The blame of PC-pirating doesnt make any sense.

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10-10-2008, 03:36 PM
dimmy32

I agree 100 % as well. Imagine if PC gaming died, then everyone would just pirate consoles instead.
Thats what I find so short-sighted of the gaming businesses. The more they try and push PC-gaming out the door, the more pirating is gonna happen on consoles....
10-10-2008, 05:40 PM
Freddy part deux

Quote:

Originally Posted by dyne

It still fascinates me that people still claim "PC gaming is dead or dying because of pirating", yet a game from an unknown (Sins of a Solar Empire) recently sold 500k units with NO DRM or CD check. Why? because the game is good enough that people WANT to buy it.

Online play maybe.
10-10-2008, 06:10 PM
BuggyLoop

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamakazie

This is a very shaky subject, but I definitely think its worth discussing.

Software piracy has been around for as long as software has existed and while it definitely is a problem, I believe companies have begun using it as a scapegoat for poor sales numbers, ignoring many other influential factors. In the case of Spore, you had a draconian and even offensive protection system in place, with Crysis it was extremely steep system requirements. Both of these games had a very high budget that the publishers hoped to make back in sales - surprise, the game doesn't do too well and you don't want to blame this expensive copy protection scheme or that nobody wants to play your game if it doesn't look as intended or if your game is simply crap. Nope, its time to point fingers and make excuses.

So the big companies are complaining and blaming PCs, saying consoles are the answer, but even consoles aren't safe either, piracy is rampant on all systems except the PS3 currently. I'm sure its not as bad as on PC, but its not as if this is some haven from illegal activities. So why consoles? When developing for a console there is less overhead; no need to worry about different configurations, no need to implement copy protection. You know that if the game is running on one system, its going to be running exactly the same on the next system. And then there's the big factor that more people around the world game on consoles than PC, and that these console gamers are willing to spend $60 on their games instead of $50 as is the case with PC.

So I truly think that all of this talk about piracy lately is just mass-scale QQs. Valve, Stardock, Relic and several others have proven that developing for the PC is not a risky maneuver as long as your game is awesome enough for people to buy and that the budget is reasonable enough to warrant a profit. Hell, Sins of a Solar Empire probably made back its cost in profit within the first month of release (and hey, no copy protection).

So stop whining, companies. Either admit that you want to go develop for consoles because its easier and more profitable or start making games that people want to buy.

But what about games like call of duty 4? Nobody is gonna argue that the game doesnt kick ***, but the devs saw the % of pirates playing the game (online) and its not really good news for the market

Quote:

On another PC related note, we pulled some disturbing numbers this past week about the amount of PC players currently playing Multiplayer (which was fantastic). What wasn't fantastic was the percentage of those numbers who were playing on stolen copies of the game on stolen / cracked CD keys of pirated copies (and that was only people playing online).

Not sure if I can share the exact numbers or percentage of PC players with you, but I'll check and see; if I can I'll update with them. As the amount of people who pirate PC games is astounding. It blows me away at the amount of people willing to steal games (or anything) simply because it's not physical or it's on the safety of the internet to do.

http://kotaku.com/344848/piracy-make...uty-4-devs-sad

Crysis devs also said something in that vein not too long ago, they even said that crysis would be their last PC exclusive game.

So yea, pirates are killing PC gaming, it started from an amazing platform with some of the best dev support and games to a shithole when CD burners and high speed internet came to most homes.

What publisher would put marketing or even effort for a PC version of their game when its pirated so massively.

This forum is pirate heavy also, dont try to hide it, i dont think all those DS flash carts and PSP custom firmware are entirely for homebrew softwares either. But hey, im not the police, i've done my share too, but lets not be blind about the state of PC gaming.
10-10-2008, 06:32 PM
Freddy part deux

I don't know of any games that you can pirate and play online on a public server. Granted some have cracked servers but I've never been to one.
10-11-2008, 08:07 PM
Lee_T

I fully support Kama's post.

I buy my games, and yet I buy less and less PC games as time goes on. I can see thre reasons:

- Reduced interest in a perceived (by me) declining quality is one factor, (it's a very important one as far as music company are concerned too).

- mad DRM is another. I didn't buy Bioshock PC and Mass Effect PC for those very reasons (I had to settle for Bioshock 360 for the first one and be a little less a Bioware fanboy for the second), I wasn't much interested in Spore but the DRM killed any desire to buy it in the bud.

- strange new financial models, I don't like the concept of MMO subscription, the semi MMO subscription of Hellgate London was weird, and the new Starcraft 2 third of games also leaves me dumbfounded. I also don't like to buy full price for a 10 hour game which means I buy more and more second hand games.

edit added: the European price structure probably doesn't help dimishing piracy since each and every gaming product is translated $1 = 1 euro, and we also have some weird stuff like Viva Pinata Trouble in Paradise for 55 euros while it's $40 in the states.
10-11-2008, 10:57 PM
Kamakazie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee_T

Viva Pinata Trouble in Paradise for 55 euros while it's $40 in the states.

Seriously?? That means Viva Pinata TiP, is $75? Essentially double the price of the US version. That is absurd!
10-12-2008, 07:31 AM
Lee_T

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamakazie

Seriously?? That means Viva Pinata TiP, is $75? Essentially double the price of the US version. That is absurd!

Yes, that because US Microsoft tries to give the game a push, while Euro Microsoft doesn't seem to care.

Usually the "conversion" rate is 1 to 1, which would have make it a 39.99 Euro game (still around $53 though). Let's say it's to pay for the localization of the games, that's probably why you can find this 1 to 1 ratio for 360 controllers and video cards too ;) .
10-12-2008, 09:34 AM
dyne

I know Australia gets raped pretty bad for console games as well. Not sure about their PC market.
10-12-2008, 10:34 AM
richardginn

Quote:

Originally Posted by dyne

It still fascinates me that people still claim "PC gaming is dead or dying because of pirating", yet a game from an unknown (Sins of a Solar Empire) recently sold 500k units with NO DRM or CD check. Why? because the game is good enough that people WANT to buy it.

Did it make a profit though???
10-12-2008, 10:47 AM
dyne

Quote:

Originally Posted by richardginn

Did it make a profit though???

The devs are working on "micro expansions" so I would certainly hope so.
10-12-2008, 10:54 AM
Terry

Pirating existed since NES days. Thefts existed since the beginning of time in all industries.

Developers should just take it as a cost of doing business, just like:
-banks have to accept some defaults on mortgages
-hospital have to accept some non-payments
-retail stores have to accept some goods to be stolen

Those % are all accounted for into their P&L budgeting.

All the other industries have accepted that businesses does indeed work with the principle of a free market. The better your product/service is, the less your losses.

What, the gaming industry does not have to accept how the free market works?
They want to make money on crappy games?
10-12-2008, 11:26 AM
xclite

Quote:

Originally Posted by richardginn

Did it make a profit though???

I read somewhere that it had a very low production cost.
10-12-2008, 02:27 PM
taggart6

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamakazie

This is a very shaky subject, but I definitely think its worth discussing.

Software piracy has been around for as long as software has existed and while it definitely is a problem, I believe companies have begun using it as a scapegoat for poor sales numbers, ignoring many other influential factors. In the case of Spore, you had a draconian and even offensive protection system in place, with Crysis it was extremely steep system requirements. Both of these games had a very high budget that the publishers hoped to make back in sales - surprise, the game doesn't do too well and you don't want to blame this expensive copy protection scheme or that nobody wants to play your game if it doesn't look as intended or if your game is simply crap. Nope, its time to point fingers and make excuses.

So the big companies are complaining and blaming PCs, saying consoles are the answer, but even consoles aren't safe either, piracy is rampant on all systems except the PS3 currently. I'm sure its not as bad as on PC, but its not as if this is some haven from illegal activities. So why consoles? When developing for a console there is less overhead; no need to worry about different configurations, no need to implement copy protection. You know that if the game is running on one system, its going to be running exactly the same on the next system. And then there's the big factor that more people around the world game on consoles than PC, and that these console gamers are willing to spend $60 on their games instead of $50 as is the case with PC.

So I truly think that all of this talk about piracy lately is just mass-scale QQs. Valve, Stardock, Relic and several others have proven that developing for the PC is not a risky maneuver as long as your game is awesome enough for people to buy and that the budget is reasonable enough to warrant a profit. Hell, Sins of a Solar Empire probably made back its cost in profit within the first month of release (and hey, no copy protection).

So stop whining, companies. Either admit that you want to go develop for consoles because its easier and more profitable or start making games that people want to buy.

QFT. I'd even go as far to see that modding on consoles is becoming even more rampent and easier then PCs. We've already seen this on the 360, wii, DS, Xbox and PS2.
10-13-2008, 03:41 AM
capt.sekaran

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/5...tyoutp2.th.jpg

Also,

STEEL BE WITH YOU
10-13-2008, 09:22 AM
mr_oh_so_ice

I remember when a guy in my high school was the first one to get the original Sony Playstation. Within a few months he had the thing modded and was playing import and CD-R burned games like anything. News spread around, and pretty much everyone I knew had a modded PS1. The same thing happened with the original Xbox too.

But anyways I myself am a PC gamer, but I have shifted some of my time to consoles now. Only because its fun to chill out on the couch and play on a big screen. The thing is that pirates always pirate games. Always have, always will. They will never buy games, so in essence its not really a lost sale. But I can see how it frustrate developers.

One thing lately though is how CliffyB keeps running his mouth at how great the 360 is, and how he is happy that he won't be releasing Gears 2 on PC. Well fine then, I mean I have no problem with you choosing not to pursue a PC version for your product. But blasting us and calling us pirates because we know how to build a PC is a slap in the face. Also, PC gamers are what made him today, if it wasn't for the success of the Unreal series on the PC, he would still be developing the next version of Jazz Jackrabbit or Jill of the Jungle.

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