Can not decide between 9800 Pro or FX 5900

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08-28-2003, 04:18 AM
Prindel

Can not decide between 9800 Pro or FX 5900

I am going to be upgrading my system in just a few days, and am really having problems deciding on what video card I should have in it. The Radeon 9800 Pro is very tempting but was looking at the MSI FX5900 128 meg on newegg which goes for 412. I've always been using Nvidia video cards but if ATI has fixed their driver issues then I definitely am interested.

I see some of you have the Epox 8RDA+ motherboard here, and I'm just curious heh. It is an nforce2 board so would the radeon 9800 pro be stable on it? Does anyone have a Radeon they are using on a Epox 8RDA+ motherboard? Ok I guess that's all my questions. It seems both the FX5900 and the 9800 Pro are getting good reviews, so I guess it just comes down to preference. Let me know what you all think.

Prindel
08-28-2003, 04:25 AM
KaoTiK

Re: Can not decide between 9800 Pro or FX 5900

Quote:

Originally posted by Prindel
I am going to be upgrading my system in just a few days, and am really having problems deciding on what video card I should have in it. The Radeon 9800 Pro is very tempting but was looking at the MSI FX5900 128 meg on newegg which goes for 412. I've always been using Nvidia video cards but if ATI has fixed their driver issues then I definitely am interested.

I see some of you have the Epox 8RDA+ motherboard here, and I'm just curious heh. It is an nforce2 board so would the radeon 9800 pro be stable on it? Does anyone have a Radeon they are using on a Epox 8RDA+ motherboard? Ok I guess that's all my questions. It seems both the FX5900 and the 9800 Pro are getting good reviews, so I guess it just comes down to preference. Let me know what you all think.

Prindel

Generally, people are going to say that ATi drivers are 100% perfect and they're unbelievably awesomely flawless with no problems ever whatsoever at all. And its like a paradise.

It's not. You're either lucky, or you're not with ATi. I hated them back when the Radeon 64 VIVO came out, because I tried it, and hated the drivers... and I still hate their drivers, with my 9700 Pro. The card is fast as a *****, but good lord I dispise ATi's drivers. :(
08-28-2003, 05:57 AM
mikeysg

Generally, I agree with Kaotik that SF members tend to tilt towards the ATI camp - BUT there are reasons for this. Some like ATI as they make damn fast cards, some do not like nVidia's business practices (I have no intention of starting a flamewar here guys, merely stating some members' POV:) ). I've used nVidia's cards before, GF2MX400 and the excellent Ti4200, and I've found them to be trouble-free. As for ATI, maybe I'm lucky but I have almost no problem with their drivers. (except for that visual glitch with AA on for Splinter Cell, and odd shadow effects for Serious Sam, these problem may have workaround solutions but I just couldn't bother with patches and whatnot) So far, I've played other games like Unreal II, UT2003, Will Rock, Blackhawk Down to name but afew, no problem whatsoever. With regards to the nForce2 mobos and 9800Pro combo, I haven't heard of any problem here (But then, I could have missed their posts). There are a good number of members running Abit and Epox nForce2 mobos with the 9800Pro w/o any problem. Mine is such a combination too. As I've stated in other posts, listen to our views and make your own decisions based on views and, most importantly, your OWN prefernce and set of values. Ultimately, it's YOUR decision and you gotta live with it.;) :)
08-28-2003, 06:09 AM
KaoTiK

Quote:

Originally posted by mikeysg
Generally, I agree with Kaotik that SF members tend to tilt towards the ATI camp - BUT there are reasons for this. Some like ATI as they make damn fast cards, some do not like nVidia's business practices (I have no intention of starting a flamewar here guys, merely stating some members' POV:) ). I've used nVidia's cards before, GF2MX400 and the excellent Ti4200, and I've found them to be trouble-free. As for ATI, maybe I'm lucky but I have almost no problem with their drivers. (except for that visual glitch with AA on for Splinter Cell, and odd shadow effects for Serious Sam, these problem may have workaround solutions but I just couldn't bother with patches and whatnot) So far, I've played other games like Unreal II, UT2003, Will Rock, Blackhawk Down to name but afew, no problem whatsoever. With regards to the nForce2 mobos and 9800Pro combo, I haven't heard of any problem here (But then, I could have missed their posts). There are a good number of members running Abit and Epox nForce2 mobos with the 9800Pro w/o any problem. Mine is such a combination too. As I've stated in other posts, listen to our views and make your own decisions based on views and, most importantly, your OWN prefernce and set of values. Ultimately, it's YOUR decision and you gotta live with it.;) :)

Nice post, I really like the part where you say it's his decision. lol ;)

But yeah... ATi's drivers are odd like that, some people they are beautiful for, and some people not, it all depends on your set of games. With nVidia, I never had any problems with any of the games I played. With ATi, there are several problems with several of the games I play, including Texture Corruptions, AA/AF problems, etc. Other than that, ATi drivers definately arent as convenient. With my 4200, I always just installed new Detonators over the old ones. If you do that with ATi, windows will go REALLY f-ing slow until you completely remove the old drivers, and put the new ones on extremely clean-like, lol. But yeah, like Mikey said, you're the only one who has to live with your decision, so decide wisely. :)
08-28-2003, 07:28 AM
mikeysg

Thanks Kaotik, I've always tried to be neutral about things (although I DID get in that nVidia optimization thing :o ). I remember now, reading afew of your posts about the trouble you were having with the 9700Pro you have, it's just plain weird how the drivers work well for someone, and totally (well, NOT exactly 'totally') screw things up for someone else. No driver's perfect so we've gotta decide what's important to us and stick to it.:) (I'm not using too many smileys now as I've be accused of smiley abuse.:( ):D
08-28-2003, 08:15 AM
Daywalker

Re: Can not decide between 9800 Pro or FX 5900

Quote:

Originally posted by Prindel
I am going to be upgrading my system in just a few days, and am really having problems deciding on what video card I should have in it. The Radeon 9800 Pro is very tempting but was looking at the MSI FX5900 128 meg on newegg which goes for 412. I've always been using Nvidia video cards but if ATI has fixed their driver issues then I definitely am interested.

I see some of you have the Epox 8RDA+ motherboard here, and I'm just curious heh. It is an nforce2 board so would the radeon 9800 pro be stable on it? Does anyone have a Radeon they are using on a Epox 8RDA+ motherboard? Ok I guess that's all my questions. It seems both the FX5900 and the 9800 Pro are getting good reviews, so I guess it just comes down to preference. Let me know what you all think.
Prindel

I've got the 8RDA+ and a 9800 Pro, not problems here. I play mostly WC3:TFT, RtCW, Enemy Terriotory, BF1942, and maybe a little Tribes 2 until Tribes 3 comes out.
08-28-2003, 09:09 AM
jamesavery22

I remember when the e7505 boards first hit the market and a little less than half of the people with 9700s would come on to 2cpu.com and post a thread "MY COMPUTER WILL NOT BOOT AT ALL..." Yeah thats not kool, especially when you just bought a 500$ mobo.... Some of these people were using their systems for big CAD work and similar business important things, they (sometimes their company) just couldnt afford a quadro board or a wildcat... I didnt really keep up with it but Im sure the people in that boat aren't using ATI now....

I mean, sometimes Id see a decent price on a 9800pro and be tempted but I guess I look at Ebay way more than anyone else here cause the whole "its cheaper than a 5900u" isnt true for me. Retail 5900Us have a handfull of auctions that go for 380-390 a day... One time some guy had 5-6 of those MSI nbox packages (the ones that go for like 550$) and they all went for under 400$ on ebay. The fact is much more board makes make 5900Us than they do 9800pros... So it is a lot easier to find them for a good price.

Search ebay for "(5900,fx5900,5900fx,5900u) (ultra,256,256m,256mb)" minus the quotes and you will find 30 of em

Search ebay for "(9800,9800pro) (256,256m,256mb)" and you'll find 8...

The only reason Id ever get a 9800 is because I found an awesome price and obviously that will probably never happen.

Bad drivers and bad availability... That will keep me at arms length forever.

If you dont need a card now wait as long as you possibly can. Personally I am awaiting the 9900pro release either for 5900u prices to drop really well or for nvidia to put out a new card to compete with ATI...
08-28-2003, 10:33 AM
Sprout

James,

I think your ebay comment is funny. Availability on ebay of 9800pro's may be low, but wouldn't that indicate that people like to hang on to them? R300 based cards certainly aren't difficult to find in online or retail shops. It was actually the NV35 cards that were short on availability for a long time.

As for drivers, I've had difficulty with every video card I've ever used (on my home comp), R100, GF2ti, MX440, R200, ti4200, ti4600. Maybe it's my fault (I am the common link...), but none of them has ever seemed flawless or fool-proof as far as drivers are concerned (oddly enough I remember the ol' Radeon 32DDR as giving me the fewest problems...), but I don't game that much, and I dink around with my home systems a lot.
I don't expect you'll have great difficulty with either card you get, though IMO, there's pretty much an equal chance of difficulty no matter which way you go.
08-28-2003, 10:58 AM
jamesavery22

Quote:

Originally posted by Sprout
James,

I think your ebay comment is funny. Availability on ebay of 9800pro's may be low, but wouldn't that indicate that people like to hang on to them? R300 based cards certainly aren't difficult to find in online or retail shops. It was actually the NV35 cards that were short on availability for a long time....

The majority of sellers that sell these cards are actual distributers, not individuals. But yeah thats what a lot of people think =) It kinda sucks for the individual that tries to sell items like a popular card since the distributers set the market. If you buy a card in bestbuy then want to sell it on ebay later you are screwed...

Yeah the NV35s were short everywhere, that was because only one company was actually making the boards, Flextronics. Thats definitely not the case now. For the ATI board the only people making them are ATI, gigabyte, and saphire... Correct me if I missed one. Nvidia has about 6 actually making their own boards now... So tides have turned, Nvidia definitely has availability in their favor...
08-28-2003, 11:51 AM
Findels

Quote:

Originally posted by jamesavery22
For the ATI board the only people making them are ATI, gigabyte, and saphire... Correct me if I missed one.

powercolor
08-28-2003, 12:04 PM
mikeysg

Latest news is that Asustek is jumping on the ATI bandwagon too.:)
08-28-2003, 03:21 PM
Sprout

Quote:

Originally posted by jamesavery22
The majority of sellers that sell these cards are actual distributers, not individuals. But yeah thats what a lot of people think =) It kinda sucks for the individual that tries to sell items like a popular card since the distributers set the market. If you buy a card in bestbuy then want to sell it on ebay later you are screwed...

Yeah the NV35s were short everywhere, that was because only one company was actually making the boards, Flextronics. Thats definitely not the case now. For the ATI board the only people making them are ATI, gigabyte, and saphire... Correct me if I missed one. Nvidia has about 6 actually making their own boards now... So tides have turned, Nvidia definitely has availability in their favor...

I know Nvidia's origional plan was only to have one manufacturer distribute boards to it's partners. I didn't know that'd changed, but I don't really care.

I just don't understand how you can say that availability is in anyone's favor. I've not heard of anyone having trouble getting their hands on a non-AIW flavor ATI card in many months. Just seems like a strange arguement.

And finally, the number of manufacturers of a particular card is no way to judge availability. That's a purely asinine arguement.
08-28-2003, 03:35 PM
Paladyr

Has nVidia fixed all the rendering problems with the FX5900?? I honestly don't know, haven't paid attention in a while.

I have yet to have any problems with my 9700 FWIW.
08-28-2003, 03:49 PM
Un4given

The only problem I ever had with my 8500 was after one of the CS updates and a special patch had to be installed, but that problem was caused by the modifications to CS by the programmers, not by ATi's drivers. Other than that, I never had any problems.

I have had a problem with Unreal II and my current GF4 card. The problem was massively corrupted textures on the characters. I did solve that with an driver upgrade, but the point is that there are glitches in nVidia drivers as well.
08-28-2003, 04:36 PM
Donut

Quote:

Originally posted by Findels
powercolor

Tyan, Gigacube, Hercules, Triplex, soon to be asus (as mikey said)...I think there's more, but those are the only additional ones I could think of off the top of my head. I really don't believe the availability of Radeons is any less than the GeForceFX cards, especially seeing as that all models of cards based on the r350 core have been out for substantially longer than the NV35.

To add a little twist to the driver debate, I've owned one voodoo card, 2 NVidia cards, and now 2 ATI cards, and the ONLY card that has given me driver/compatibility issues was my GF3 ti200.

Further, here's a little snip from a newsbit at www.3dgpu.com

Quote:

This isn't confirmed as 100% official, so keep that in mind. On the HalfLife2.net forums, a gamer emailed Gabe Newell of Valve Software, and asked him a question in regards to GeForce FX cards dismal performance in Tomb Raider using PS 2.0 brought up by the article on Beyond3D (see this post). Here's the question he asked Gabe:

Is a ATi 9800pro card really alot better for HL2 then Nvidia's FX5900? Or is the difference not that big (quality & fps wise)?
Here's the answer he got:

I have been a long-time NVIDIA card user. Currently I have ATI 9800 Pro's in both my work and home machines.

The DX9 performance described by the Beyond3D article is consistent with what we've been seeing.
If the email really is from Gabe, then this just doesn't bode well for NVIDIA for their current line of cards.