Convince Me!

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09-15-2003, 07:55 PM
dudewth

Convince Me!

I see everyone talking about how they want the newest 20.1 speakers and I always wonder why. I have Logitech Z560's (only bought them because they were $100 shipped) and almost feel like I don't even want the rear satellites. I'm seriously considering giving someone these as a gift and maybe getting the klipsch 2.1's for myself.

Now, try to explain to me why a number bigger than 2.1 is useful. Here are my counters right now. For gaming speakers are horrible, always. The only time they're good is if you want to "feel" the bass or thunder etc, but still that doesn't make it enough for me. Also, for music 2 speakers are just as good as 4 or 5 and for sound quality headphones that cost $10 are better than your $200 speakers (slight exaggeration). The only thing I can see more speakers being good for is playing DVDs, but I have a TV with surround sound speakers at my disposal, so that's no good.
09-15-2003, 08:02 PM
Isezumi

Can't convince you...

However OTHER PEOPLE don't have the same presuppositions that you do.
09-15-2003, 08:05 PM
dudewth

Quote:

Originally posted by Isezumi
Can't convince you...

However OTHER PEOPLE don't have the same presuppositions that you do.

I know, that's the point. They should try to convince me.
09-15-2003, 08:09 PM
Fig

/me uses Jedi Mind Trick and says..."You like surround better"

http://socalsportbikes.com/xmb/images/smilies/dunno.gif
09-15-2003, 08:44 PM
Isezumi

Quote:

Now, try to explain to me why a number bigger than 2.1 is useful. Here are my counters right now. For gaming speakers are horrible, always.

Poll: How important is Sound to Gaming

Quote:

The only time they're good is if you want to "feel" the bass or thunder etc, but still that doesn't make it enough for me.

Feeling Bass is a quality of the subwoofer, and is not limited to strictly multichannel systems. You are creating a generalization based on your Z560s, which are known for their copious bass reproduction.

Quote:

Also, for music 2 speakers are just as good as 4 or 5 and for sound quality headphones that cost $10 are better than your $200 speakers (slight exaggeration).

They are not "Just as Good" at producing the high quality of DVD-A SACD tracks, which if you have heard in person are nothing short of draw dropping phenominal on good speakers. Headphones are accoustically a completely different beast then speakers. This arguement is akin to saying "My Dodge Viper Hennessy is faster then your Ford F650 Super Duty Diesel v12", yes it is faster, however if I were to put 10000 lbs worth of cargo on your Viper it would most likely resemble a pancake, while the F650 prolly wouldnt even sag more then 3" in rear springs. In short its a Red Herring, it has no merit in the conversation, don't bring it up.

Quote:

The only thing I can see more speakers being good for is playing DVDs, but I have a TV with surround sound speakers at my disposal, so that's no good.

and how much did your speakers set cost you?? cause I dont believe it was $321 incluidng shipping and handling. ;)
09-15-2003, 09:08 PM
natgun

when i can shoot people through walls in counterstrike, just by the sound of thier footsteps, id say thats a reason to own a 4.1 or greater setup. 2.1 just cant compare with the positioning. also, i enjoy the full engulfing sound that 4.1s can create, the music fills my room. i can immediately tell when my speakers are set to 2.1 instead of the full 4.1. just as a pointer, the z560s blow. get some klipsches paired with a good sound card and the difference will astound you.
09-15-2003, 09:32 PM
XP1800

One reason I love 5.1 is because my ears are on the side of my head, hot in the front.

I just recently set up the other 3 speakers to my 5.1 setup and instantly music and watching DVD's became more enjoyable.
09-15-2003, 09:38 PM
soupnazi

More speakers is more louder...lol;)
09-16-2003, 12:16 AM
Isezumi

Quote:

Originally posted by soupnazi
More speakers is more louder...lol;)

Ironically enough, that is true.
09-17-2003, 11:30 PM
coolqf

Ironically... I have found a 4.1 setup to be more overwhelming than a 2.1 setup. I felt like... If I was going to throw a party, the 4.1 setup would hit the spot....

The 4.1 setup that i'm talking about is the Klipsch Promedia 4.1....
The soundcard of choice at the time was the Audigy1.

I did notice how a 4.1 setup over a 2.1 is 'WOW!!!' But more times than not I would be like 'ugh, that thing i just too much' Even with lowering of the volume I still felt that way.

I'm 99% primarily a music listener.
09-18-2003, 11:50 PM
dudewth

Quote:

Originally posted by Isezumi
Feeling Bass is a quality of the subwoofer, and is not limited to strictly multichannel systems. You are creating a generalization based on your Z560s, which are known for their copious bass reproduction.

I was comparing between headphones and speakers there, not different speaker sets.

Quote:

Originally posted by Isezumi
They are not "Just as Good" at producing the high quality of DVD-A SACD tracks, which if you have heard in person are nothing short of draw dropping phenominal on good speakers. Headphones are accoustically a completely different beast then speakers. This arguement is akin to saying "My Dodge Viper Hennessy is faster then your Ford F650 Super Duty Diesel v12", yes it is faster, however if I were to put 10000 lbs worth of cargo on your Viper it would most likely resemble a pancake, while the F650 prolly wouldnt even sag more then 3" in rear springs. In short its a Red Herring, it has no merit in the conversation, don't bring it up.

This is true, but given an audio track I don't see myself getting good speakers any time to match the sound quality of my headphones.

Quote:

Originally posted by Isezumi
and how much did your speakers set cost you?? cause I dont believe it was $321 incluidng shipping and handling. ;)

Is $0 less than $321? The TV, speakers, tuner and other components are all owned by my roommates.
09-18-2003, 11:53 PM
dudewth

Quote:

Originally posted by natgun
when i can shoot people through walls in counterstrike, just by the sound of thier footsteps, id say thats a reason to own a 4.1 or greater setup. 2.1 just cant compare with the positioning. also, i enjoy the full engulfing sound that 4.1s can create, the music fills my room. i can immediately tell when my speakers are set to 2.1 instead of the full 4.1. just as a pointer, the z560s blow. get some klipsches paired with a good sound card and the difference will astound you.

I bet that I can tell where people are much much better than you in counter-strike. Headphones are far superior to ANY speaker setup when it comes to FPSs especially counter-strike, trust me I've played it for a long time and have on at least 4 different speaker sets and a few pairs of headphones.

Also, my room is pretty damn big and if I am not in front of my computer then it sounds like the sound is pretty much coming out of a 2.1 system anyways. I'm not about to put the rear satellites on the other side of my room.
09-19-2003, 02:18 AM
Isezumi

Quote:

Originally posted by dudewth
I was comparing between headphones and speakers there, not different speaker sets.

Okay, you need to stick to specific realms of engagement, dragging headphones in and out of a debate where you see fit only displays weakness in the character of your debate not any strength of your actual point. Don't turn into GlueGun on me.

Quote:

Originally posted by dudewth

This is true, but given an audio track I don't see myself getting good speakers any time to match the sound quality of my headphones.

If it is true, then the merit of you being able to afford speakers of proper quality is irrelevant.

Quote:

Originally posted by dudewth
Is $0 less than $321? The TV, speakers, tuner and other components are all owned by my roommates.

YOU DON"T OWN IT. Therefore you don't have a hometheater, your roomate does. You just use it.

**** when I lived at home I could have saved money hand over fist by using my Dads 15 year old Infinity Kappa 9's which are $1500 speakers, each. And his whole SAE setup which prolly totaled upwards of $2500 and said "Hey look at MY awesome speakers setup.", but it wasn't mine it was someone elses that I was able to use. So once again, stop hiding behind improper semantics.

Quote:

Originally posted by dudewth

I bet that I can tell where people are much much better than you in counter-strike. Headphones are far superior to ANY speaker setup when it comes to FPSs especially counter-strike, trust me I've played it for a long time and have on at least 4 different speaker sets and a few pairs of headphones.

And I BET your LYING out your butt. Headphones are intrinsically Stereo, all you have is left and right, all you got is some propritary /Sensura library that matrixes out sound positions which might not even be all that accurate. NOW were seeing FPS that have sound tracks WRITTEN multichannel, like 100% guaranteed accurate localization of sound.

But please continue with your compeling arguement...
09-19-2003, 03:24 PM
dudewth

Quote:

Originally posted by Isezumi
Okay, you need to stick to specific realms of engagement, dragging headphones in and out of a debate where you see fit only displays weakness in the character of your debate not any strength of your actual point. Don't turn into GlueGun on me.

OK. If you could read you would realize that I was talking about headphones in the whole second paragraph of my original statement.

Quote:

Originally posted by Isezumi
If it is true, then the merit of you being able to afford speakers of proper quality is irrelevant.

The reason I said this is true is that there will always be a set of speakers that costs more than my house that will be better than whatever we are talking about, but that's not the point.

Quote:

Originally posted by Isezumi
YOU DON"T OWN IT. Therefore you don't have a hometheater, your roomate does. You just use it.

**** when I lived at home I could have saved money hand over fist by using my Dads 15 year old Infinity Kappa 9's which are $1500 speakers, each. And his whole SAE setup which prolly totaled upwards of $2500 and said "Hey look at MY awesome speakers setup.", but it wasn't mine it was someone elses that I was able to use. So once again, stop hiding behind improper semantics.

When the hell did I say I owned it? In my post it says "I have ... at my disposal," it doesn't say "I'm rich and buy all kinds of stuff for my entertainment center." If I can use it anytime I want to, why would I care if it's mine or not.

Quote:

Originally posted by Isezumi
And I BET your LYING out your butt. Headphones are intrinsically Stereo, all you have is left and right, all you got is some propritary /Sensura library that matrixes out sound positions which might not even be all that accurate. NOW were seeing FPS that have sound tracks WRITTEN multichannel, like 100% guaranteed accurate localization of sound.

But please continue with your compeling arguement...

I know from experience that headphones in counter-strike own the hell out of speakers. Also, it's you're in the first sentence and compelling has 2 L's.
09-20-2003, 01:06 AM
Isezumi

Quote:

Originally posted by dudewth
OK. If you could read you would realize that I was talking about headphones in the whole second paragraph of my original statement.

Quote:

Originally posted by dudewth
Now, try to explain to me why a number bigger than 2.1 is useful. Here are my counters right now. For gaming speakers are horrible, always. The only time they're good is if you want to "feel" the bass or thunder etc, but still that doesn't make it enough for me. Also, for music 2 speakers are just as good as 4 or 5 and for sound quality headphones that cost $10 are better than your $200 speakers (slight exaggeration). The only thing I can see more speakers being good for is playing DVDs, but I have a TV with surround sound speakers at my disposal, so that's no good.

I bolded the first time that you ever mentioned the use of headphones, notice how its your second to last sentence. This pretty much removes all possibility of me having read your mind and having foreknowledge that you were talking about headphones from the very beginning.

Quote:

Originally posted by dudewth

The reason I said this is true is that there will always be a set of speakers that costs more than my house that will be better than whatever we are talking about, but that's not the point.

Again with the intentional exaggeration to lend unmerited weight to your argument. Yeah there is always something better, however THE POINT is that you don't have to take a Mortgage to afford it. Excellent speaker sets can be had for less then $5000. So unless you are admitting that you live in a run down old 6'x9' shack by the river quality components can be had for FAR less then a house.

Quote:

Originally posted by dudewth

When the hell did I say I owned it? In my post it says "I have ... at my disposal," it doesn't say "I'm rich and buy all kinds of stuff for my entertainment center." If I can use it anytime I want to, why would I care if it's mine or not.

Apparently you need to look up the meaing of "at my disposal"...unless your roommates let you throw out (dispose of) their possessions at your whim, Which I doubt to the Nth degree, then it is not "at your disposal" by any stretch of the imagination.

Quote:

Originally posted by dudewth

I know from experience that headphones in counter-strike own the hell out of speakers. Also, it's you're in the first sentence and compelling has 2 L's.

Really that's funny, cause I know for a fact (like science fact) that headphones can't touch the accuracy and positioning of independent sound sources. Secondly, don't attempt to Spelling Nazi me... Mr.

Quote:

Originally posted by dudewth

...are much much better...

Can't seperate two adjectives with a coma...

Quote:

Originally posted by dudewth
...when it comes to FPSs especially ...

Doesn't even pluaralize 'First Person Shooter' properly...

Quote:

Originally posted by dudewth

If I can use it anytime I want to, why would I care if it's mine or not.

Sentence Fragment.

Oh yeah, and when you're quoting someone, you use quotation marks. Thusly:

Quote:

Originally posted by dudewth

Also, it's "you're" in the first sentence and compelling has 2 "L"'s.

:p

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