streamer, but decided to put in two so I had a spare.

    Glad I did, as I decided to network up my DVR later!

    One thing I love, which Im going to get more of is music streamers and Im not even a massive music fan. It would be nice to have one in each room.
    Compaq A910em: T2330 dual core 1.6Ghz, X3100 384MB GPU, 160GB sata HDD, 2GB RAM
    Gaming rig: Asus Striker II, Coolermaster GX 750w, E4600 @ 2.4Ghz, 2.5GB RAM, Zerotherm FZ 120, 9500GT 1GB
    Server: Mac mini running W23k Server - 1.8Ghz dual-core, 1GB RAM, 1x80GB, 2x500GB externals + LTO1 tape backup

    An important petition, regarding your human rights:
    https://www.change.org/en-GB/petitio...r-both-genders

  12. #12
    Tiger Shark PilatusInc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    MN
    Posts
    728
    Ok, so I finally got everything installed, got a Trendnet 8 Port Gigabit switch and upgraded all computers with Gigabit Ethernet cards. I ended up running Cat 5e cause it was dirt cheap and that way I could run cable to pretty much every corner of the house.

    Now my concerns, I started running a program called "Lan Speed Test 1.1.7" to test my network transfer speeds. Here are my results from a Acer Aspire 6930 Laptop to an HP Pavilion a1640n (Media Server), both running Windows 7.

    ______________Write_-_Read
    Packet Length: 10GB - 10GB
    MB/Sec: 28.4 - 56.1
    Mbps: 227.5 - 449.1

    Packet Length: 1GB - 1GB
    MB/Sec: 35.1 - 53.5
    Mbps: 281.5 - 427.6

    Packet Length: 100MB - 100 MB
    MB/Sec: 42.6 - 54.9
    Mbps: 341.0 - 439.5

    Packet Length: 10MB - 10MB
    MB/Sec: 69.6 - 77.7
    Mbps: 557.2 - 621.4

    Packet Length: 1MB - 1MB
    MB/Sec: 64.1 - 74.2
    Mbps: 512.7 - 593.2


    As you can see it's at best half a Gigabit. Am I being limited to the performance of the computers reading and writing the information or is there something else wrong?
    Last edited by PilatusInc; 02-24-2012 at 10:52 AM.

  13. #13
    Sushi
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    1

    Nothing wrong

    You forget that the connection is duplex, meaning both directions at the same time.
    So half the bandwidth is coming and half is going. Or in other words, 4 of the 8 wires inside the cat5e is sending and 4 is receiving. So from laptop to server is going and would be half of a GB.
    Of course some hardware can change that for example when having telephone and network on the same cable, 2 wires are for telephone and 6 are for data.

  14. #14
    Tiger Shark PilatusInc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    MN
    Posts
    728
    Quote Originally Posted by montrose439 View Post
    You forget that the connection is duplex, meaning both directions at the same time.
    So half the bandwidth is coming and half is going. Or in other words, 4 of the 8 wires inside the cat5e is sending and 4 is receiving. So from laptop to server is going and would be half of a GB.
    Of course some hardware can change that for example when having telephone and network on the same cable, 2 wires are for telephone and 6 are for data.
    Gotcha, makes sense. But do those speeds seem up to par? I noticed while doing large file transfers that write speed is much slower than the read speed...

  15. #15
    The Professional Mod vertices's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Palm Coast, FL
    Posts
    5,996
    It's your storage limiting you. Full duplex Gigabit is 1000 each way, or 2000 simultaneously if you max both send and recieve. Full duplex Gigabit sends and receives on all 4 pairs simultaneously.

    I often see transfer speeds of 90MBps or even a bit more over single Gigabit connections with faster storage.

    Your speeds seem normal for your storage endpoints.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •