Java Worth Learning

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09-29-2002, 02:42 AM
BlueGuy

Java Worth Learning?

Hello

For the past few weeks I have been learning Java. It's been going pretty well and I can honestly say I am learning a lot. It's kind of fun too. Anyway,I plan on majoring in Computer Science next year. So what I'm wondering is, will this language be helpful at all when trying to learn C, C++, etc.? Are many languages similiar? Or are they all completely different when it comes down to proper syntax, variable names, etc. I just hope I have not been wasting my time on a language which I may not use at all in the future :)
09-29-2002, 08:38 AM
mefisto3

Java is very similar to C++ so u definitely havent wasted your time. even if it wasnt, it's a very popular language and is widely used so learning it is worth it.
09-30-2002, 01:01 PM
YahoKa

Go learn c(++) not java!
09-30-2002, 07:40 PM
bryce777

There are still quite a few C jobs out there, but not many C++ jobs worth mentioning, and both would be veeeerrrrry difficult to get into for someone with no experience.

I know people who have years of C/C++ experience and no job. Of course, I know unemployed people who specialize in almost everything, right now.

Still, it is very important to learn C, and to a smaller extent C++, to learn what is really going on in the machine. To learn object oriented programming though, which is and will continue to be more and more important for most types of programming, Java is much more intuitive and saner.

Anything you learn about will help you in some way, and the more you learn, the better.
09-30-2002, 11:16 PM
Dataleap

I learned OOP in school with JAVA and I think it's a very good language. Very similar to C++ for it's syntax. If you master Java, learning other will be a breeze ( exept for asm of course :p )
10-01-2002, 08:36 AM
e_dawg

Quote:

Originally posted by Dataleap
I learned OOP in school with JAVA and I think it's a very good language. Very similar to C++ for it's syntax. If you master Java, learning other will be a breeze ( exept for asm of course :p )

ASM is childs play if you really learned to program... It is nothing more than the most basic forms of the most basic structures and processes in structured programming, which is the most basic and logical system (and is still used in OOP, if you didn't notice).
10-01-2002, 03:31 PM
pudad

Learn all of it ;).
10-01-2002, 04:28 PM
Grizzly

Quote:

Originally posted by e_dawg
ASM is childs play if you really learned to program...

Truer words were never spoken! I'm actually taking an x86 ASM class right now, and it blows my mind how simple it can be. My false impression was that ASM is to programming languages, as Navaho is to spoken languages. Only a few people on this planet *really* know it well, and it's quite possibly the most difficult thing on earth to decipher. But as you pointed out e_dawg, that couldn't be farther from the truth.

When you say, "really" learned to program, I know exactly what you mean. It blows my mind how many people can program some fairly decent apps, but honestly have no freaking clue how the computer is doing it behind the scenes. Little things like understanding how different datatypes are stored in memory, how memory is allocated and addressed, and the simple concept of "pointers" are all pretty easy to grasp if you just take the time to conceptualize it.

It only makes sense that having a basic understanding of how computers actually work, might help you when you're trying to tell a computer to do something.
10-01-2002, 04:32 PM
Malone

In addition to all these helpful suggestions, many universities, name RIT and Pitt that I know of, have gotten rid of C/C++ entirely in their computer science departments. All courses are taught in Java (except that superfun Assembly course we all have to take!)
10-01-2002, 06:03 PM
BlueGuy

Why have they taken those classes out? I thought C++ is the most widely used language in the industry. Or have I been mislead?
10-01-2002, 08:51 PM
ksuohio

I was suprised to learn that my college dropped C++ and replaced it with Java. When I took my programming class about 5 years ago OOP and C++ was a big deal, but I guess that it's easier to learn in Java since it's an emulated language on the PC. I do know that IBM is a big supporter of Java on their AS/400 platform and other Unix and Linux systems.

As for learning one over another, you really have to decide if you are going to program. I spent time learning C++ but it was more of the concept that helped me in my job. I'm not a programmer but as a project manager I still have to work with the programmers.
10-01-2002, 11:10 PM
bryce777

Quote:

Originally posted by BlueGuy
Why have they taken those classes out? I thought C++ is the most widely used language in the industry. Or have I been mislead?

I do not think so.

I am not sure that was ever really the case, even.

It was 95 when people started to take c++ seriously, and it has never been a big business oriented language, losing ground to vb and then java even as it started to become more widespread.

Most shrinkbox apps are done in C++, but that is a small, small percentage of all the programming done today when you look at all the large custom systems done (and many, many still in COBOL for business stuffor FORTRAN for scientific stuff)and all the web-related programming and all the embedded programming and all the drivers etc. in your OS which are probably bigger than the OS itself, almost none of which is done in C++.

C++ is pretty much on the way out of the mainstream, now that an ADA-like language such as Java or C# can achieve much better performance than ADA could with the hardware and technology of the past (JIT compile etc.) and 5-15% performance for most applciations means little compared to development speed and stability.
10-02-2002, 07:13 PM
ksuohio

Quote:

Originally posted by bryce777

I do not think so.

I am not sure that was ever really the case, even.

It was 95 when people started to take c++ seriously, and it has never been a big business oriented language, losing ground to vb and then java even as it started to become more widespread.

Most shrinkbox apps are done in C++, but that is a small, small percentage of all the programming done today when you look at all the large custom systems done (and many, many still in COBOL for business stuffor FORTRAN for scientific stuff)and all the web-related programming and all the embedded programming and all the drivers etc. in your OS which are probably bigger than the OS itself, almost none of which is done in C++.

C++ is pretty much on the way out of the mainstream, now that an ADA-like language such as Java or C# can achieve much better performance than ADA could with the hardware and technology of the past (JIT compile etc.) and 5-15% performance for most applciations means little compared to development speed and stability.

Going of of Bryce777, I thought coming out of college that C++ was the be all and end all of programming, but when I started working with businnes applications, I was sadly mistaken. In what I've seen, you use C++ if you are writting a distributed application or something that requires complex logic. For example, our entire inventory and shipping system at work is written in RPGLE, with the exception of the socket driver programs. Those are written in C++ since sockets are easy to use and the EBCIDC to ASCII conversions are easy to do. All of the retail and order entry systems are in COBOL and so are AP and payroll, and the web apps are HTML and Java. Any of the smaller database apps are written in VB or purely queried from a SQL Server. This is software maintenance/developement for a medium sized company. I'm sure if you have a large staff and time to spend writing C++ apps it would be different, but that's the choice you have to make when finding the perfect job.
10-03-2002, 11:02 AM
Sol

I graduated in 2000 and coming out of college, everything around here was centered around Java. I learned c/c++ in college so I was kind of worried about it,but 2 years later, I am quite happy with Java. Yeah, I know it's not as fast, blah blah, but using j2ee, and a lot of the different technologies, we have done some amazing stuff. I know a lot of people here though think Java is the greatest, or c++ is, but in all reality, whatver gets the job done faster, easier, and cheaper, that's all that really matters to me :)