Training camp starts next week! Bring on the football.
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Training camp starts next week! Bring on the football.
Here's what I was talking about. Arizona and Detroit make the list every year in similar columns.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/column...ohn&id=2932670
He's a good safety that is far, FAR from complete. It's not that he is average in coverage, it is that he is a liability, and is easily exploitable. Word is that he's going to be playing a lot closer to the line this year, in sort of an OLB/safety hybrid type of thing, which plays to his strengths. It's a good thing for them that they've done a lot of work on the pass rush this past off season, because without pressure on the QB opposing offenses will just carve him up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spank_Me_Hard
Hmmm... I haven't seen that myself, or heard it really discussed before.Quote:
Originally Posted by monroeski
He is a big safety, with great speed/range.
Maybe the system that he is in tries to have him play a lot of man on man with recievers? For a guy that big, it's hard for them to play man on man with a WR.
I would think that having him play a deep zone would play to his abilities nicely.
Of course one of his strengths is run support... and a safety (who excels in run support) alsways can get suckered up with a good play action pass.
There has been plenty of great safeties in the past who have been of this same mold... Atwater from Denver, and even Darren Woodson from Dallas... and have excelled with that same skillset.
I have not seen Williams being a liability in the passing game. In fact, I've seen Newman get burned a lot more...
It seems like the Afc west is always in post season. I am watching nfl classics and the afc west is well represented. Hopefully, the Raiders will start being part of that sooner then later.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vairox
Um...ok.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spank_Me_Hard
First off, Tiki solved his fumbling years again, and Jacobs actually had a few fumbles in his limited carries.
Arrington is a free agent, and was involved in a car accident in the offseason. I think he is probably done.
Lastly..every year we are waiting for Manning to develop. It just never seems to happen. Even if he could actually play, he has zero leadership skills.
Um... ok.
Tiki had a low number of fumbles for two years... which BARELY qualifies for "years" ago (which implies that it is ancient history... which it is not).Quote:
First off, Tiki solved his fumbling years again, and Jacobs actually had a few fumbles in his limited carries.
Three years ago, he had 5. Four years ago... he had NINE... which in fact was where he was pretty consistent with his previous few years (i.e. a "history" of fumbling).
Would he have "solved" it this year? We'll never know.
You saying that Tiki "solved" his fumbling is like saying that Vinny Testeverde "solved" throwing interceptions.
Too much raw talent. Could be "done", but I doubt it. Maybe "done" with the Giants, but my guess is that he signs somewhere... if even just for a lower salary.Quote:
Arrington is a free agent, and was involved in a car accident in the offseason. I think he is probably done.
LOL!Quote:
Lastly..every year we are waiting for Manning to develop. It just never seems to happen. Even if he could actually play, he has zero leadership skills.
You're kidding right?
Manning has been in the league only for three years now. With only two as a fulltime starter.
He has thrown for 24 TDs, 17 INTs and 24TDs, 18 INTs respectively for those two full years of starting. His QB rating has raised every year (even if only by one point last year).
As for "leadership"... exactly how are you measuring that? Poking each QB with your "leadership-o-meter"?
You strike me as the perpetual Philly fan... minimizing your own teams deficiencies while blowing up another teams (and I am not Giants lover... in fact, I hate them).
So let's look at McNabbs first three years...
And they are shockingly close to Manning's overall.
So a rookie QB with a lot of hype comes in... and isn't the fulltime starter the first year (they had Kurt Warner that year who Manning was supposed to learn under).
He throws more TDs than INTs (by a fair amount) each of the full two years that he actually starts... and you are ready to proclaim "It just never seems to happen", and "he can't play".
LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL!
I think that he's doing just fine.
I wonder if you were saying the same thing about McNabb in his first three seasons...
Put on your rose coloured glasses when talking about Philly... and take them off when talking about the rest of the league.
Um... ok.
I noticed earlier today that Peter King of all people has the Lions in the middle of the pack as far as preseason rankings go. I've never liked that guy, he hates Seattle.Quote:
Originally Posted by spamjedi
Even my friends that are Giants fans think he sucks. When you walk off the field, shoulders slumped with an "awe shucks" look about you after throwing an interception, there is somethign wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spank_Me_Hard
He has had LOADS of talent around him on offense. A top 5 running back, a very good tight end, and a huge reciever that bails him out constantly, outjumping a defender when he makes his patented "fade away lob pass". You cannot compare the weapons he has and the weapons Mcnabb had in his first 3 years. How many games has he won in that span? How many did Mcnabb win in his first 3 full years as a starter?
His qb rating last year was 77....it went up from about 76...big improvement :eek:
TD to INT, you are right, he has thrown more TD's than INT's. 54-44. But since you are so eager to compare him to Mcnabb..who boasts a gaudy ratio of 152 to 72. His first 2 full years it was 46-25. Not that I am here to compare the 2, but if we must.
Also, Arrington was done BEFORE he even arrived in NY. I think it was his knees. Also, Washington got tired of him freelancing and ignoring his assignments. He was not even starter before he left. Physical talent?...yes he HAD loads. Mental?...up for debate.
And with Tiki's fumbling, it was well reported that he completely changed the way that he carried the ball. Every game they showed the difference pretty much. That, combined with the low fumble totals for the last 2 years, lead me to have my opinion that the fumbling problem was solved.
You have never heard of his pass defending problems? Do you even watch football? This year it has really been exploited, but he has never been very good against the past. Now teams just pretty much pick on him. Even if they play him up in the box more this year, he stil needs to be able to help with deep coverageUnless they are gonna play 8 men in the box all year. I for one love the guy, I know every game we get one deep touchdown pass off him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spank_Me_Hard
Darren Wodson was a pretty good all around safety, And Neman is a very good corner.
Giants fans are one of the worst knee jerk reaction fans in the league. Exceeded only by maybe Philly fans.Quote:
Even my friends that are Giants fans think he sucks. When you walk off the field, shoulders slumped with an "awe shucks" look about you after throwing an interception, there is somethign wrong.
I wouldn't put too much stock in what the average Giants fans thinks of Manning.
As for the "awe shucks" looks... what is more appropriate... a celebration? Indifference?
Disappointed, or even angry with oneself I think is a 100% predictable reaction. Not sure how you think that he should look after throwing a pick...
What does McNabb do? Give the offense high 5's ?!?
You are absolutely right.Quote:
He has had LOADS of talent around him on offense. A top 5 running back, a very good tight end, and a huge reciever that bails him out constantly,
But this is only 1/2 of the story... you yourself say their "D" is no good. If you are right, this would seem to mean that they are playing catch up a fair bit.
Unless that is you are going to reverse the statement and say that their D has been stellar.
You are right... McNabb had a MUCH better D backing him up than Manning had in his first few years.Quote:
You cannot compare the weapons he has and the weapons Mcnabb had in his first 3 years. How many games has he won in that span? How many did Mcnabb win in his first 3 full years as a starter?
Ergo, McNabb wasn't forced to abandon the running game nearly as much as Manning had to (you know... more pass defences, more pass rush, team becomes one dimensional, less ability to use that "top 5" running back the way that they want too).
Yes... let's compare.Quote:
TD to INT, you are right, he has thrown more TD's than INT's. 54-44. But since you are so eager to compare him to Mcnabb..who boasts a gaudy ratio of 152 to 72. His first 2 full years it was 46-25. Not that I am here to compare the 2, but if we must.
Interesting to see you prop McNabb's "gaudy" ration for his... um... CAREER.
Sweet. Since Manning has been in the league for all but what... THREE years, there is no way that we can compare the two apples for apples.
So the best that I can do is to compare both of their first three years.
(re: your "gaudy" career stats we can toss right out the window for the sake of this discussion... time to take off the rose coloured glasses for a bit)
Manning's QB rating (average) for his first three years is like 69.
McNabb's is like 77.
Different yes... but hardly earth shattering difference.
So what... given those numbers... if by your description... Manning can't play the game... what does that make McNabb in his first three years? Below average?
Is that what you were saying about McNabb after his first three years?
Manning has shown measureable improvement... so did McNabb.
And yet you basically call one a bust, and the other you seem to think can't do any wrong (i.e. we will be looking at the same McNabb this year... knee injury on a mobile QB and everything).
Interesting.
I for one look forward to watching McNabb be forced to be a pure pocket passer this year.
Let's see how good he can read a defense behind that vaunted Philly O-line.
My guess is that this will be his worst year in quite some time.
Lastly, it seems to me in this league now, you have a limited "window of opportunity" with a team that has been built to win a SB. Philly's "window" has been there for quite some time. Management has done a great job of keeping that "window" open.
And yet Philly has only come close once.
The law of averages will catch up with them at some point. They will lose players, coaches, and management to other teams (other teams LOVE to snipe off top successful talent) and Philly's window will CLOSE.
There better be a sense of urgency with that team this year.
Three Pro Bowls thus far.Quote:
Originally Posted by md1198p
Apparently, I don't watch any football... but three Pro Bowls in his career sounds pretty good to me.
Not sure how exactly he earned those Pro Bowls... I'm sure that they only select safeties for their run defence.
Which begs the question... if he's so good against the run, and so bad against the pass... why don't they play him at Mike backer?
No... Williams is a GOOD safety.
LOL...funny stuff. The Pro Bowl is a popularity contest. Micheal Lewis was also a probowler...and we benched him last year for the SAME EXACT things Roy Williams does, give up a ton of huge plays in the passing game. Now he found himself on a 49ers, and the train camp reports are that they are very unhappy with his performance in the passing game. Who would have thought.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spank_Me_Hard
As for playing Roy at middle linebacker...are you on crack? he would get destroyed. He's a safety for gods sake...there is no way he could shed blocks as a middle linebacker.
I was obviously (though apparently not enough) and grossly (again... not enough) exaggerating.Quote:
Originally Posted by md1198p
I thought that everyone would "get" that.
I was wrong.
I agree with you to some extent about the Pro Bowl. But for the mostpart, I think that it is a good indicator of talent.
And apparently, scouts... GMs... and agents... agree with me.
My point is he has the poorest body language i have ever seen on a football field. You want your QB to be unflappable, or at least put the the appearance of it.Quote:
Giants fans are one of the worst knee jerk reaction fans in the league. Exceeded only by maybe Philly fans.
I wouldn't put too much stock in what the average Giants fans thinks of Manning.
As for the "awe shucks" looks... what is more appropriate... a celebration? Indifference?
Disappointed, or even angry with oneself I think is a 100% predictable reaction. Not sure how you think that he should look after throwing a pick...
What does McNabb do? Give the offense high 5's ?!?
No the defense has been bad. No excuse for not performing on offense when you have the weapons he has.Quote:
But this is only 1/2 of the story... you yourself say their "D" is no good. If you are right, this would seem to mean that they are playing catch up a fair bit.
Unless that is you are going to reverse the statement and say that their D has been stellar.
You ignored that I also posted his first 3 full years .Quote:
Yes... let's compare.
Interesting to see you prop McNabb's "gaudy" ration for his... um... CAREER.
Sweet. Since Manning has been in the league for all but what... THREE years, there is no way that we can compare the two apples for apples.
So the best that I can do is to compare both of their first three years.
(re: your "gaudy" career stats we can toss right out the window for the sake of this discussion... time to take off the rose coloured glasses for a bit)
Manning's QB rating (average) for his first three years is like 69.
McNabb's is like 77.
Different yes... but hardly earth shattering difference.
So what... given those numbers... if by your description... Manning can't play the game... what does that make McNabb in his first three years? Below average?
Is that what you were saying about McNabb after his first three years?
Until recently the Eagles stupidily ignored the running game anyway. He endured throwing pass after pass even when the other team knew exactly what was coming. They never abandoned the running game because they really did not use it. That stuff you posted about pass defenses and pass rush is ALL he has ever faced every play. And he still had success carrying the team offensively. Now Manning will probably have to do the same...lets see how it works out.Quote:
You are right... McNabb had a MUCH better D backing him up than Manning had in his first few years.
Ergo, McNabb wasn't forced to abandon the running game nearly as much as Manning had to (you know... more pass defences, more pass rush, team becomes one dimensional, less ability to use that "top 5" running back the way that they want too).
I would not count on the fact he will be completely immobile. Quite a few running backs have had the same procedure and went on to be there same productive self. He reads a defense and goes through his progressions very well...hence the OUTSTANDING td to INT ration.Quote:
I for one look forward to watching McNabb be forced to be a pure pocket passer this year.
Let's see how good he can read a defense behind that vaunted Philly O-line.
My guess is that this will be his worst year in quite some time.
Our window for our team in its current configuration will last as long as Mcnabb does...maybe 3 more years at a high level. The team itself is fairly young in a lot of positions, and we usually sign our guys young and let older players go. We also usually have a decent amount of cap room to fill holes and go after free agents if it makes sense. (IE Owens and Kearse in the same year (2004)).Quote:
Lastly, it seems to me in this league now, you have a limited "window of opportunity" with a team that has been built to win a SB. Philly's "window" has been there for quite some time. Management has done a great job of keeping that "window" open.
And yet Philly has only come close once.
The law of averages will catch up with them at some point. They will lose players, coaches, and management to other teams (other teams LOVE to snipe off top successful talent) and Philly's window will CLOSE.
There better be a sense of urgency with that team this year.
It's not wise to ignore the impact a bad D can (and does) have on a teams offense.Quote:
No the defense has been bad. No excuse for not performing on offense when you have the weapons he has.
When you get down... big... fast... and early, it changes your offensive gameplan. Period.
You can no longer afford to run the ball, grind it out, and play a possession game like you may have planned.
For a team with a good ground game, and a poor passing game... this is a death knell.
You can't imagine my glee when a poor passing team like Nebraska (yea... I know... college ball... but same concept) is forced into that situation.
And of course... the other teams D... knowing the situation that you are in... is going to play accordingly.
Thats true. I did. My bad.Quote:
You ignored that I also posted his first 3 full years.
My point was that McNabb's overall career numbers were not applicable to make a head to head comparison.
I disagree.Quote:
Until recently the Eagles stupidily ignored the running game anyway. He endured throwing pass after pass even when the other team knew exactly what was coming. They never abandoned the running game because they really did not use it. That stuff you posted about pass defenses and pass rush is ALL he has ever faced every play. And he still had success carrying the team offensively.
Philly very well may have CHOSEN to ignore the run... but the other team still had to honour it.
There's a HUGE difference between being forced to pass every play (and the other team knowing it) and CHOOSING to pass every play. Now I'm sure that the other team were aware of Philly's tendancies... but in a game that Philly wasn't behind huge... and in fact a lot of the time was leading... they still would have to honour the run.
Yes. This year will be a better indicator.Quote:
Now Manning will probably have to do the same...lets see how it works out.
FYI... there were a lot of people who wondered if Peyton Manning was going to be successful without Edgerrin James... that James helped contribute to what Manning was.
Well, with a much lesser back (still good... just not great)... Manning won a SB.
It's entirely possible that Tiki's retirement will not be that big of an impact.
Almost entirely in their second year back after the injury.Quote:
I would not count on the fact he will be completely immobile. Quite a few running backs have had the same procedure and went on to be there same productive self.
I personally can't think of any one player that blew out a knee that ended their season as was anywhere near their former self the very next season.
As in not even one.
This will be a very much different year for McNabb.
He also makes a lot of HUGE plays based off his legs.Quote:
He reads a defense and goes through his progressions very well...hence the OUTSTANDING td to INT ration.
From simple things like buying himself time scrambling out of the pocket, to scambling out of the pocket which in turn pressures the defense to not only cover their men... but to come up and honour his running ability.
How many times have you seen him flip a pass out to a guy who is open because the defence came up to get him? I have seen more than I care to remember (I cheer for Washington in the NFC).
For a largepart... kiss that ability goodbye for this year.
He will be forced to make the reads this year. I have never really been sold on his ability to have to rely on that... and he will be relying on it this year. I think that a VERY large number of his plays have resulted from his legs in one way or another.
I think that if McNabb becomes Bernie Kosar (in running ability), Philly's passing game is done.
Yes.Quote:
Our window for our team in its current configuration will last as long as Mcnabb does...maybe 3 more years at a high level. The team itself is fairly young in a lot of positions, and we usually sign our guys young and let older players go. We also usually have a decent amount of cap room to fill holes and go after free agents if it makes sense. (IE Owens and Kearse in the same year (2004)).
That is one VERY good things about your team... it has managed to reload maybe better than any other team that I have seen in the modern era.
But I think that time will catch up with it at some point. The law of averages cannot be denied forever... and it's already been too long for Philly.
You are right, a poor passing team will have a lot of problems when down early. And the Giants are a poor passing team....not because of there good recievers, great tight end, or the very good pass catching back they had, but because of the poor QB they have.Quote:
It's not wise to ignore the impact a bad D can (and does) have on a teams offense.
When you get down... big... fast... and early, it changes your offensive gameplan. Period.
You can no longer afford to run the ball, grind it out, and play a possession game like you may have planned.
For a team with a good ground game, and a poor passing game... this is a death knell.
You can't imagine my glee when a poor passing team like Nebraska (yea... I know... college ball... but same concept) is forced into that situation.
And of course... the other teams D... knowing the situation that you are in... is going to play accordingly.
I could argue a bad D would inflate pasing statistics. When the coach knows he is gonna give up a lot a points, you need to try and score more.Peyton Manning set the TD record and that Colts D was very bad that year. The year Marino set it, i am pretty sure the Dolphins had a bad D also (I did not look this up or remember).
I can tell you for a fact most teams we played, the Linebackers immediately dropped back in coverage or blitzed the hell out of us without any care for stopping the run. If we did get a few good runs in they pretty much ignored it and kept after the pass. Pissed me off a lot actually. Like i said, Reid is stuborn to a fault sometimes, thats why he gave up the playcalling. Also, playaction used to be pretty much useless for us, not so much for Manning when Barber was getting over 300 carries a year for 5 yards a pop.Quote:
I disagree.
Philly very well may have CHOSEN to ignore the run... but the other team still had to honour it.
There's a HUGE difference between being forced to pass every play (and the other team knowing it) and CHOOSING to pass every play. Now I'm sure that the other team were aware of Philly's tendancies... but in a game that Philly wasn't behind huge... and in fact a lot of the time was leading... they still would have to honour the run.
I will post a list when i am not at work...I saw a pretty long one somewhere, with a lot of backs on it. (EDIT) Actually i though of one already, Willis Mcgahee. He screwed his knee up in the last game of his 2003 season in college, and by week 6 in 2004 with the Bills he was playing. He had like 1100 yards in 11 games with 13 TD's. I know there are a bunch more...these injuries and knee surgury are so common now...routine is not the right word, but its not far from the truth.Quote:
Almost entirely in their second year back after the injury.
I personally can't think of any one player that blew out a knee that ended their season as was anywhere near their former self the very next season.
As in not even one.
This will be a very much different year for McNabb.
Another one that is a QB is Carson Palmer...I know he was never mobile anyway, but he still came right back and played the next year and had a pretty good year.
He does make a lot of plays with his legs..as far as passing and running he is the best IMO. But I think you are basing almost your whole imagine of his game on what you see on ESPN's top 10 plays. Since around 2004 he has mastered the WCO, and yes it has been said it takes about 5 years to completely master the system the Eagles use. He goes through his progressions very quickly, and generally makes the right throw. If a play is not there, he used to take off, but the last few years, he dumps it off to a back and lets them work, just as the WCO is supposed to work. His one flaw is he does throw short easy passes too hard once in a while, or in the dirt. I can live with the occasional mcnabb wormburner over INTS though. A QB that cannot read a defense could never have as few INTS in as many pass attempts as he does. Its just not possible.Quote:
He also makes a lot of HUGE plays based off his legs.
From simple things like buying himself time scrambling out of the pocket, to scambling out of the pocket which in turn pressures the defense to not only cover their men... but to come up and honour his running ability.
How many times have you seen him flip a pass out to a guy who is open because the defence came up to get him? I have seen more than I care to remember (I cheer for Washington in the NFC).
For a largepart... kiss that ability goodbye for this year.
He will be forced to make the reads this year. I have never really been sold on his ability to have to rely on that... and he will be relying on it this year. I think that a VERY large number of his plays have resulted from his legs in one way or another.
I think that if McNabb becomes Bernie Kosar (in running ability), Philly's passing game is done.
And I have seen him play when he was FAR LESS mobile than Bernie Kosar. In 2002 he was hit and injured on the 3rd play of the game. He left and came right back. Played almost the whole rest of the game, completing 20 of 25 passes and had 4 TD passes. He was as immobile as you can be, often falling after throwing passes or handing the ball off. It turned out his ankle was broken and he played the whole game on it.
.Quote:
Yes.
That is one VERY good things about your team... it has managed to reload maybe better than any other team that I have seen in the modern era.
But I think that time will catch up with it at some point. The law of averages cannot be denied forever... and it's already been too long for Philly
New England is better, they have the rings to prove it. ;)
Our "secret" is how well we milk the late rounds and UDF's. Also, the almost cruel way we just let older players go. Not too many guys we have cut or not resigned have went on to have a ton of success, Burgess is the one that comes to mind. We also do a great job of drafting 2-3 years in advance.
I am not bashing manning because he is a Giant or because he is Peytons brother. I just did not think he would be a good NFL QB coming out of college, and still don't. I am an Eagles fan and of course I root against the Giants, but i have liked and have had respect for quite a few of there players. Barber was awesome, very underrated, Diehl is very good, Osi is also a player.
The same with Roy Williams, I obviously hate Dallas being an Eagles fan, but thats not why I think he is not that good. I don't really think a one dimensional safety is very valuable. In todays NFL they exploit you so easily if you have a glaring weakness, and he gets turned around so easy on coverage its almost funny...he really does look lost a lot fo the time.
You're free to THINK that all you want, but anyone who watches the games KNOWS he is embarrassing in coverage. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Spank_Me_Hard
Ok heres a few i found. McAllister had the injury in 2005...had 245 carries for over 1,000 yards in 2006.
Javon Walker also had it in 2005, had 69 catches for 1,000 yards last year.
Jerry Rice tore both his ACL and MCL in 1997. He did come back to early, THE SAME SEASON!!! he re-injured himself, but still made it back for 1998. That year he had 82 catches for 1,157 yards and 9 touchowns.
Edge had it too....and he played the next year, but it was for the cards...so of course his numbers went down. But he still had well over 300 carries for more than a 1000 yards. Yard per carry went down, but that was more the line than his injury i would bet.
There are a lot more...more than even i realized. I am not gonna post them all...but the above is a fair sample. Most of them where much more serious than Mcnabbs, tearing multiple ligaments. Mcnabb simply had a partial tear of the ACL. I am not downplaying it and it is serious, but all indications are that he is back.He participated in mini camps ahead of schedule, and is now doing his yearly workouts with other Eagle players in Arizona the same as every other year. To think he will have a horrible season is really not logical, he is recovered and in his professional prime, with the best offense around him he has had.
The Giants do have a good set of recievers (RBs, TEs, and WRs). But I don't think that Manning is that bad.Quote:
And the Giants are a poor passing team....not because of there good recievers, great tight end, or the very good pass catching back they had, but because of the poor QB they have.
Their O-line also doesn't really impress me much. Not nearly as bad as the Raiders, but porous when up against a decent rush. That factors in the equation.
You could... and to a degree you have some point. But in the big picture, it hurts statistics far more than it helps... lot's of INTs will be thrown. A QB could end up with 300 passing yards, but like 4 INTs to 2 TDs. That is pretty typical in that situation.Quote:
I could argue a bad D would inflate pasing statistics.
You are right with Manning and Marino (BTW... Marino's defence then was AWFUL!). But for every Marino or Manning, there is 10 other QBs who's stats suffer more than they gain.Quote:
Peyton Manning set the TD record and that Colts D was very bad that year. The year Marino set it, i am pretty sure the Dolphins had a bad D also (I did not look this up or remember).
A bad arguement to try to make I think.
Most of the time, the blitz works not only against the pass... but equally well against the run.Quote:
I can tell you for a fact most teams we played, the Linebackers immediately dropped back in coverage or blitzed the hell out of us without any care for stopping the run.
LBs dropping back I agree with you.
McGahee had a pretty decent year all things considering... but not dominant.Quote:
Actually i though of one already, Willis Mcgahee. He screwed his knee up in the last game of his 2003 season in college, and by week 6 in 2004 with the Bills he was playing. He had like 1100 yards in 11 games with 13 TD's.
Also... there was no "uninjured" benchmark for his NFL performance to measure him against.
He did about as good as anyone that I've ever seen after that injury. He represents near the top of performances after knee reconstruction. It's all downhill from there basically.
Palmer is a poor comparison. He doesn't rely on his legs so much.Quote:
Another one that is a QB is Carson Palmer...I know he was never mobile anyway, but he still came right back and played the next year and had a pretty good year.
Not at all.Quote:
He does make a lot of plays with his legs..as far as passing and running he is the best IMO. But I think you are basing almost your whole imagine of his game on what you see on ESPN's top 10 plays.
I actually get to see quite a bit of Philly games... mostly because of the fact that they are one of the better teams right now that seem to get more TV coverage that others.
And McNabb strikes me about as far away from a "pocket passer" as I can think of. Even with a very good line protecting him.
Take away his mobility, and he will suffer. I think that we can both agree with that. The difference in opinion between you and me seems to be how much he will suffer from greatly reduced mobility. I think greatly.
LOL!Quote:
I can live with the occasional mcnabb wormburner over INTS though.
"Wormburner"... never heard that one... I love it!
I'm not saying that he is a bad QB... I'd love to have him on my team (I was hoping that Culpepper would end up being the same). I just think that he's a little overrated, and also that a big part of his game is helped because of his scrambling.Quote:
A QB that cannot read a defense could never have as few INTS in as many pass attempts as he does. Its just not possible.
LOL! Is that even possible?Quote:
And I have seen him play when he was FAR LESS mobile than Bernie Kosar.
Against Arizona? Do we really need to say any more than that?Quote:
In 2002 he was hit and injured on the 3rd play of the game. He left and came right back. Played almost the whole rest of the game, completing 20 of 25 passes and had 4 TD passes. He was as immobile as you can be, often falling after throwing passes or handing the ball off. It turned out his ankle was broken and he played the whole game on it.
I could have sat in the pocket against Arizona's rush and picked apart their defence.
You are right... NE are MASTERS with their personel.Quote:
New England is better, they have the rings to prove it.
I love the way that they run their team... not really any superstars (even Brady doesn't gave the "glamour" factor that Manning has) just a good solid football team... right down to their second and third string players.
Who else put's a WR in as a DB because of injuries and gets away with it?
Thus far... Manning's stats look decent. A decent career thus far for any third year QB. I too was sceptical about Manning. I was sceptical about him riding the coat tails of his brother. I was sceptical about his brother riding the coat tails of his dad (I actually thought that Ryan Leaf would have been the preferable QB... LOL! Can you believe that?!?).Quote:
I am not bashing manning because he is a Giant or because he is Peytons brother. I just did not think he would be a good NFL QB coming out of college, and still don't.
NY people are notoriously hard on their players... if their team doesn't win a championship, they are judged as failures. I could care less if the average NYer has the patience of a two year old with their players.
If Mannings numbers keep on going up... if even just by a single point in the QB rating system... I think that's a good thing. His QB rating isn't that bad right now. And if it's done without Barber... it will even be that much more impressive.
We'll see. That's why they actually have to play the games first! :D
I don't think that a safety who can't play the pass can't exist in the NFL... period.Quote:
The same with Roy Williams, I obviously hate Dallas being an Eagles fan, but thats not why I think he is not that good. I don't really think a one dimensional safety is very valuable. In todays NFL they exploit you so easily if you have a glaring weakness, and he gets turned around so easy on coverage its almost funny...he really does look lost a lot fo the time.
First and foremost... they are as their name implies... a SAFETY. They are the last man back... first and foremost. Them supporting the run is just an added bonus if they can do that. But they are a DB... their job consists of MOSTLY working against the pass.
Otherwise, he'd be playing much more of a run support position... maybe even Willy backer (Mike was my overexaggeration of a run stopping defender).
Williams has made three Pro Bowls in his 6 year career. His pass D has to factor into that in SOME capacity.
I don't think that his man to man coverage is that great... in fact I think that it sucks (from what I've seen when he is isolated on a back or reciever). But put him in a zone, let him play the ball like a center fielder... and he'll take away a wide area, get some picks, and unleash some hellacious hits.
(he also appears to be pretty proficient at stripping the ball from the carrier)
BARELY over 1,000. Another example like McGahee... a very good year for someone recovering from knee reconstruction. Again... probably near the top of the list.Quote:
McAllister had the injury in 2005...had 245 carries for over 1,000 yards in 2006.
And looking at his career stats... not quite as dominant as he had been in the past.
If he was the featured back (i.e. didn't have to split playing time with Reggie Bush), I think that he'd have even a better year this year.
Again... a good year... but not nearly as dominant as he had been in the past. And again... just over 1,000 yards.Quote:
Javon Walker also had it in 2005, had 69 catches for 1,000 yards last year.
Dude... you're talking about the greatest reciever ever here.Quote:
Jerry Rice tore both his ACL and MCL in 1997. He did come back to early, THE SAME SEASON!!! he re-injured himself, but still made it back for 1998. That year he had 82 catches for 1,157 yards and 9 touchowns.
And pervious to the injury... look at his stats:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/126/career
His fewest receptions since 1991. His fewest yards since 1987.
A good year for the best reciever ever in the game coming back... but still not up to the level that he was playing at right before the injury.
Now Edge is more typical of what you see after an injury like this. His numbers are WAY down:Quote:
Edge had it too....and he played the next year, but it was for the cards...so of course his numbers went down. But he still had well over 300 carries for more than a 1000 yards. Yard per carry went down, but that was more the line than his injury i would bet.
http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/133320
His yard per carry are down 0.8 yards per rush... and he ran for less than 1,000 his first year back from injury.
And no... I don't think that it was because of his line. The subsequent years, he gets back to more normal "Edge" numbers.
Thank you for highlighting my point.
For every Jerry Rice, Deuce McAllister, or McGahee, you have 10 guys who suffer like Edge did.
I think that McNabb will be back being a mad scrambler... it just won't be this year.
When they fixed it... did they manage to "patch it up" somehow (I'm not familiar with this procedure as I fully tore mine), or did they fully tear it and then reconstruct it (in my case, they used a piece of my hamstring as replacement tissue... in other cases they use the ligament from a cadaveur)?Quote:
There are a lot more...more than even i realized. I am not gonna post them all...but the above is a fair sample. Most of them where much more serious than Mcnabbs, tearing multiple ligaments. Mcnabb simply had a partial tear of the ACL.
Or did they simply leave it as partially tore, and just hope for the best?
Each way has it's own benefits and drawbacks.
Can't wait to find out. But my money is on his lack of mobility is going to impact his game greatly.Quote:
To think he will have a horrible season is really not logical, he is recovered and in his professional prime, with the best offense around him he has had.