The Official NFL Thread

Printable View

Show 25 post(s) from this thread on one page

06-08-2007, 11:16 AM
vairox

Roy Williams and Calvin Johnson are better than Moss at the present time, yes moss has been on the upswing as of late (very late as in this week) but I would have to see him play in games to see if he truely is, as he has said, back to his deep threat one handed grabbing afro sporting self...till then I'm gonna say those 2 detroit receivers are better at this point - defenses are going to have hell trying to cover both guys
06-08-2007, 01:15 PM
spamjedi

Quote:

Originally Posted by vairox

Roy Williams and Calvin Johnson are better than Moss at the present time, yes moss has been on the upswing as of late (very late as in this week) but I would have to see him play in games to see if he truely is, as he has said, back to his deep threat one handed grabbing afro sporting self...till then I'm gonna say those 2 detroit receivers are better at this point - defenses are going to have hell trying to cover both guys

I hope so!!! Though I have said that before for various combinations of Charles Rogers, Roy Williams, and Mike Williams. :p
06-08-2007, 02:51 PM
monroeski

Quote:

Originally Posted by vairox

Roy Williams and Calvin Johnson are better than Moss at the present time, yes moss has been on the upswing as of late (very late as in this week) but I would have to see him play in games to see if he truely is, as he has said, back to his deep threat one handed grabbing afro sporting self...till then I'm gonna say those 2 detroit receivers are better at this point - defenses are going to have hell trying to cover both guys

You can argue that they're better at this point, but why? When you're talking about Culpepper and say the Lions have 2 guys better than Moss, it is assumed that you're talking about Moss when Culpepper played with him, back in his glory days. The comparison doesn't really mean anything otherwise, especially since Culpepper and Moss haven't played together in what, 2 or 3 years now?
06-08-2007, 03:46 PM
vairox

I'm saying those 2 guys are better targets, can seperate better and are faster....I don't buy 30 year old moss running a 4.2 40 yard dash. Calvin Johnson is no mike williams, he is the real deal and I see him producing immediately.
06-08-2007, 04:13 PM
Mindwarper

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spank_Me_Hard

Mobility is a big part of Culpepper's game. And with a torn ACL, most players are not the same player that they were for at least 2 seasons. My understanding is that Culpepper had his ACL, and two other ligaments torn (i.e. even more problematic than just rehabbing the ACL).

I wouldn't mind seeing Miami asking Culpepper to take a pay cut in the meantime though... I think that'd be fair.

I'd be happy if Miami played Green for a year or two until Culpepper came up to speed. I think that Culpepper could be the long term solution at QB.

I don't think Culpepper will be a starter again. He hasn't looked good for 3 or 4 years. He acts as his own agent and that makes it harder. He deals with the club on a player and professional agent level. It is hard to seperate. He should focus on playing and let an agent do his job, find the right fit for the right money. I doubt he will be a starter again and think he is on his way out. Or at least of the nfl. He might be a good cfl or arena player.
06-08-2007, 04:44 PM
spamjedi

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mindwarper

I don't think Culpepper will be a starter again. He hasn't looked good for 3 or 4 years. He acts as his own agent and that makes it harder. He deals with the club on a player and professional agent level. It is hard to seperate. He should focus on playing and let an agent do his job, find the right fit for the right money. I doubt he will be a starter again and think he is on his way out. Or at least of the nfl. He might be a good cfl or arena player.

I agree. I really think Culpepper is done. However, I can't see him ever going to the cfl or arena league. I gotta think he would retire before doing that.
06-08-2007, 05:30 PM
Spank_Me_Hard

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mindwarper

I don't think Culpepper will be a starter again. He hasn't looked good for 3 or 4 years. He acts as his own agent and that makes it harder. He deals with the club on a player and professional agent level. It is hard to seperate. He should focus on playing and let an agent do his job, find the right fit for the right money. I doubt he will be a starter again and think he is on his way out. Or at least of the nfl. He might be a good cfl or arena player.

3 seasons ago.

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/133263

Last year he was rushed into action before he was ready. Only played 4 games.

The year before was the year that he was injured. Only played half the season... stats were bad. His first year without Moss I think.

The season before, 39 TDs and 11 INTs. 69% of passes completed for a QB rating of 110.

Phenomenal season.

It looks like he is being a baby with the Phins. The Phins gave up a 2nd rounder to get him, and he's demanding to be released. The Phins want to trade him and recoup SOMETHING for their troubles. But he says that he'll nix any trade.

This irritates me to no end.

He is property of the Phins at this point. How can he have ANY say in what they do with him?

If he carries this on, I'll lose any respect that I had for him.
06-08-2007, 05:33 PM
WolfNoob

Quote:

Originally Posted by spamjedi

I agree. I really think Culpepper is done. However, I can't see him ever going to the cfl or arena league. I gotta think he would retire before doing that.

Culpepper will be cut and signed 4 times before he is out of the NFL. Teams are always desperate for a QB. Look at what Randall Cunningham did after taking a year or 2 off. I think he was the league MVP for Minnesota. Teams will continue to take a chance on him regaining his old form.
06-08-2007, 06:16 PM
monroeski

Quote:

Originally Posted by vairox

I'm saying those 2 guys are better targets, can seperate better and are faster....I don't buy 30 year old moss running a 4.2 40 yard dash. Calvin Johnson is no mike williams, he is the real deal and I see him producing immediately.

I totally agree that I would rather have them than Moss right now; I just don't really see any connection between present day Culpepper and present day Moss; haven't played together for a while, and basically zero chance that they will play together again. I think a better comparison would be between Detroit's receivers today versus Moss when he and Culpepper were both with the Vikings.
06-08-2007, 06:18 PM
monroeski

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spank_Me_Hard

He is property of the Phins at this point. How can he have ANY say in what they do with him?

No trade clause maybe? Not sure if he has one. That, or he could just let all the other teams know that he'll raise hell, retire, generally be a bad teammate, etc. if a trade is made to a team that he doesn't want to join.
06-08-2007, 07:08 PM
Spank_Me_Hard

Quote:

Originally Posted by WolfNoob

I think he was the league MVP for Minnesota. Teams will continue to take a chance on him regaining his old form.

I think with Robert Smith at RB, with a good O-Line, and with Moss/Carter/Reed at the time.

That would have made Joey Harrington look good!

:eek:
06-09-2007, 05:32 PM
Snakespy

Quote:

Originally Posted by rabidmoose171

Jay Feidler actually had a very high win percentage when he was on the dolphins. I think i remember seeing something on ESPN like 3 years ago saying he had the highest winning percentage out of all winning QB's, behind Kurt Warner.

So did Jake Plummer for a few years.
06-09-2007, 09:26 PM
fastitocalon

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slu...v=ap&type=lgns

Chad Wins by a mile lol. This guy is too much.
06-11-2007, 01:03 AM
md1198p

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spank_Me_Hard

I think with Robert Smith at RB, with a good O-Line, and with Moss/Carter/Reed at the time.

That would have made Joey Harrington look good!

:eek:

How could you put Harrington in the same thought as Cunningham. Cunningham may have had the best deep ball in the history of football. No one threw a pass as far and as high as him, it just dropped straight down in the recievers hands. If he had any help on offense in Philly, with him and thay defense, they would have probably won a superbowl. Buddy Ryan wasted him, most of their offensive plays only had one option to pass, then run if not open. You saw what he could do with a real NFL offense when he was with the Vikings, he was past his prime and still won a MVP. This is all IMO, but i think had he been playing for a team with some othher talent on offense, and a real NFL offensive game plan, he would be a first ballet hall of famer.
06-11-2007, 02:02 AM
Spank_Me_Hard

Quote:

How could you put Harrington in the same thought as Cunningham.

Easy! Any QB can benefit greatly by being put in the perfect situation.

The aforemention Mark Rypien:

http://www.pro-football-reference.co...s/RypiMa00.htm

SB year in 1991... 28 TDs, 11 INTs

Cunningham's best year:

http://www.pro-football-reference.co...s/CunnRa00.htm

His best year in 1998... 34 TDs, 10 INTs

Granted, Cunningham's best year was better... but you should be able to get the idea... an average QB (i.e. Rypien) can look brilliant in a good environment. And in 1998... in a perfect system with diminished physical skills... Cunningham was just that... an average QB in a great system.

Quote:

Cunningham may have had the best deep ball in the history of football.

Wow. Now THAT is a pretty bold statement!

There has been some pretty good QBs over the years... much better QBs than Cunningham ever was that come to mind.

Manning, Marino, and Elway come to mind.

Quote:

If he had any help on offense in Philly, with him and thay defense, they would have probably won a superbowl.

Well, he did have some degree of talent around him on offense... it wasn't a total wash.

Mike Quick was a good WR for a few years. Keith Jackson was one of the games best TEs. Buddy Ryan cut Cris Carter. And Keith Byars was a pass catching DEMON out of the backfield. And wasn't Ricky Waters in Philly for one year with Cunningham?

So while Philly's O did leave somwething to be desired at times... it wasn't like Cunningham never had ANY talent around him. He did have some.

And just as I think that some QBs in todays game rely too much on their legs, and not enough on reading defenses to make plays (i.e. Micheal Vick) I think that Cunningham in his prime was the same way. Keep him in the pocket, and collapse it around him while forcing him to make the right read and the game is yours.

And it's nothing more than speculation... but I think that Harrington was put in the same situation as Cunningham in 1998 in Minnesota... that Harrington looks like the second coming of Joe Montana too.

In fact... looking at Harrington's numbers and considering the team around him for his entire career... I don't think that they look that bad.

Granted they are not great... but nor are they Vinny Testaverde-ish (in Tampa Bay) either. In fact, in 2004 he had 19 TDs and 12 INTs... Any Detroit fan will tell you... those ain't Andre Ware numbers there.

Show 25 post(s) from this thread on one page