The Official NFL Thread

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Originally Posted by spamjedi

yea, thats what I said

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Oh I know. I was basically just agreeing with you. :D

I think I've mentioned before that I would probably never take an RB in the first round if I was in charge (barring a versatile player in the Reggie Bush mold, who is practically as much of a receiver as he is an RB). I just think that you can make a bad RB look good a lot easier than you can almost any other position.

Second on the list of positions I would probably never take in the first, though, is probably QB. Too much risk for that much money imo, and there is still plenty of great talent after the first.

QB is arguably the most important position on offense, and a good one can last you a long time. You have to go first round if you need a good qb and have the opp to get them.

yea but as monroeski said it is such a risk, see Carr and Harrington for example. But then you get guys like Manning(s), Elway, and others that work out.

Tough stuff, being wrong sets your team back years.

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Originally Posted by PriMaTe

You have to go first round if you need a good qb and have the opp to get them.

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Tell that to Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Matt Hasselbeck, Tony Romo, and Jeff Garcia. All playoff QBs, all of them are strong drivers of the offense (unlike, say, Roethlisberger), and only one of them went before the 6th round. Two of those guys were undrafted. Only one does not have multiple pro bowl years, and that's because he's only been a starter for one year.

Think about it - barring some strange unforeseen circumstance, you will most likely be able to get the third best QB in the entire draft in the 2nd round. Drew Stanton was considered a first round lock and tied with Brady Quinn for best QB in the entire class before the season.

I just personally think the trade value of a pick that gets you one of the top QBs, on average, works out to be more advantageous than taking the actual QB themselves. Just my opinion, I know many (most?) would disagree with me.

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Originally Posted by spamjedi

yea but as monroeski said it is such a risk, see Carr and Harrington for example. But then you get guys like Manning(s), Elway, and others that work out.

Tough stuff, being wrong sets your team back years.

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Well...one Manning worked out.

You can't post up diamonds in the rough like it's a common occurance. Sure there are 1st round busts at qb but there are busts at all positions in the 1st round, look at the lions. QB is one of the hardest positions to draft for and the 1st round gives you the best odds for a good qb(as long as they are 1st round material). Look at peyton, roethlesberger, mcnabb, all first rounders. Don't go inducting romo into the HOF yet either, he hasn't played a full season yet and he lost the playoffs for the cowboys.

I am a beleiver in drafting O-linemen early and often. My team (eagles) had been drafting linemen by the tons (literally) for the last 5-6 years, and last year it was the biggest strength of our team. All five starters are at least solid, with Shawn Andrews an all pro in only his second year (last whole first year with a broken leg), and 2 former probowl tackles (Thomas and Runyan) who are still very good. And in a year or 2 when they are done, we have 2 young guys (Justice and Jean-Gilles) who look to be just as good, if not better.
On an unrelated to the draft note...if Mcnabb comes back to be close to his old self, and we commit to the run like we did when he went down, the Eagles are very quietly stacked this year. Adding Spikes should help our run defense, which is the reason we got knocked out of the playoffs. I really would love to get a run stuffing tackle, but our defense just seems to like the smaller, quick tackles to try and get penetration.

I also am a believer if you have a bad team, trading down for more picks, and trading players for picks, either this years or next, is a good idea. Bad teams usually need players, and almost always have no depth. One player is not going to ever make a bad team good.

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Originally Posted by PriMaTe

You can't post up diamonds in the rough like it's a common occurance. Sure there are 1st round busts at qb but there are busts at all positions in the 1st round, look at the lions. QB is one of the hardest positions to draft for and the 1st round gives you the best odds for a good qb(as long as they are 1st round material). Look at peyton, roethlesberger, mcnabb, all first rounders. Don't go inducting romo into the HOF yet either, he hasn't played a full season yet and he lost the playoffs for the cowboys.

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Id hardly consider Roethlesberger first round material.

Actually, most of the first rounders from that draft are pretty...umm....ok so far. Roethleserger, Manning, Losman...none have been world beaters. Only Rivers has played well...and only for a season, so who knows.

BTW Romo has been figured out, he has happy feet, does not really go though his progressions, and has a funky, too low sidearm delivery. Also his deep ball does not have enough air under it. Unless he fixes his mechanics he will be average at best. His numbers went way down after his good start and I think its due to teams having some film on him and knowing how to prepare and attack his weaknesses.

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Originally Posted by PriMaTe

You can't post up diamonds in the rough like it's a common occurance.

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In my defense, it wasn't like I just picked and chose players through the last decade or something. I just went straight to the playoffs of this year. Both of the QBs in the Super Bowl this year WERE top 10 picks, after all, I just conveniently ignored that. :D

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Originally Posted by PriMaTe

Sure there are 1st round busts at qb but there are busts at all positions in the 1st round, look at the lions.

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Of course there are. I just like my chances enough with later rounds to take other positions in the first. In the same way that a quarterback is very important to an offense so a lot of teams take them early, a good QB can also drop pretty quickly just due to teams not needing a QB; you only really play one per season, barring injuries. Look at Aaron Rodgers a few years ago - Top 10 talent, but nobody needed a QB, so he dropped WAY down. Leinart was a #1 pick a year before he came out, but when he was in the draft he dropped 9 slots due to team needs. Brady Quinn could potentially do the same thing this year.

You pretty much play at LEAST two of every other position at some point in the game (kickers/punters excluded), and most times more than one on any play, so good players at other positions don't tend to drop as much from what I've seen. You can always use two of other positions. If you take a QB in the first round, that is basically guaranteeing your current starter that his days are numbered. You don't have running back controversies or left tackle controversies, you have quarterback controversies.

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Originally Posted by md1198p

I am a beleiver in drafting O-linemen early and often.

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Originally Posted by rabidmoose171

Id hardly consider Roethlesberger first round material.

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I agree with both of these completely, except with Roethlisberger it is more hindsight. I thought he was good coming out of college, late first round maybe second round, but now I find him terribly overrated.

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Originally Posted by md1198p

I am a beleiver in drafting O-linemen early and often.

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Yep. because these days, rushing DE's are like super-athlete/ maniacs who will destroy your QB. Teams have to have monster tackles on hand to deal. You get guys like Ogden, Pace, Jones etc shielding the blindside, and the QB can breathe a little easier and stay confident.

Plus, the right guards will automatically make the running game better. The big uglies are all-important.

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Originally Posted by r'aggro

Yep. because these days, rushing DE's are like super-athlete/ maniacs who will destroy your QB. Teams have to have monster tackles on hand to deal. You get guys like Ogden, Pace, Jones etc shielding the blindside, and the QB can breathe a little easier and stay confident.

Plus, the right guards will automatically make the running game better. The big uglies are all-important.

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Funny that you should mention Ogden, Pace, and Jones; all three were taken in the first round in two back to back years ('96 and '97), and they made up a pretty sick string of OTs (including Kyle Turley, Tony Boselli, and a few others I can't think of right now) taken in the first round that is probably the main factor behind the modern notion that the O-Line is one of the safest positions to draft in the first round.

You also need depth in these positions. Almost every team every year has a lineman or 2 miss at least a few games, its very easy to twist an ankle or something while blocking. Having depth at O-line is critical. How many times to you see a bad exchange between a back up center and QB, or see a lineman come in and right away give up a sack.

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Originally Posted by monroeski

Funny that you should mention Ogden, Pace, and Jones; all three were taken in the first round in two back to back years ('96 and '97), and they made up a pretty sick string of OTs (including Kyle Turley, Tony Boselli, and a few others I can't think of right now) taken in the first round that is probably the main factor behind the modern notion that the O-Line is one of the safest positions to draft in the first round.

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Heck, Boselli was J-ville's first ever pick as an expansion team, and everyone knew it was a great idea. You anchor teams with these guys.