I NEED a new rig. PLEASE read and help?!

[ThorneDarcloud]

So, it's been about 3 years since I built my current computer. New technologies are blazing past my rig and new games make it want to cry. I'm not making this thread so those of Sharky do the work for me, more I want resources to help me build my next machine. I don't want flamewars, just user experiences with hardware, links to good reviews and info and possibly technical numbers (benchmarks, etc.) to help me in this process.

I figure I should be able to double the speed and performance of my current setup, if not triple it, within a $1,500 budget, which is about the amount of money I spent on the current box.

The current box:
A-Bit NF7 2.0, nForce 2
Athlon XP 2500+ (Barton) OC'ed to 3200+
2x Corsair Value RAM, PC 2700, 512MB
ATI Radeon 9700PRO
PATA Hard Drives
Thermaltake Xaser II Full Tower, 5 80mm fans
RaidMax 450w PSU, 3-Fan
Thermalright (forgot model...) HS with Thermaltake SmartFanII

What I want to have is a system that will last as long as this one did. A good 2-3 year lifespan will make me happy. A baseline of what I want is a system with a dual-core AMD CPU, an ATI 512MB video card with a GPU running at least 600MHZ, 2GB of PC4000 RAM, a nice PSU that will keep itself cool and has wrapped cables and a lightweight full-ATX case with fans that won't keep me up at night while also keeping my system nice and cool.

I have been window shopping and reading reviews like a mad-man; here is what I am thinking about getting:

ATX Computer Cases
Qty. Product Description Unit Price Savings Total Price 1 Thermaltake Tsunami VA3000BWA Black Aluminum ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail
Model #: VA3000BWA
Item #: N82E16811133132
$108.99

Internal Hard Drives
Qty. Product Description Unit Price Savings Total Price 2 Seagate Barracuda 7200.8 ST3250823AS 250GB 7200 RPM Serial ATA150 Hard Drive - OEM
Model #: ST3250823AS
Item #: N82E16822148065
$206.00

AMD-compatible Motherboards
Qty. Product Description Unit Price Savings Total Price 1 ABIT AN8 Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
Model #: AN8
Item #: N82E16813127197
$94.00

Video Cards
Qty. Product Description Unit Price Savings Total Price 1 ATI 100-435805 Radeon X1900XTX 512MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card - Retail
Model #: 100-435805
Item #: N82E16814195003
$649.00

Power Supplies
Qty. Product Description Unit Price Savings Total Price 1 Thermaltake Silent Pure Power W0049RUC ATX12V/ EPS12V 680W Power Supply - Retail
Model #: W0049RUC
Item #: N82E16817153021
$169.00

Fans, Heatsinks (Case, CPU, Chipset)
Qty. Product Description Unit Price Savings Total Price 1 ZALMAN CNPS9500 LED 92mm 2 Ball Blue LED Light Cooling Fan with Heatsink - Retail
Model #: CNPS 9500 LED
Item #: N82E16835118223
$63.99

Memory - System
Qty. Product Description Unit Price Savings Total Price 1 CORSAIR XMS 2GB (2 x 1GB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) Unbuffered Dual Channel Kit System Memory Model Twinx2048-3200c2pt - Retail
Model #: Twinx2048-3200c2pt
Item #: N82E16820145575
$233.00

Processors
Qty. Product Description Unit Price Savings Total Price 1 AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ Manchester 1GHz FSB Socket 939 Dual Core Processor Model ADA3800BVBOX - Retail
Model #: ADA3800BVBOX
Item #: N82E16819103562
$300.00

Now, all of this is over my budget, but mainly what I want. Is this good? Will this really give me the performance boost I am looking for in a new computer? Can any corners be cut to make it cheaper or better while reducing or maintaining cost? Are any of the parts listed here something I should do everything in my power to avoid? Also, I want to be able to overclock for a little extra power, am I backing myself into a corner with these parts? Should I get faster/better SATA hard drives?

I have done a LOT of reading lately to try and get caught up on what is new, good and garbage. Other questions I am pondering are waiting around for prices to drop on some of this newer hardware, or if something newer/better/cheaper is around the corner.

I don't want flames, I want compelling information. My allegiances lies with Maxtor, A-Bit, ATI, nForce chipsets, AMD CPU's and Thermaltake cases, but with good information, I can better myself if there are better products out there.

For those that have taken the time to read this, thank you and I look forward to this thread and what it brings to the table, and, in hopes, will aid others in my situation or similar.

[kenrippy]

personally i think you're wasting your money on the video card, psu, and the memory you have listed isn't pc4000.

stay away from abit mobo's because they're out of business or will be shortly. go with an asus, epox, or dfi. (in that order if it was up to me)
look into the asus a8n-sli premium if you think you might want a second video card to run sli.

cpu cooler is personal choice and this chart isn't up to date, but it'll give you something to compare them by. i like the thermalright SI-120
http://www.behardware.com/articles/5...u-coolers.html

this would be the ram i would pick for that system http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820227219

i think it's a known fact that 512mb is not helpful in a video card as long as you have enough system memory and a good cpu. just get a 7800gt or something along that line and save yourself $300

for psu, i'd look at the antec or enermax brands, stay away from the neo-power antec though, i've read about incompatibility issues
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817103931
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817103932

hard drives are also a personal choice, i like your selection....but you could give up some storage and get a faster setup with 2x74gb raptors and run raid 0. then get another storage drive on the cheap when you decide you need it.

just my .02

[ThorneDarcloud]

kenrippy, thanks for the reply.

I have always been an ATI fanboy, the graphics always seem more crisp and sharp, where nVidia graphics look more colorful and have that pastel-like fog and glow to them, but still nice. I don't know if I am ready to make a switch like that, but maybe a little compare contrast between two cards, one ATI and one nVidia would be a good conversation to keep this thread going. (YAY, run-on. :V)

The Antec True-Powers look nice, but what is the difference between the two you used as examples? I read the descriptions; they seem the same except for the "Server Type" and the price-Point.

The OCZ ram looks solid; anyone else used this RAM before? I have never heard of this company myself.

Last note to bump and keep this thread alive, I still need to find a nice case! I have been looking around and have been somewhat unimpressed with current cases on the market. I like the Full-ATX tower for good airflow and space, but I don't like the Full-ATX tower WEIGHT. My current box weighs almost 40lbs, pretty much keep my from ever wanting to go to a LAN-party, so, I want something light, functional and with enough space my parts won't melt after three days. >_<

Please keep this thread alive! I have always trusted the peoples on Sharky to guide me in the right direction and it has always worked out in the end. Thanks again to those that read this and major thanks to anyone that replies!

EDIT: I also wanted to add that I am not looking for a MoBo that can do SLI or CrossFire. I really don't need 2 video cards, nor can I afford it.

[nails]

get the asus a8ne if youre not gonna go sli. for video card, get the x1900xt, the cheapest one you can find, theyre all the same, and i doubt the retail packages are interesting, so no problem with going oem. for the psu, get a fortron 500w psu for about 90 on newegg, it has sleeved cables, and is one of the most respected psu brands. for ram, get the gskill 2 gb kit on newegg for 194, or that ocz one, theyll both be fine... as for the case, look at the nzxt lexa, good cooling and relatively quiet.

[OS-Wiz]

The case you picked isn't a full tower case. In general the Cooler Master cases run cooler and quieter than anything on the market. As Ken said, dump the ABIT stuff, look into ASUS (A8N-E ???). Antec 550W True Power II PSU. ThermalRight XP90-C HS, Enermax 90mm adjustable speed fan, and some Artic Silver 5 or Ceramique.

[mrsinster]

I highly stan behind what ken rippy an oz wiz have stated.

1.
You want the 4000 x2 64 bit SanDeigo core socket 939 due to the larger cache size.
$30 more
Yes you will notice a considerable diffrence.

2.
Look at Antec power supply`s and cases also cooler master but cases only.

3.
I also asus a8n sli deluxe ($150 newegg.com)yes it costs more but you get all jumper and cables you need with it a saving of at least $50
http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NzAz

4.
Ram
Ocz is good
I look at like this
1.corsair
2.muskin
3.ocz

[kenrippy]

the main difference between those 2 antec power supplies i listed is, one has a single 120mm fan (quieter) and the other has 2 80mm fans.

why not try the antec super lanboy, i have it and it's a sweet case. very VERY light! it also has rubber mounts for the hdd's and good front to back air flow w/ 2x120mm fans which make for a silent cooling system. (i'm all about a quiet pc)

for mobo, i guess the a8n-e would be good http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131530 but i chose the a8n-sli premium mainly because of the passive cooling on the southbridge. i hate chipset fans, they always die at some point. i have no intentions of running SLI either.

[hongsc]

Here are some suggestions that will save some cash and give great performance and looks.

Case: Lian Li PC65/PC60 PLUS great cooling
MB: Asus or if you feel a little bit adventurous DFI
CPU: Opteron 165 stock HS for now
Mem: 2gb of Value ram
VC: ATI X1900XT
HDD: Seagate
PSU: Enermax
Optical drive: DVD burner Benq/NEC if you need one

[kenrippy]

one thing to look at, the gskill value ram (1gb modules) don't have a lifetime warranty. i just bought one and was dissapointed to see that, should have noticed that first.

[OC/ingmaddog]

Yeah like hongsc said, drop the XTX and get the XT. Less $ and you can OC pass XTX speeds.

For a PSU try an OCZ 520W Powerstream.

For RAM check out the G.Skill HZ's. 2x1GB modules with black heatspreaders. $200 bucks.

[ThorneDarcloud]

Thanks again for the replies; you folks have been very helpful. I still have a few questions though.

A number of people have been singing to the praises of RAID and I am considering getting two, faster (higher RPM and cache size), lower capacity SATA drives to run in raid as my Windows/Games/applications drives and have cheap, high capacity PATA drives for storage of Music/Documents/Pictures. Back in '03, I read a hard drive setup and partitioning guide written by a Sharky veteran and I have my drives partitioned like some people use folders, for performance and security. The first drive is set up with three partitions; a 7.5gb partition for Windows by itself, then another 7.5gb for my applications. The other partition is left for my music, around 35gb and the rest of the drive is for OS testing. (Unpartitioned space) The second drive is set up with a 50gb partition for my games, 50gb for video files and 15gb for pictures and documents. I know this seems ridiculous, but it has worked well for me for the past 3 years. The reasoning behind this setup is to keep Windows by itself, because we all know how Windows just loves to eat itself alive sometimes, this way it makes it easy to just reformat that partition and reinstall everything instead of a major backup project every 4-6 months. Another reason for this setup given by the author of the article was that by running games from another drive, it allows the OS to pull data it needs solely from the other drive as the game runs, instead of having to read over system files and other application data to spin to the file the game needs to load. It wasn't a considerable increase in performance, but it made sense and things did run a little more smoothly. Since I prefer to just reformat every season or so, I worry about running a raid setup. Having everything installed to s single drive letter makes me nervous after months of having things set up the way I have them.

So, enough bantering, here are my questions behind that long story: How does RAID work? What do I need to read and consider to learn how to set it up? What are the advantage/disadvantages? Considering what I said above, am I going to be able to set things up similarly, or shouldn't I? What kind of hard drives should I buy for a RAID setup? Will the RAID array have conflict with PATA drives if they are present in the system?

If anyone can answer those questions for me, that would be grand... and I have more as well.

mrsinster

1.
You want the 4000 x2 64 bit SanDeigo core socket 939 due to the larger cache size. $30 more Yes you will notice a considerable difference.

I couldn't find an x2 version of that CPU, just the x64 edition for ~$500. What I am looking for in a CPU is overall value and longevity; Translation: Overclocking potential. I wanted an x2 because in my head, it seems like it would last longer and perform better with things like Vista on the horizon. Am I wrong?

kenrippy

but i chose the a8n-sli premium mainly because of the passive cooling on the southbridge. i hate chipset fans, they always die at some point. i have no intentions of running SLI either.

I agree with that whole statement, also, that MoBo (a8n-sli Premium) looks nice, I think I will go with that. The accessories and overall look of the whole thing is very cool, what are the overclocking features like? I really liked the A-Bit tools in the BIOS, made overclocking simple, no jumpers or any of those types of annoyances required, just, set parameters, reboot, system crashes, try again.

OS-Wiz

In general the Cooler Master cases run cooler and quieter than anything on the market.

I'll take your word on it. What I want in a case is lightweight, cool, quiet and, preferably, a side window. I'm not all about "pimping my rig" I just like to be able to see the components that I spent my hard earned money on and hard work assembling. Is there anything out there that you guys can recommend that will have everything I would like, or should I make a sacrifice and get a solid case? (since I don't have the tools or the skill to mod the cases myself, a modkit wouldn't help me much...)

OC/ingmaddog

For a PSU try an OCZ 520W Powerstream.

520w... wow, I remember when 350w was insane. Ok, so PSUs haven't had much love in this discussion. This system is probably going to be running 4 hard drives (2 SATA RAID, 2 PATA [storage drives]), a DVD-ROM drive, DVD-Burner, high-ish end video card (possibly two, later down the road), a high-ish level CPU (that is definitely GOING to be overclocked) the fans, Mobo, etc. So, I am going to want something that is going to run stable and cool. The antec with the 120m fan looks great; I think I will be going with that. Anyone disagree for cheaper/better/quieter?

OC/ingmaddog

Yeah like hongsc said, drop the XTX and get the XT. Less $ and you can OC pass XTX speeds.

I'm surprised that no-one has tried to convert me over to nVidia or start claiming the whole arguments of "You don't need 512mb if you have a good CPU/RAM combo!!!111". The x1900XT looks nice, but are there any 256mb versions, or should I just cave in and get a 512mb so I don't have to later? And if I do get a 512 x1900XT, what brand should I get? I don't want to get a ~$500 video card and have it belch the magic blue smoke after 2 weeks.

Well, that's it, for today at least. I don't have internet access ay my home (for now), so that is why I keep bundling a bunch of questions together like this in rediculously long posts. I look forward to see what comes next and thanks a LOT, I'm learning so much from this and I really do appreciate it greatly.

Have a good one guys, until next time.

[kenrippy]

i think what mrsinister is referring to is the single core 4000+. back when i was shopping for a new system, most people were saying that for a GAMING only rig, a single core cpu was the way to go. now that's not exactly the story. with games starting to be made with dual cores in mind, you'll be glad you went with an x2. if you get the 4400 x2 you'll have twice the L2 cache, i don't know if it's worth it though. i got the 4400+ because i like to render video so i thought it might be the way to go for me.

i'm sure the antec TP II 550w will do you fine (the single 120mm fan model)

one thing you didn't mention, an aftermarket cooler. like os-wiz said, the xp-90c is a great cooler. i went with a larger, quieter version though (si-120 with recommended fan) http://www.frozencpu.com/cpu-tri-23.html it may not perform quite as well as the xp-90c but it keeps it cool and quiet.

i don't game much at all, so i can't help you with a vid card choice...

you're on the right track with raid 0 for windows. i tend to format about once a year too. just be sure to leave the pata drives out until after you have your OS installed. it ensures that your windows drive will be labeled "C" which makes things easier. and use the NVRAID raid controller, it's faster than the silicon image one. i am very impressed with the 2x74gb raptor setup i have. very snappy! just put your games on it and go. it'll give you about 140gb total. don't get the 36gb flavor, it's slower. then use your other PATA drives for storage. i linked a couple tests i ran with mine below..

i have mine setup like this:
a8n-sli premium
4400+ @ 2.5ghz
si-120 w/ panaflo L1a
2x1gb crucial ballistix pc4000 (250, 3-3-3-8 1T)
2x74gb raptors raid 0
2x200gb pata seagate drives
antec TP II 550w
6600gt
NEC 3500A
lite-on dvd/cdrw combo drive
antec super lanboy

here's a couple screenies to show the difference between a single 74gb raptor and 2 in raid 0
single 74gb raptor
2x raptors in raid 0

[ThorneDarcloud]

Wow, thanks for the swift reply ken.

I can't really see the difference with those screencaps, I'm just not saavy to the app or the numbers myself. As far as RAID goes, do you have any links to info and tutorials on how to get that up and running? I have absolutely no clue on how to run and set up RAID. Also, I figure I won't be able to partitoon the way I am used to, everything from Windows, Games and applications will all be on the same drive letter, so if I get a virus or if windows decides to crap out, I have to redo everything... which is what I do anyways, (reinstalling everything on respective drives/partitions respectivly) so nevermind, this might be easier.

Aftermarket coolers are what I am going for. I got an OEM CPU on my last build with a Thermalright SLK-90 (finally remembered the name). I like the to options you suggested and I think the lafrger one with the 120mm fan would be best for me.

I still need a nice case though... any thoughts guys?

I'm going for an all-around build. Something that will rock games and be able to keep up with new software as it comes out. (Namely Vista and other 64-bit apps/games/OS's)

Speaking of software, here is a new twist to this thread. I currently use Norton products for Firewal/Anti-Malware. From what I have been hearing, I really shouldn't. I'm more concious than the typical AOL moron, so I am looking for security products that don't eat system resources like mad. I have been hearing great things about ZoneAlarm Security Suite for Firewall/Malware protection. As far as SpyWare is concerned, I have that covered. 99% of the time, I don't get Spyware because I know what not to do, but for regular scans I use Ad-Aware, Spybot, Spyware Blaster and Microsoft Anti-Spyware (Soon to be Microsoft Defender). So, anyone have any opinions on this?

[kenrippy]

you're welcome,

i think this is the page that helped me get my raid going
http://www.aoaforums.com/frontpage/content/view/292/

for AV/firewall i like the newest version of symantec client security, and i use ad-aware & spysweeper. i really like spysweeper.

[ThorneDarcloud]

Okay, below is my new list of parts based on everything we have discussed. The total, before shipping, is about $500 over my budget. What I am asking now is if there is any way to lower costs without taking a hit in performance/features/power/longevity? Recomendations please!

Thermaltake SHARK VA7000BWA Black Aluminum ATX Full Tower Computer Case - Retail
Model #: VA7000BWA
$169.00

ASUS A8N-SLI Premium Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 SLI ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
Model #: A8N-SLI Premium

SAPPHIRE 100149 Radeon X1900XT 512MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card - OEM
Model #: 100149
$519.00

Antec TRUEPOWERII TPII-550 ATX12V 550W Power Supply - Retail
Model #: TPII-550
$89.99 1

AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200+ Manchester 1GHz FSB Socket 939 Dual Core Processor Model ADA4200BVBOX - Retail
Model #: ADA4200BVBOX
$360.00

CORSAIR XMS 2GB (2 x 1GB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 500 (PC 4000) Unbuffered Dual Channel Kit System Memory Model TWINX2048-4000PT - Retail
Model #: TWINX2048-4000PT
$229.00

2 Western Digital Raptor WD740GD 74GB 10,000 RPM Serial ATA150 Hard Drive - OEM
Model #: WD740GD
$155.00 x2 = $310.00

2 Maxtor DiamondMax 10 6L200R0 200GB 7200 RPM IDE Ultra ATA133 Hard Drive - OEM
Model #: 6L200R0
$89.00 x2 = $178.00

Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound - OEM
Model #: ARCTIC SILVER 5
$5.99
THERMALRIGHT XP-90C CPU Copper Heatsink - Retail
Model #: XP-90C
$58.99

Antec 75002 92mm 2 Ball Case Cooling Fan - Retail
Model #: 75002
$8.99