MacBook Pro Retina Discussion

AnandTech has a fantastic write-up on the new MacBook Pro with Retina here. They don't just show performance, heat, and noise numbers and throw up a score like most sites. The very interesting portions were how Apple scaling software works, what programs are having trouble with the Retina resolution, the story behind the Intel/Nvidia partnership, and how the hardware in the rMBP is sometimes barely capable of drawing the massive resolution, even when just surfing the web.

Heres a snippet:

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To be quite honest, the hardware in the rMBP isn’t enough to deliver a consistently smooth experience across all applications. At 2880 x 1800 most interactions are smooth but things like zooming windows or scrolling on certain web pages is clearly sub-30fps. At the higher scaled resolutions, since the GPU has to render as much as 9.2MP, even UI performance can be sluggish. There’s simply nothing that can be done at this point - Apple is pushing the limits of the hardware we have available today, far beyond what any other OEM has done.

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Some elements of drawing in Safari for example aren’t handled by the GPU. Quickly scrolling up and down on the AnandTech home page will peg one of the four IVB cores in the rMBP at 100%

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Throw a more complex website at it and things get bad quickly. Facebook combines a lot of compressed images with text - every single image is decompressed on the CPU before being handed off to the GPU. Combine that with other elements that are processed on the CPU and you get a recipe for choppy scrolling.

While last year’s MBP delivered anywhere from 46 - 60 fps during this test [facebook scrolling], the rMBP hovered around 20 fps (18 - 24 fps was the typical range).



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Whereas I would consider the rMBP experience under Lion to be borderline unacceptable, everything is significantly better under Mountain Lion. Don’t expect buttery smoothness across the board, you’re still asking a lot of the CPU and GPU, but it’s a lot better.


With the Retina MacBook Pro I get the distinct impression it was launched before the software was ready to support it.

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It seems that it would be a good idea to wait for Haswell before the normal user jumps on the Retina display version of the MacBook Pro. I'm sure the typical experience would be fine, but I'm just thinking about the component stress. The CPU and GPU are working extremely hard while simply surfing the net. I can see why they needed a 25% larger capacity battery than the normal MBP.

They also discuss Boot Camp issues. Windows 7 runs okay with 1.5x DPI scaling for text, but a lot of third party applications are messed up. Text goes off the screen and some are broken.

I'm surprised that Apple would release a MBP that has a choppy web surfing experience, but maybe its not as bad as Anandtech makes it out to be.

i just want "retina" on my desktop monitor... even 2560x1440 on a 23-24" IPS panel would make me happy.. a modern single chip desktop gpu can drive that easily

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Originally Posted by kpxgq

i just want "retina" on my desktop monitor... even 2560x1440 on a 23-24" IPS panel would make me happy.. a modern single chip desktop gpu can drive that easily

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Aye. That's the inbetween state I've wanted for a while. Instead I see most companies making 27" displays with 1920x1080 resolutions and they look like garbage.

Yeah I need a new laptop and was really close to buying a rMBP. I like the idea of Retina, but the speed issues, and fuzzy images and such are just showing me that it's better to wait a bit and let everything catch up.

Plus I really need portability more and 15" @ 4.5lbs isn't really what I want.

I think I may just skip Retina for now and grab a new loaded 13" MBA.

Ok well I just bit the bullet and ordered it. 13" MBA with 2.0 i7, 8GB, and 256GB SSD. Pretty stoked.

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Originally Posted by vertices

Ok well I just bit the bullet and ordered it. 13" MBA with 2.0 i7, 8GB, and 256GB SSD. Pretty stoked.

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I just gone one! It's AMAZING. I've been wanting a MacBook Air since it first came out, but 4GB just doesn't cut it for me. I couldn't ever see myself downgrading to that. I've been carrying a 13" MBP with me for about 3 years now. It's not leaving the house tomorrow. Probably never again.

This thing is amazing. I can not believe it. By far the best computer I have ever owned, and by a wide margin. It's light behind imagination. Makes the old MBP feel like a ton of bricks. It's actually faster. I used to always run my MBP with the lid closed when using a 1080p external display because it would lag. I can do that now no problem, and the screen on the notebook itself is much better. Makes a huge difference to my eyes since I've gotten used to reading on the Retina iPad. 1440x900 on a 13" might not be Retina, but it is a lot better than 1280x800 for text.

The SSD in this thing is insane. The main reason I wanted to get away from the MBP is that it was just getting slow with all the crap I had on it. I had a 1TB 5400 RPM drive, but things like Photoshop and Final Cut have become so large that the machine would crawl. Once it got into memory it was fine, but I never liked to shut things down because I knew what awaited me.

Also, this thing is silent. The loudest thing on my desk is an 2TB external drive.

It's awesome. Just awesome. So awesome.

Only downside: Speakers are outright horrible. The internal speakers in my old MPB weren't great, but you could at least listen to something on low volume and it wasn't painful. The noise that comes out of this thing is outright painful. But I guess that's kind of expected.

I ordered a 1440p 27" monitor to use with my new MBP. I got a mini-DP to Dual Link DVI powered adapter. It will be interesting to see how the HD 4000 fairs with a 1440p screen. I think it will be fine as I can run a 1680x1080 external monitor + the 1280x800 monitor fine right now. The 27" will be around 25% more pixels, but I don't think it will be an issue.

As for gaming at 1440p...

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Originally Posted by Timman_24

I ordered a 1440p 27" monitor to use with my new MBP. I got a mini-DP to Dual Link DVI powered adapter. It will be interesting to see how the HD 4000 fairs with a 1440p screen. I think it will be fine as I can run a 1680x1080 external monitor + the 1280x800 monitor fine right now. The 27" will be around 25% more pixels, but I don't think it will be an issue.

As for gaming at 1440p...

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The HD 4000 should be able to do 4K no problem. Gaming at 720p.

That's great to hear Ima. I can't wait for it to show up. I was expecting sound to not be so hot. I mean, you have to make some sacrifices to have such a small and lightweight chassis. I can always plug in some headphones or external speakers if I need better sound.

I'm excited. I've had a Mac Pro (desktop) before which I bought for $350, played with for a few days, and then sold on Ebay for $900. Then I got an iMac on my side desk at work (20" Core 2 with 2GB) for free from a client. That's when I really started messing around with them and learning what makes them tick and how to get them to interact with Windows Domains and such. So this is my first brand new OSX system that consists of modern hardware.

My wife is a teacher so has a MacBook with Lion issued by the school. It's older though and is just the white plain MacBook. However even it it is really smooth. I really dig the interface. Hell even the trackpad simply blows away Windows based laptops.

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Originally Posted by ImaNihilist

The HD 4000 should be able to do 4K no problem. Gaming at 720p.

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I was debating on whether to get 2xU2412m's or one 27" 1440p. I found during my research that DP/thunderbolt to dual screens needs a Matrox DualHead2Go right now. I thought thunderbolt supported two screens in one port, but I guess there isn't a good solution right now. I can't wait for DP screen with daisy chain capabilities. Multiple monitors is still a PITA a lot of times.

I also would have though thunderbolt break out boxes would be more mainstream, but the more reputable solutions are 200+ dollars.

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Originally Posted by Timman_24

I was debating on whether to get 2xU2412m's or one 27" 1440p. I found during my research that DP/thunderbolt to dual screens needs a Matrox DualHead2Go right now. I thought thunderbolt supported two screens in one port, but I guess there isn't a good solution right now. I can't wait for DP screen with daisy chain capabilities. Multiple monitors is still a PITA a lot of times.

I also would have though thunderbolt break out boxes would be more mainstream, but the more reputable solutions are 200+ dollars.

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Apple is trying to promote daisy-chaining over hubs. They did it with Firewire too. The idea is that if every device can be daisy-chained then a hub is never necessary.

I don't think we will see Thunderbolt on non-Apple displays though, which kind of sucks.

Apparently the HDMI out on the rMBP can't do resolutions above 1080p? I mean I understand that it was put in there to hook the computer up to a TV and it let them save a few cents by getting a cheaper controller, but come on. This is a 2200+ dollar laptop we're talking about here.

Having trouble finding the link, but I've seen conversations about it being some sort of licensing issues.

If you really really want HDMI you can edit the EDID for the monitor. I spent a few long hours screwing with it a while back and never made it work for my u3011 in linux though.

Best I've gotten is 2048x1280 over HDMI before it craps the bed.

Further reading:
http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum...?t=1479962&p=8
http://en.community.dell.com/support.../19337853.aspx


PS: I should have mentioned my roadblock mostly came from the fact that I'm trying to force the onboard intel chip to push beyond what it's supposed to. With the 650M the EDID hacks should be capable of going all the way.

Finally had the chance to play with a Retina MBP in person. Wow. I can't find words to describe the screen, it seems even better than the Retina iPad screen. It's also amazingly thin and light. Doesn't quite feel like a 15" MacBook Air, but considering the specs it's amazing how tiny it is. It's also slightly less long/wide than the old 15" Pro because of the smaller bezel, not by a huge amount but significant enough to be noticeable.

The issue that most content hasn't been upgraded for a Retina screen, both websites and many apps, is definitely noticeable, but I predict that this will get much better very soon as developers take note.

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Originally Posted by Steven P Jobs

Finally had the chance to play with a Retina MBP in person. Wow. I can't find words to describe the screen, it seems even better than the Retina iPad screen. It's also amazingly thin and light. Doesn't quite feel like a 15" MacBook Air, but considering the specs it's amazing how tiny it is. It's also slightly less long/wide than the old 15" Pro because of the smaller bezel, not by a huge amount but significant enough to be noticeable.

The issue that most content hasn't been upgraded for a Retina screen, both websites and many apps, is definitely noticeable, but I predict that this will get much better very soon as developers take note.

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I don't know about that. There are still quite a few apps on the iPad that haven't been updated. I have a feeling the major applications will get quick updates, but it may be a year or more for some of the other stuff.