Microsoft Bob, version 8

[Geforce255]

Over the years, Microsoft has made some astounding blunders with operating systems and GUI builds. MS-DOS 4.0 was a complete disaster, Windows 1.0 was also an unmitigated disaster. Windows ME and Vista also had issues with the public.

But perhaps the most infamous of Microsoft operating environments was MS-Bob.



Bob was a crapaliscious dung heap foisted on the public. Bob was mostly useless. An interface that did nothing to enhance computing. Someone thought Bob was "cute" and that the computing world was just dying for cute.

But really, Bob was garbage with not purpose to exist. So Bob faded from memory like a bad toothache.

Jump forward in time, and Bob has risen from the dungheap of history. This time to be called "Windows 8," or more appropriately, Metro.

Let me toss in a disclaimer; the first time I saw and used the Aero interface, I thought "this is it, this is EXACTLY what a user interface should be." Aero is the high-water mark for an interface between man an machine.

So Microsoft has taken the brilliance that is Aero, completely discarded it, and replaced it with a blocky mess that obscures the desktop. Oh, you can forget about elegantly docked windows that let you keep a dozen programs running. The Aero peak feature the so brilliantly lets you manage running programs in the command bar is gone, because Metro makes multitasking a thing of the past. XBox doesn't multitask, so why would anyone want to? Open a program, and it will obscure all else. Oh, and good luck finding applications. Microsoft wants you to spend your time at the XBox live store, not doing mundane tasks like Excel or Email. Speaking of Email, see that ugly box that says email? Don't expect it to launch Outlook and connect to an Exchange server, nope, Microsoft doesn't appear too friendly to the idea that people would use computers for something other than the XBox live marketplace. That ugly block will launch the Windows Mail program and try to get you to use MS Cloud mail (MSN Mail by another name still smell like an outhouse.) Just because the machine has an installed copy of Outlook that is fully configured to a professional mail system doesn't seem to move Metro Bob. Ditto the ugly block that says "Calendar." Don't expect it to actually load your Outlook calendar, use a Google Android device for that, Microsoft will have nothing to do with it.

Overall, Windows 8 brings nothing to the party. There are no significant advances in the OS to warrant an upgrade. The major change is the Metro UI, which is designed for cell phones and video game consoles, with apparently no thought of how it will affect computer users.

The consumer preview is still beta, and maybe Microsoft will somehow create a usable system. But I don't see how, given the complete mess that is Metro. Ugly and clumsy, with the worst task handling I've seen since Mac OS 1.0

Metro salvages Bob from the position of the worst UI in history in the same way that Obama salvages Jimmy Carter.

[drdoom]

Good question what exactly does Windows 8 offer? Microsoft still thinks it's the only OS in town when it comes to PC's. As far as I'm concerned it's a gaming OS. Everything else I do works just fine on Windows XP(in some cases better) and Linux.

[Geforce255]

Kind of sad, no one to defend Window 8...

[ImaNihilist]

The OS itself isn't such a big deal. We no longer depend on the OS, or the OS vendor, to provide tools.

The success or failure of Windows 8 relies in the developer tools, and if they can win back developers. Microsoft used to make a lot of the software that worked with the OS. Internet Explorer, FrontPage, Outlook, Encarta, the rest of Office, Windows Media Player, etc.. None of that matters any more. MS Office is the only one that matters at all, even then not so much. DirectX is the only piece of software which can't be decoupled from Windows these days.

Don't know what people's problem is with Metro. It's different, but better in a world were we care more about apps than a desktop—which is the world we live in whether you like it or not. To think otherwise is just showing your age, like those who came before you complaining that the GUI itself was just for idiots who couldn't memorize a few commands.

I will gladly use Windows 8 if developers actually make software worth using.

[Geforce255]

The OS itself isn't such a big deal. We no longer depend on the OS, or the OS vendor, to provide tools.

Who is "we?"

Of course we depend on the OS to provide tools. I need LDAP and an API to get at it to identify who is accessing resources. I need active directory or an equivalent to provide a comprehensive method of regulating access to and management of resources. I need Kerberose or equivilent to offer security. I need Remote Desktop, because VNC sucks eggs. I need Citrix to offer viable access to critical data and functions to remote users, which relies on RDP.

If someone does nothing but watch YouTube and download iTunes, then yes, the OS doesn't matter. But for those who use computers to, you know, compute, then the OS is a vital component for devising a solution.

The success or failure of Windows 8 relies in the developer tools, and if they can win back developers. Microsoft used to make a lot of the software that worked with the OS. Internet Explorer, FrontPage, Outlook, Encarta, the rest of Office, Windows Media Player, etc.. None of that matters any more. MS Office is the only one that matters at all, even then not so much. DirectX is the only piece of software which can't be decoupled from Windows these days.

These are irrelevant.

The majority of computers are sold to business. Business needs to track inventory, offer customer relationship management, manage a supply chain, invoice and collect cash, track purchases, age payables, cut checks, offer payroll, produce financial statements, et al.

The best response to the old Apple FUD campaign would have been to have the PC guy with an accountants visor on, then the Mac slacker walks in;

Mac Hey PC, whatcha doing

PC Oh, I'm crunching an MRP to provide a production schedule so the company can stay in business and continue to employ 30,000 people.

Mac A what? What's MRP? I can run iLife...

Don't know what people's problem is with Metro.

It sucks. It retards the ability of the user to get to critical functions. Just locating programs is difficult.

It's different, but better in a world were we care more about apps than a desktop

Quite the opposite. In a world where a productive user has a dozen programs running with synergy between them, the UI of Aero fully supports the motif. the Metro UI hinders the ability of the user to multitask effectively.

—which is the world we live in whether you like it or not. To think otherwise is just showing your age, like those who came before you complaining that the GUI itself was just for idiots who couldn't memorize a few commands.

I live in a world where goods and services must be produced, packaged and sold. Where a computer is a tool to aid in the process. Metro is a poor tool that does not offer assistance in getting the job done.

I will gladly use Windows 8 if developers actually make software worth using.

I, on the other hand, will not. Nor will I deploy it to my user base. Nor will thousands of other IT Directors and managers across the nation.

In my opinion, this is the most serious stumble Microsoft has made in decades, at a critical point.

I don't think Microsoft is even a player in the mobility game. Android will dominate with IOS holding a solid and fanatical following. I have dozens of tablets deployed, none of them run Windows. IF Microsoft sacrifices the desktop in the illusion that they will capture the mobility market, then they deserve to follow Lotus and Wordperfect, once behemoths, into obscurity.

[ImaNihilist]

How old are you? What industry do you work in? You have another thread about RDP, but who manages a server through a UI? Are you trying to manage an old NT server?

The majority of computers are sold to business. Business needs to track inventory, offer customer relationship management, manage a supply chain, invoice and collect cash, track purchases, age payables, cut checks, offer payroll, produce financial statements, et al.

All of this is done through the web today. No one is buying into proprietary desktop software to do this. I haven't even SEEN that kind of software in years. Are you talking about desktop executables?

You're views on computing are very…10-15 years ago. They still apply to giant multinationals and who are stuck 10 years in the past, but even the multinationals are getting away from all that baggage.

[MrDigital]

All of this is done through the web today. No one is buying into proprietary desktop software to do this. I haven't even SEEN that kind of software in years. Are you talking about desktop executables?

This whole statement is 100% wrong. You aren't even involved in IT support in any way, are you? Maybe you spend too much time in San Francisco and think everywhere is like that nonsense, but you couldn't be any more wrong.

The vast, VAST majority of companies continue to purchase software to do business tasks. While web applications (including rental software like the latest Office and Adobe Collection) are certainly growing, desktop software has hardly been relegated to the level of obsolescence you'd like to paint it as being. I assume you make money doing web applications and thus it's in your best interest to paint your field as being much larger than it actually is.

[ImaNihilist]

This whole statement is 100% wrong. You aren't even involved in IT support in any way, are you? Maybe you spend too much time in San Francisco and think everywhere is like that nonsense, but you couldn't be any more wrong.

The vast, VAST majority of companies continue to purchase software to do business tasks. While web applications (including rental software like the latest Office and Adobe Collection) are certainly growing, desktop software has hardly been relegated to the level of obsolescence you'd like to paint it as being. I assume you make money doing web applications and thus it's in your best interest to paint your field as being much larger than it actually is.

When I say, "Done through the web today" I don't mean literally done through the web by everyone. I mean that it can be done through the browser, and so anyone large company purchasing software today is not purchasing desktop software for Windows. Not if they have any sense.

[Timman_24]

I do not know about the industrial side of things, but in the scientific community we still are closely tied with the OS be it Linux or Windows. I've only seen a few "web apps" used in our field and they were specially made to control lab equipment remotely. Wolfram Alpha is nice, but does not offer the functionality that is required for most engineers or scientists. Most modeling is still done through MatLab or Python, which are either licensed or free.

There is only one professor in my department that uses a Mac and he constantly struggles with support. He will be switching to PC the next time he upgrades.

As for Windows 8. I do not see the business world moving to that OS from Win 7 anytime soon. Most stayed with XP while Vista came out, I see that playing out again. The last thing a business needs with OS software is to have to reteach everyone how to use it for weeks. Win 8 offer no additional functionality for the typical desktop user.

[Geforce255]

How old are you? What industry do you work in? You have another thread about RDP, but who manages a server through a UI? Are you trying to manage an old NT server?

LOL

My servers are a mixture of 2003 and 2008R2.

Yeah, pretty much everyone manages them through the UI.

All of this is done through the web today.

Right, because everyone has a gigabit link to their home and office, either that or they don't mind a 15 minute screen refresh...

LOL.

No one is buying into proprietary desktop software to do this. I haven't even SEEN that kind of software in years. Are you talking about desktop executables?

Yep, you're right.

SAP, Peoplesoft, Oracle, Dynamics, FAS ERP, etc are all non-existent, things of the distant past, before a Mac an iTunes was the only thing needed.

You're views on computing are very…10-15 years ago. They still apply to giant multinationals and who are stuck 10 years in the past, but even the multinationals are getting away from all that baggage.

Oh, is that what it is?

Hmmm, here I thought it was because I manage an actual, working organization that has to perform and provide results...

[ImaNihilist]

Right, because everyone has a gigabit link to their home and office, either that or they don't mind a 15 minute screen refresh...

What does gigabit broadband have to do with anything? I'm just saying that most software is moving to the browser. Even the big companies like Oracle are feeling it and moving more resources to support such things.

[proxops-pete]

Alright... I know Windows vs Mac will never end... but please keep things civil... you know who you are...

That said, PC games will always keep me ... well, on Windows PC. Never been fan of Mac or running Windows on Mac... and for me, specialized software for CFD (engineering) like Tecplot and FieldView exist only on 2 platforms: Linux and Windows.

EDIT: Nm... just checked Tecplot website and they do have Mac version! o.O The other thing is that in big corporations like the one I work for, Macs are just too expensive... I have to fight for all the hardware I need... so due to cost, it will be Windows machine...

And let me just say, I run them on Linux. Which reminds me... would someone care to explain why they can't just port Linux software to run on Mac OS X as it's based on Linux?????

[Geforce255]

What does gigabit broadband have to do with anything?

Think about it.

When a company is talking to a customer and need information, they open up the customer file. If they are hitting the local SQL or Oracle server, this is done over a gigabit link, and response is instant.

If this is on the cloud with a T1, were are talking 1.5mbps with several minutes to pull the record up.

I'm just saying that most software is moving to the browser. Even the big companies like Oracle are feeling it and moving more resources to support such things.

Software as a service has a lot of advantages for the software vendors. It truly makes software a rental, and ensures a revenue stream for groups like Oracle. But it isn't anywhere near ready for prime time, mostly due to the lack of infrastructure. Until a minimum 100mbps can be ensured across the internet, cloud computing will be the domain of iTunes and photo sharing sites.

Even supposed SaaS packages such as Salesforce dump hundreds of gigs of data on local SQL servers to offer semi-acceptable performance.

Cloud computing may be inevitable, but it's a decade away from being widely adopted. We need bandwidth to make it happen.

[Geforce255]

Alright... I know Windows vs Mac will never end... but please keep things civil... you know who you are...

That said, PC games will always keep me ... well, on Windows PC. Never been fan of Mac or running Windows on Mac... and for me, specialized software for CFD (engineering) like Tecplot and FieldView exist only on 2 platforms: Linux and Windows.

EDIT: Nm... just checked Tecplot website and they do have Mac version! o.O The other thing is that in big corporations like the one I work for, Macs are just too expensive... I have to fight for all the hardware I need... so due to cost, it will be Windows machine...

And let me just say, I run them on Linux. Which reminds me... would someone care to explain why they can't just port Linux software to run on Mac OS X as it's based on Linux?????

Mac is based on BSD, not Linux.

I agree with you that Windows and Linux are the only platforms I view as viable. With the disaster that is Windows 8, Linux is becoming a lot more viable.

My servers will stay Windows, but Citrix makes deploying Linux work stations a snap. That's why I was playing with Ubuntu in a VM. If I could spawn several sessions off of a single VM like I can with Windows, a lot more of my users would be moved to a Linux environment.

[ImaNihilist]

I don't really see it as "Mac vs PC". It's more just the reality that Windows is no longer the dominate platform.

In 1998 there was only one platform. It was Windows. That was it. The only "apps" were Windows applications, and the main provider was Microsoft and few partners. That was the majority of computing. It was Microsoft on the desktop, server, and mobile. Everyone used Windows. There really weren't any shops or businesses that didn't use Windows.

It's a totally different world today. Today the new platform is the browser. Applications have largely been de-coupled from the OS. Linux runs a large part of the server world. Most of the Internet runs on open-source software. You no longer have to buy a license from Microsoft or Oracle for database software. Web-based products aren't designed on Windows, and they aren't designed for Windows. Windows is, in most cases, a choice—not a necessity.

Windows 8 recognizes this new world and doesn't pretend like everyone uses Windows, and only Windows, all day long. If Microsoft were to ignore the new world and just pretend like it's 1998 people will continue to choose not to use Windows on the desktop, and it will be relegated to the "workstation" and nothing more.

Windows 8, and the new WP7 are just about the only thing that Microsoft has put lately that make me feel like they may have a second shot at growth in the new computing market. To compare Microsoft Bob to Windows 8 is a fundamental misunderstanding of the market. Truth be told, Bob wasn't even such a bad idea, just a horrible execution. The actual idea for Bob was more "1) Tell the computer what you want to do, and (2) it will do it." Problem was it didn't really let you do either.