Interesting numbers on Apple

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  1. #1
    Mako Shark
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    Interesting numbers on Apple

    http://www.tomshardware.com/news/iOS...les,14733.html

    125,000,000 or so total Mac sales in 28 years? I knew it was low but I had no idea it was that low. One good point is people do tend to change phones frequently and computers very infrequently.

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    LOLWUT ImaNihilist's Avatar
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    Macs also stay in standard operation much longer than PCs I've found. There are still a lot of operational Power Books and Power Macs out there. Power Mac G5s from '05/'06 still go for $500.

    You standard consumer grade Dell/Acer crapbook will literally start to fall apart at the hinges after two years.

  3. #3
    Mako Shark
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaNihilist View Post
    Macs also stay in standard operation much longer than PCs I've found. There are still a lot of operational Power Books and Power Macs out there. Power Mac G5s from '05/'06 still go for $500.

    You standard consumer grade Dell/Acer crapbook will literally start to fall apart at the hinges after two years.
    Since replacement cost is so much lower for a PC and the hardware evolves so much faster people are more likely to just replace a PC instead of keeping the one they have working properly. I still have PII's and PIII's that work fine. I replaced them because they are slow not because they don't work. How much faster are current MAC's compared to 2005? A 2005 PC got you a single core A64 or a P4 with 8xx series ATI graphics or 7xxx Nvidia graphics. The reason there is no resale value is because current PC's are infinitely faster. A system with the slowest most inexpensive parts still blow away a 2005 spec computer.

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    I don't roll on Shabbos! Timman_24's Avatar
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    My professor still uses a G5 as his workstation. He programs, runs simulations, etc and it is still powerful enough to do those basic things. When he sends me code, my computer runs it ~20x faster though.
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    Mako Shark
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    The Power Mac G5 was introduced with three models, sharing the same physical case, but differing in features and performance. The 1.6 GHz model shipped with 256 megabytes (MB) of RAM, an 80 GB hard drive, and could hold a maximum of 4 GB of RAM, and an nVidia GeForce 5200 graphics card with 64 MB VRAM with one ADC output and one DVI output. The 1.8 and dual-processor and 2.0 GHz models shipped with 512 MB of RAM, and could employ a maximum of 8 gigabytes (GB) of RAM. The dual-processor model came with an ATI Radeon 9600 graphics card with a Radeon 9800 as an option. The physical case of the Power Mac G5 was very different and unusual compared to any other computer at that time. Many potential buyers, though, were surprised to find that the attractive case, while somewhat larger than the G4 tower it replaced, had room inside for only one optical, and two hard drives.

    Ummm 500 for this?

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    I don't roll on Shabbos! Timman_24's Avatar
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    No way you can get top of the line g5 for about 200. The first year Mac pros go for 500+ though because they still compatible with newer oses.
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    LOLWUT ImaNihilist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drdoom View Post
    The Power Mac G5 was introduced with three models, sharing the same physical case, but differing in features and performance. The 1.6 GHz model shipped with 256 megabytes (MB) of RAM, an 80 GB hard drive, and could hold a maximum of 4 GB of RAM, and an nVidia GeForce 5200 graphics card with 64 MB VRAM with one ADC output and one DVI output. The 1.8 and dual-processor and 2.0 GHz models shipped with 512 MB of RAM, and could employ a maximum of 8 gigabytes (GB) of RAM. The dual-processor model came with an ATI Radeon 9600 graphics card with a Radeon 9800 as an option. The physical case of the Power Mac G5 was very different and unusual compared to any other computer at that time. Many potential buyers, though, were surprised to find that the attractive case, while somewhat larger than the G4 tower it replaced, had room inside for only one optical, and two hard drives.

    Ummm 500 for this?
    At least $500.

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    Hammerhead Shark
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaNihilist View Post
    At least $500.
    There are like a bazillion Power Mac G5s on ebay for around $200. Can't find cheap Intel based Mac Pros, though (those are $500+).
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    LOLWUT ImaNihilist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick_B View Post
    There are like a bazillion Power Mac G5s on ebay for around $200. Can't find cheap Intel based Mac Pros, though (those are $500+).
    Maybe the early ones. If it's quad core and in good condition, $500 is pretty reasonable.

    My point was that the Mac desktop has the exact OPPOSITE revenue model as the iPod/iOS devices. Apple's goal is to get people to buy a new iPod/iPhone/iPad every year. So when you look at the insane sales numbers you have to understand that a good portion of those sales are not "new customers".

    The Mac is exactly the opposite. The units stay in circulation for a very, very long time compared to your average consumer-grade PC desktop or notebook. It's one of the many reasons the platform hasn't been terribly successful ever, and growth is a huge problem. Showing revenue growth is really difficult because the market for used Macs is huge. The market for used iPods is basically nothing.

    Dell was able to do so well for so long because most of what they sold in volume was garbage that would need to be replaced in 24 months. They were so cheap there was basically no used market. They were selling new desktops for like $299 at some point.

    They are trying to fix this with the MacBook Air, to some extent, but it's still way to expensive at $999. If they can get that down to $599, which may be impossible, then I could see the Mac finally becoming a high revenue product.
    Last edited by ImaNihilist; 02-24-2012 at 04:49 PM.

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    I don't roll on Shabbos! Timman_24's Avatar
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    There are a few things Apple can do to get the Mac to consumer level. They need a small entry level laptop like the Mac Mini. Make a 13" Mac with an i2300, 2-4GB ram, 500GB HDD, decent quality TN panel, and a plastic case. They could easily get that out the door for 599 and retain a healthy profit. The plastic case and TN panel will not take long term abuse, so they could be good to go.
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    Snarky Quorums MrDigital's Avatar
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    Apple doesn't care about lower price points. They are about obscene profit margins. That's why they are sitting on $100B cash while other PC manufacturers struggle to survive.

    The market is coming to Apple's price points, not the other way around. Mac sales continue to increase year-on-year and they are amongst the very few PC manufacturers posting sales gains.
    There is the theory of the moebius. A twist in the fabric of space where time becomes a loop.

  12. #12
    I don't roll on Shabbos! Timman_24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrDigital View Post
    Apple doesn't care about lower price points. They are about obscene profit margins. That's why they are sitting on $100B cash while other PC manufacturers struggle to survive.

    The market is coming to Apple's price points, not the other way around. Mac sales continue to increase year-on-year and they are amongst the very few PC manufacturers posting sales gains.
    Yes, but it is time to cash in on the name they have been building for themselves over the last 15 years. Think of it this way, Dell, HP, and others fight each other for the low end price point (400-700.) If Apple struts in with a decent quality laptop with some of the high end features nipped off like the aluminum chassis, high end display, etc, then they could still make the same profit at a lower price point of 599-699. That leaves no room at all for the other guys. I mean, who would buy a dell when you can get an apple for around the same price?

    They would fly off the shelves. I think apple may be quite different in the coming years with Steve gone, RIP. I think he really pushed for the actual high end position and quality of Apple, but the new management may only push for the high end branding of Apple, which opens up new doors and endless money if done correctly.
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  13. #13
    Mako Shark
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    [QUOTE=ImaNihilist;2760931]Maybe the early ones. If it's quad core and in good condition, $500 is pretty reasonable.

    My point was that the Mac desktop has the exact OPPOSITE revenue model as the iPod/iOS devices. Apple's goal is to get people to buy a new iPod/iPhone/iPad every year. So when you look at the insane sales numbers you have to understand that a good portion of those sales are not "new customers".

    The Mac is exactly the opposite. The units stay in circulation for a very, very long time compared to your average consumer-grade PC desktop or notebook. It's one of the many reasons the platform hasn't been terribly successful ever, and growth is a huge problem. Showing revenue growth is really difficult because the market for used Macs is huge. The market for used iPods is basically nothing.

    Dell was able to do so well for so long because most of what they sold in volume was garbage that would need to be replaced in 24 months. They were so cheap there was basically no used market. They were selling new desktops for like $299 at some point.

    Apple's desktop model is a complete failure by corporate standards. 125,000,000 units in 28 years? If tomorrow the news came out that projected 2012 PC sales were 125,000,000 units there would be endless article about the demise of the industry. The "quality" arguement doesn't hold water. Dell, HP, etc all produced inexpensive computer not because they decided too but because that's what the market wanted. There were plenty of PC's that had the same build quality as a MAC and a similar price tag. They didn't sell huge numbers either. I am sure that's why most people here build their own. They wanted good build quality but didn't want to pay outrageous prices. The other point is a 2 year old PC is hopelessly obsolete that's why there is no resale value. The build quality has little to do with it. A pristine Pentium 4 is still worth close to nothing.

  14. #14
    LOLWUT ImaNihilist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drdoom View Post
    Apple's desktop model is a complete failure by corporate standards. 125,000,000 units in 28 years? If tomorrow the news came out that projected 2012 PC sales were 125,000,000 units there would be endless article about the demise of the industry. The "quality" arguement doesn't hold water. Dell, HP, etc all produced inexpensive computer not because they decided too but because that's what the market wanted. There were plenty of PC's that had the same build quality as a MAC and a similar price tag. They didn't sell huge numbers either. I am sure that's why most people here build their own. They wanted good build quality but didn't want to pay outrageous prices. The other point is a 2 year old PC is hopelessly obsolete that's why there is no resale value. The build quality has little to do with it. A pristine Pentium 4 is still worth close to nothing.
    That's because with PC sales it's a revenue game. With Mac sales it's a profits game.

    Most companies outside of oil have to play the revenue game because the profits game is too competitive, and revenue growth is what needs to happen to put upward pressure on the stock price. Apple was in trouble for years because all they could do was play the per unit profits game, but their fixed costs were so high they generated losses. Then the iPod comes around and plays the revenue game and suddenly the profits from the Mac seem good.

    Look at Apple's last fiscal quarter.
    Last edited by ImaNihilist; 02-25-2012 at 06:45 PM.

  15. #15
    Mako Shark
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaNihilist View Post
    That's because with PC sales it's a revenue game. With Mac sales it's a profits game.

    Most companies outside of oil have to play the revenue game because the profits game is too competitive, and revenue growth is what needs to happen to put upward pressure on the stock price. Apple was in trouble for years because all they could do was play the per unit profits game, but their fixed costs were so high they generated losses. Then the iPod comes around and plays the revenue game and suddenly the profits from the Mac seem good.

    Look at Apple's last fiscal quarter.
    That's exactly my point. Apple only started making money when they dumped their desktop computer sales model. Trying to convince people to pay twice as much for a computer as they had too for some perceived privilege of owning a MAC didn't work. What sells computers is faster CPU's, bigger hard drives, more memory and better graphics. They stopped being a desktop computer company and now they are a phone/gadget company.for the most part. And they did it by using the same model as PC's; constantly coming out with newer and faster products so people replace something that may still work fine, I heard a rumor that the next Power MAC will be the last. If Apple is smart they they will port their OS to run on any PC. That is essentially all the Power MAC is at this point, a PC that runs Apple's OS.

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