Next Gen Console Specs- It Begins

[ImaNihilist]

The next iPhone will probably surpass the graphics capabilities of the current console generation.

Unless Microsoft and Sony move to a 12-18mo release cycle they are going to get spanked by cell phones. They must realize this at some level. This 5yr+ lifecycle can not survive.

In which case, perhaps moving to x86 does make sense, because developers won't have time to learn code on a new platform every 18 months.

[Kamakazie]

Yeah, just a wee bit of polish separates these games between generations:

Nicely done.

[Squirrel Meat]

The next iPhone will probably surpass the graphics capabilities of the current console generation.

Unless Microsoft and Sony move to a 12-18mo release cycle they are going to get spanked by cell phones. They must realize this at some level. This 5yr+ lifecycle can not survive.

In which case, perhaps moving to x86 does make sense, because developers won't have time to learn code on a new platform every 18 months.

yeah especially when you look at services like OnLive that allow me to stream console and computer games straight to my tablet which is hooked up via hdmi to my tv and i can rent them for super cheap or buy them for cheap.....kinda makes buying a new console for $500 seem rediculous. Not to mention (just like you said) the graphics capability that is coming out of phones and tablets these days are just getting awesome. the new ipad and nvidias tegra 3 are really starting to push the envelope really hard. its interesting to see how nvidia really jumped on android games (well i guess not to interesting but ya get what i mean lol).
even look at f2p games that run in your web browser like drakensang...thats just done using flash/js/html5 or whatever and runs IN YOUR WEB BROWSER and looks pretty dang good. there isnt going to be much of a need for consoles by the time they actually come out.

[Johnmcl7]

I don't really agree simply because in a few weeks, it will be seven years (considerably longer than 12-18 months) since the Xbox 360 was launched and that's a heck of a long time for technology so I'd say it's the opposite as even with that amount of time, phones haven't caught up yet. Any new console is going to restart that huge gap again because they don't have any of the limitations a mobile device has as their power usage can be a hundred times higher.

Moving to a short release cycle completely destroys one of the main advantages consoles have and personally it makes no different to me if mobile phones are slowly approaching the console graphics, I haven't come across any mobile game that comes even remotely close to a decent home console game.

John

[kpxgq]

The next iPhone will probably surpass the graphics capabilities of the current console generation.

Unless Microsoft and Sony move to a 12-18mo release cycle they are going to get spanked by cell phones. They must realize this at some level. This 5yr+ lifecycle can not survive.

In which case, perhaps moving to x86 does make sense, because developers won't have time to learn code on a new platform every 18 months.

hell, phone technology is already surpassing desktop PC tech in many respects (ie look at the retina display and the HD AMOLED displays compared to desktop monitors which are mostly still low ppi TN panels).. i think my smartphone is actually my 2nd most powerful "computer" after my dedicated gaming rig lol:

- gaming rig: 3ghz dual core, 8gb ram, radeon 6870, 1920x1080 ips display
- phone: 1.5ghz dual core, 1gb ram, powerVR SGX540, 720p OLED display
- HTPC: 1ghz dual core, 2gb ram, hooked up to a 1080p plasma
- server: 1.6ghz dual core, 2gb ram

[Trunks]

If you want to believe the new specs for the 720, what would be the reasoning behind using an hd7000? I would think that there would be much more graphical horsepower that that...

[Squirrel Meat]

I don't really agree simply because in a few weeks, it will be seven years (considerably longer than 12-18 months) since the Xbox 360 was launched and that's a heck of a long time for technology so I'd say it's the opposite as even with that amount of time, phones haven't caught up yet. Any new console is going to restart that huge gap again because they don't have any of the limitations a mobile device has as their power usage can be a hundred times higher.

Moving to a short release cycle completely destroys one of the main advantages consoles have and personally it makes no different to me if mobile phones are slowly approaching the console graphics, I haven't come across any mobile game that comes even remotely close to a decent home console game.

John

yeah but phones capable of gaming havent been out for 7 years...and no im not talking about snake either. just in the last year or so have we jumped to dual core phones and by this summer we will have quad core phones. mobile tech is moving faster than anything else right now. im willing to bet that by the time the next xbox and ps come out, tablets and phones will have console graphics of this generation. its not that hard to see. in the last 3 years we went from atari graphics to ps2/xbox graphics and even better. its pretty damn impressive.

[Kamakazie]

yeah but phones capable of gaming havent been out for 7 years...and no im not talking about snake either. just in the last year or so have we jumped to dual core phones and by this summer we will have quad core phones. mobile tech is moving faster than anything else right now. im willing to bet that by the time the next xbox and ps come out, tablets and phones will have console graphics of this generation. its not that hard to see. in the last 3 years we went from atari graphics to ps2/xbox graphics and even better. its pretty damn impressive.

The fact that I can have GTA 3 on my phone and it looks better than it did on the PS2 is mind blowing to me.

[Timman_24]

The fact that I can have GTA 3 on my phone and it looks better than it did on the PS2 is mind blowing to me.

That game is over 10 years old. That's like being amazed you could play space invaders on a Game boy.

[ImaNihilist]

I hate Infiniti Blade II, but it's kind of a marvel on the new iPad. Looks like a 360 game, but renders out at 2048x1536 without a hiccup.

[James]

I hate Infiniti Blade II, but it's kind of a marvel on the new iPad. Looks like a 360 game, but renders out at 2048x1536 without a hiccup.

Am I the only one who would like to see details on how they do that? Memory bandwidth alone should be a massively limiting factor. Then there is the simple fill rate required to put up 30fps (or 60fps) of 2048x1536 pixels on the screen. There has to be a lot trickery going on. It's not a bad thing, I just think that it should be widely known what they are doing.

*Edit: They amazingly have approx 12.8GB/s of theoretical bandwidth to play with. However the memory controller is apparently limited to around 2GB/s. The games and other "intensive" content are never rendered at native resolution. Instead they render at a half-step between 1024x768 and 2048x1536, and then are simply stretched to fit. I have a feeling that if a 3D game tried to render on that system at native res, the tablet would melt.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5688/a...-2012-review/3

Infinity Blade 2 for the new iPad Renders at roughly 1.4x the iPad 2's resolution, then upscales to fill the screen

*Edit2: Depending on how they count 1.4x resolution, I.e. pixel count or dimensions, this is either impressive or truly sad.

Res.	Pixels	Horz	Vert	Base	Notes
  1x	 786432	1024	768	256
1.4x	1101708	1212	909	303	(1.4x pixel count)
  2x	1541120	1433	1075	358.4	(1.4x resolution)
  4x	3145738	2048	1536	512

*Edit3: If a home console tried to pull partial resolution rendering, it would be lambasted by the media and the consumers alike. You can get away with a lot of half measures in order to get "equivalent" performance on a mobile platform. But that sort of thing doesn't fly when you don't have the excuse of extreme power and heat limitations.

[Kamakazie]

That game is over 10 years old. That's like being amazed you could play space invaders on a Game boy.

I am getting old! MY MIND IS BLOWN!

[Squirrel Meat]

I am getting old! MY MIND IS BLOWN!

Right?! When you said that I was like "yeah! help me make my point!" and then little Timmy over here had to go pop my bubble....that was 10 years ago.....oh man. I am getting old haha. I was a senior in high school when that game came out. mabey even a junior.

@James
Yes ive been dying to know how they do that lol. TBH im not really suprised by any kind of graphics trickery these days. Seems like everyone does it, either through wierd resolution/textures, up/down scaling or through video drivers.
But still, I dont see 2048x1536 too hard to pull off. The original was 1024x768 (Infinity Blade) and that was ran with a dual core gpu, and now it has a quad core gpu. Dont know if it scales up quite like that (im laughing at myself right now btw).

[ImaNihilist]

Am I the only one who would like to see details on how they do that? Memory bandwidth alone should be a massively limiting factor. Then there is the simple fill rate required to put up 30fps (or 60fps) of 2048x1536 pixels on the screen. There has to be a lot trickery going on. It's not a bad thing, I just think that it should be widely known what they are doing.

*Edit: They amazingly have approx 12.8GB/s of theoretical bandwidth to play with. However the memory controller is apparently limited to around 2GB/s. The games and other "intensive" content are never rendered at native resolution. Instead they render at a half-step between 1024x768 and 2048x1536, and then are simply stretched to fit. I have a feeling that if a 3D game tried to render on that system at native res, the tablet would melt.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5688/a...-2012-review/3


*Edit2: Depending on how they count 1.4x resolution, I.e. pixel count or dimensions, this is either impressive or truly sad.

Res.	Pixels	Horz	Vert	Base	Notes
  1x	 786432	1024	768	256
1.4x	1101708	1212	909	303	(1.4x pixel count)
  2x	1541120	1433	1075	358.4	(1.4x resolution)
  4x	3145738	2048	1536	512

*Edit3: If a home console tried to pull partial resolution rendering, it would be lambasted by the media and the consumers alike. You can get away with a lot of half measures in order to get "equivalent" performance on a mobile platform. But that sort of thing doesn't fly when you don't have the excuse of extreme power and heat limitations.

Very interesting. And yeah, there is a lot of trickery going on. I don't think anyone disputes that. I've never been involved in a mobile game. I too would love to know how they manage to do those things, or if it's some kind of black magic built into the SDKs. I'm guessing a little of both.

[Timman_24]

Infinity Blade II looks to have low-poly geometry, low resolution textures, with focus on post processing filters to get the vibrant graphical look. You may notice there is only one light source as well and the map lighting is probably pre-rendered into the level. There is also a lot of use of 2D sprites and backdrops.

It isn't as much a technical achievement as it is an artistic one.