mass NAS storage options

[raider1v1]

Hey guys,

so heres my plan. rip all my movies, copy all my music, pics, everything onto one massive storage point. i needed that to be linked to a computer so that streaming/ftp can happen. i am planning to use orb for that plus a secure ftp client. needs to be redundant etc. i was thinking of RAID 5 for that. id like for it to be expandable in the easiest possible way.

option 1 - buy the kinda idiot proof Data Robotics Drobo Storage Robot. its just self expanding, healing, all that good stuff. but i dont know if its fast enough for watching movies off of. id start with two or three 500gb seagates for this one

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822240001

option 2 - get a box such as the NORCO DS-500 5 Bay eSATA RAID Hard Drive Storage Array or the much larger NORCO DS-1220 3U 12-bay Hot-swap Rackmount eSATA RAID Hard Drive Storage Subsystem. I know that this is more setup, and time etc. but its fully configurable my way. id run a raid 5 (suggestions are welcome). my question on this is, do i need to load all the drives i want at once and the array is set or can i start with 3 and then expand out as my needs increase?

heres the link to those 2 above boxes.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16816133003
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16816133001

[kent1146]

How about using an old computer as a file / print / FTP server? If you have it lying around, it would be a lot cheaper than buying a dedicated unit and give you a lot more flexibility in terms of utility, expandability of storage, and upgradeability. You could cram several TB of storage into that thing, for example. You can make it a print server, and run any kind of app that you want on it. And somewhere down the line, if you decide that it's time to upgrade your network to gigabit ethernet, you can just pop in a new network card.

[raider1v1]

true, but i dont have the spare parts for that. i suppose that i could build a new rig and then use the parts from my current one but thats just another area that i dont need to go into

when you said expandability and upgradability, how would i upgrade/expand an array without first dismounting and backing up to a separate area? thats my whole thing is that i dont know how to manage a raid setup. i can put them together and get them running well enough but i havent actually ever changed them around. my main goal would be expandability start with something small-ish like 3-500gb drives and then go from there.

is that possible with the separate raid boxes/NAS drives? or is that just reserved for a whole file server.

[kent1146]

Setting up a RAID array for redundancy does not require a "dedicated file server." This is a great way to protect your valuable data against loss from a hard drive failure. You can do it on any device that supports RAID, like some of the NAS boxes you linked from NewEgg, all the way to full-blown dedicated file servers. Depending on your hardware, you can even do it off of your motherboard. I started storing my critical data (ie, porn) on a RAID1 array running off of 2x500GB drives in my mid-tower case, connected to my SATA motherboard. You definitely don't need complex hardware to start using RAID.

It's also relatively easy to manage and maintain RAID... the only three things you'll really need to deal with are how to configure a group of hard disks into a RAID array, how to get your OS to recognize that RAID array (may require drivers to be installed), and how to rebuild your array if one of your drives fail. Configuring a RAID array is usually as simple as going into some utility built into the disk controller and selecting the drives you want to create into an array. That array then appears as just another drive letter in Windows... all of the backup and redundancy is taken care of for you. In the event of a drive failure, you remove the faulty drive, pop in a new fresh drive, go back into the RAID configuration utility, and select Rebuild RAID array. The actual steps and screens to do all of this will vary according to the RAID hardware you buy.

In terms for expanding capacity by just adding another drive... this is a tricky situation, and depends on the RAID hardware you select. Some RAID controllers let you do this, some do not. Some will "automatically" expand the partition to use the new space, some will not (ie, you just increased your RAID array size from 500GB to 1000GB, but your partition is still only 500GB... you'll need to stretch your current partition to fill the entire 1000GB, or create a new partition in that "empty" 500GB space). Again, the way that this is handled all depends on the specific RAID controller you use. I would narrow your choices down to a few NAS devices based on features and price, and then do your research to figure out which would work best for you.

[raider1v1]

so basically i havnet been able to find a NAS setup or a raid controller that does those features for less than the $500 price of the drobo.

now the question is up to the throughput of the device. is that going to be based on the speed of the hdds and the speed of the computer its running though. the main purpose will be on a htpc type setup with storage/streaming for offsite access through orb.

wil it be able to keep up? or how much bandwidth do i need for quaility streaming video?

http://www.drobospace.com/forum/thre...52B29069C#2011

[kent1146]

Well, first, please be aware that none of the devices you linked are true NAS devices... none of them have network capabilities. They all require a connection to a computer (vis USB for Drobo, via eSATA for the other 2). Once connected to a computer, they can be shared to other computers on your network. But the fact that they connect directly to a PC makes them direct-attached storage (DAS) devices.

As for transfer speeds, a hard drive can go up to 40MBps-60MBps... with the two eSATA devices, you will be limited by the hard drive speeds. With the Drobo, you will be limited by USB 2.0 speeds (typically around 20MBps-25MBps). If you were to change your mind and go with a true NAS box, you'd be limited by the network speed on WiFi (6MBps) or ethernet (12MBps). If you were to bump up to gigabit ethernet, you'd be limited to the speed of the hard disks.

Typically, when dealing with NAS / external DAS storage in a home environment, you're worried more about convenience than pure speed. If you're looking to just archive some files and stream media off of the storage. In that usage case, both USB2.0 and ethernet speeds will suffice. But if you're looking to run apps, databases, or other software where drive I/O performance matters, you'll need to go with an eSATA solution.

[raider1v1]

Originally Posted by kent1146

Well, first, please be aware that none of the devices you linked are true NAS devices... none of them have network capabilities. They all require a connection to a computer (vis USB for Drobo, via eSATA for the other 2). Once connected to a computer, they can be shared to other computers on your network. But the fact that they connect directly to a PC makes them direct-attached storage (DAS) devices.

As for transfer speeds, a hard drive can go up to 40MBps-60MBps... with the two eSATA devices, you will be limited by the hard drive speeds. With the Drobo, you will be limited by USB 2.0 speeds (typically around 20MBps-25MBps). If you were to change your mind and go with a true NAS box, you'd be limited by the network speed on WiFi (6MBps) or ethernet (12MBps). If you were to bump up to gigabit ethernet, you'd be limited to the speed of the hard disks.

Typically, when dealing with NAS / external DAS storage in a home environment, you're worried more about convenience than pure speed. If you're looking to just archive some files and stream media off of the storage. In that usage case, both USB2.0 and ethernet speeds will suffice. But if you're looking to run apps, databases, or other software where drive I/O performance matters, you'll need to go with an eSATA solution.

excellent information so far. i wasnt really making that much distinction between the DAS and NAS devices. i was just thinking in terms of massive external storage

is there going to be a big impact on performance to have it attached to a computer instead of an actual NAS device? i will be streaming video but im not sure of the required rate for high def movies.

[proxops-pete]

I've seen SFF Pentium 3 PCs for $60... just hook up huge HDD to it and call it a file server!

[kent1146]

Most compressed video maxes out at 4Mbps (4 megaBITS per sec... the numbers I mentioned for throughput earlier use megaBYTES). Uncompressed 1080i is around 45Mbps (again, 45 megaBITS... this is roughly 6 megaBYTES per second). Whether or not this poses a problem will depend on how the media is going to be streamed and used.

If you are simply playing back this media on a computer, you will not have a problem using USB2.0 / eSATA DAS devices, or ethernet / gigabit NAS devices. A WiFi-based NAS device would be fine for compressed video, but wouldn't be able to keep up with uncompressed 1080i video streaming. If you're streaming 1080i over a NAS, you'll need at least an ethernet connection.

If you're streaming to a media device connected to a TV, that media device will most likely be connected to your network via WiFi. If you go with a DAS device and set up a network share from your computer, then you should connect that to your network through at least an ethernet port (WiFi-to-WiFi uses a shared bandwidth of 54Mbps, not 54Mbps per connection). If you go with a NAS, be sure it's connected through at least an ethernet port.

[raider1v1]

Originally Posted by kent1146

Most compressed video maxes out at 4Mbps (4 megaBITS per sec... the numbers I mentioned for throughput earlier use megaBYTES). Uncompressed 1080i is around 45Mbps (again, 45 megaBITS... this is roughly 6 megaBYTES per second). Whether or not this poses a problem will depend on how the media is going to be streamed and used.

If you are simply playing back this media on a computer, you will not have a problem using USB2.0 / eSATA DAS devices, or ethernet / gigabit NAS devices. A WiFi-based NAS device would be fine for compressed video, but wouldn't be able to keep up with uncompressed 1080i video streaming. If you're streaming 1080i over a NAS, you'll need at least an ethernet connection.

If you're streaming to a media device connected to a TV, that media device will most likely be connected to your network via WiFi. If you go with a DAS device and set up a network share from your computer, then you should connect that to your network through at least an ethernet port (WiFi-to-WiFi uses a shared bandwidth of 54Mbps, not 54Mbps per connection). If you go with a NAS, be sure it's connected through at least an ethernet port.

cool. this is the info that i needed. i have kinda ruled out the pre-boxed NAS system due to the fact they aren't upgradeable as easily as the drobo and are more expensive.

i did find a solution thats in the NAS alley though. its unRAID seen here

http://www.lime-technology.com/

but all in all from what you are telling me, the drobo has the throughput to feed it fast enough for videos. for the wireless router/gigE/usb router id probably get something like this

http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satel...=4351276789B06

thoughts? so the basic setup would be the HTPC w/drobo hooked to usb OR drobo in closet w/router then wireless to htpc.

[Colossus]

I picked up the following NAS to compliment my already 7TB network at home...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822134001


Unfortunately I didnt have time to play with it before I had left to the UK. I would be able to molest my new hardware when i return. But it is a NAS for under $500; but with no drives.

I wanted to retire some drives, and I didnt want to build a new server, so I had decided to goto a NAS solution.

[Colossus]

You can pickup some decent 1TB NAS for a few dollars more, such as the...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822154171

[raider1v1]

Originally Posted by Colossus

I picked up the following NAS to compliment my already 7TB network at home...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822134001


Unfortunately I didnt have time to play with it before I had left to the UK. I would be able to molest my new hardware when i return. But it is a NAS for under $500; but with no drives.

I wanted to retire some drives, and I didnt want to build a new server, so I had decided to goto a NAS solution.

hey man!

hm yah i looked at that but its not that expandable is it?

[raider1v1]

alright. i spent another day of work combing the internet and found this.

Infrant Technologies ReadyNAS NV+

(EXCELLENT review)
http://www.barrys-rigs-n-reviews.com...us/nvplus1.htm

specs
http://www.excaliberpc.com/Infrant_T...id-570990.html

company page
http://www.infrant.com/products/prod...dyNAS%20NVPlus

so its expandable, gigabit ethernet, usb, lots of software and features built in. is there any downfall? seems that the 3tb limit (750gb each drive) is it. can they expand that or is that set?

[Colossus]

Yeah the review seems decent, but you should crawl around their support forum...

http://www.infrant.com/forum/

Seems that the fanless psu has issues and they had to increase the rpm from 1600rpm to 2100rpm. Which increased the quietness aspect of the unit.

They also asked people to review the exhaust fan to an intake fan raising the hd temps from 3 - 5 degrees and defeating the purpose of the air filter on the front.