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I got an HP 48G in 1993, and I have been in love with it ever since. If I ever lost that calculator... I don't know what I'd do!!! https://www.sharkyforums.com/images/.../2005/06/5.gif
RPN is the way to go...
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--Klashe
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[This message has been edited by Klashe (edited July 27, 2001).]
Get yourself an 89. I have one and it is the best calc I've ever used. It has worked nicely for me from Alg 1 all the way up to AP Calc. It is definately worth the extra money. It has some impressive games too (some of which I've programmed myself).
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I have an 89 and love it, have gone through 2 years of college and haven't ran into the problem of not being able to use the calculator in classes yet. The only times i wasn't able to use it were in tests that no calculators whatsoever were allowed.
However some classes didn't allow the 92 because it had a keyboard, don't ask me why as I don't know.
I put in another vote for the HP 48G.
I consider TI's the Mac's of calculators
Easy to use for the average user.
HP's are the workstations of calcs.
You'll love the reverse polish system once you get used to it. AWESOME for finance classes. I was the only one with a HP in both of my finance classes. Not a single person ever beat me when taking test. Most test I finished in less than 30 mins.
Incase you haven't used a HP. To add 2+2, you would do this
2
Enter
2
+
It will ruin you from every using a regular calc, but once you have the 48G, you'll never need another calculaltor ever.
Besides you can brag to your friends that your calc has a built in equation to calculate the escape velocity from a gravatational field.
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He who joyfully marches in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice.
-Albert Einstein
Assuming that professors at other schools are anything like those at UCLA, then make sure to consider that
1: If you aren't a math major, the amount and complexity of math you'll be doing will probably be pretty limited. After two years of college so far as a physiological sciences major, there has never been a time when my TI-86 hasn't been more than sufficient, and few times when I really needed anything more than a simple scientific calculator.
2: All my math and physics professors and two of my chem professors (6 out of 7) did not allow calculators of any sort on quizzes/test/finals. Your fancy calculator may make homework problems a cinch, but it won't teach you the concepts, and if you don't know those, then you're SOL if you ever need to work a problem without it. Professors know it, too.
Unless you really really think you need a great fancypants calculator, just get something like the 86 and save your money for something more enjoyable.
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"You have just destroyed one model XQJ-37 nuclear powered pansexual roto-plooker....and you're gonna have to pay for it." -- Frank Zappa
Irresponsible comments like that really annoy me. This guy nkeezer is missing the basic reason for even having a good tool like the TI-89 (or TI-92 Plus) calculator. The reason that math educators are recommending these machines in all levels of math education from grade-school through college, and the reason that so many learning institutions are increasingly adopting them, are extremely important and valid ones.Quote:
Originally posted by nkeezer:
If you aren't a math major, the amount and complexity of math you'll be doing will probably be pretty limited...
Your fancy calculator may make homework problems a cinch, but it won't teach you the concepts, and if you don't know those, then you're SOL if you ever need to work a problem without it. Professors know it, too...
Unless you really really think you need a great fancypants calculator, just get something like the 86...
It's the quality of the learning experience that matters, and not simply the raw quantity or subjective complexity.
The whole point of having a menu-driven user interface and a CAS (computer-algebra system) onboard a calculator is that it frees up the student to focus more strongly on the concepts - and less so on some of the tedious computational aspects that can tend to distract a learner from those underlying concepts.
Nobody ever claims that a calculator can singlehandedly teach or force a student to learn... the point is that it can be an extremely effective learning tool to assist in the learning process.
Further, try to invent a realistic example in a real-life scenario when a reasonably detailed mathematical problem in any of the sciences won't be handled by the professional using some kind of software. Fact is, in all but the most simple cases you're SOL without computational assistance no matter how you slice it. [Except for possibly in physiological science? I don't know enough about that field to say for certain... but neither would a student only two core-level years into an academic program]
Used to be that some more conservative-minded educators argued against ever allowing even the basic scientific calculators in the classroom, because students would no longer need to look-up trigonometric, logarithmic, square-root, etc. values with the tables in the back of the old math books. They warned everybody that it would cause students to no longer learn the concepts of those mathematical functions if they didn't have to look all those values up in those long tables. Worst of all they said: What in the world would a student ever do, if they needed something like a natural logarithm value for instance, and their calculator wasn't available?
Edit: Nowadays however, I bet you would be very hard-pressed to even find a logarithm table anymore!
It should be quite clear that nkeezer does not speak for any professors whatsoever (believe me), and should not try to take the tone of an educator in this thread.
[This message has been edited by al bundy (edited July 28, 2001).]
Al:
I never claimed to be an educator, nor did I take the tone of one. I'm offering my advice, based on my experiences, which, BTW, seem to be pretty similar to those of Mofo.
Since I'm pressed for time, I'll keep it short. Remember those commercials from a few months back for some tech firm about not always needing to use the power you have (things like using a SWAT team to get into your house if you forgot your keys)? That's the point I was making to Mofo. As a biology major, he probably won't be doing much math to begin with, and that math isn't likely to require much more than a scientific calculator, and a great deal of the time he may not even be allowed to use a calculator. So now why should he spend $150 on a calculator, when one that costs $75 will do? Because he can? Or just in case?
Incidentally, your point about advanced calculators freeing people up to learn is flawed at best: see the reactions on peoples' faces when they're told they aren't allowed to use one on their midterms -- they're shocked and scared not because they'll have to multiply 55 x 13 on paper, but because they have no clue what they're supposed to do to solve a problem. Yes, I do realize that in almost any real-life situation, you will be allowed to use a calculator, computer, notes, etc. etc. But this is not real life, this is school.
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"You have just destroyed one model XQJ-37 nuclear powered pansexual roto-plooker....and you're gonna have to pay for it." -- Frank Zappa
well I would check to make sure what the college rules are for the caculators you are going to buy.
You would not want to buy a caculator and then find out you can't use if the test.
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Another absolutely false statement. We have literally volumes of current research data in the mathematical education field showing that current CAS calculator technology accomplishes precisely what you are saying it doesn't do: It frees up the learner, whether in grade/junior high/high school/college, to focus more on the concepts involved - and less on some of the otherwise distracting and tedious computational details. Since you say you attend university, enter your university library and pick up a current issue of virtually any reputable mathematics education journal and you will see this for yourself.Quote:
Originally posted by nkeezer:
...your point about advanced calculators freeing people up to learn is flawed at best: see the reactions on peoples' faces when they're told they aren't allowed to use one on their midterms -- they're shocked and scared not because they'll have to multiply 55 x 13 on paper, but because they have no clue what they're supposed to do to solve a problem.
If a student has no idea of how to solve a problem on an exam, it isn't because of any calculator they were using to study! It's because they didn't study well - or perhaps not at all. Although some students are good at making excuses, the truth is there's no excuse for a student being in that position - and blaming a calculator (of any type) for such an outcome is simply ridiculous. Your professors do know this.
Further, a professor would never disallow a calculator on a test unless the pure computation involved is extremely simple. In fact, the only reason this is ever done at all is so that an instructor may better measure the depth of a student's conceptual understanding of the specific topic, rather than their algebra skills - and this is exactly what these newer calculators aid and assist the student in developing. Again, if a student cannot perform any rather simple mathematical details involved, it's clearly not the fault of any calculator... it's the fault of their previous educators, and perhaps the motivation of the actual student in question.
Your analogy comparing these calculators to some kind of SWAT team used for simple door opening jobs is shockingly incorrect. The strength of these machines, by their very design, is to allow for a more intuitive interface that also stimulates and enhances the overall learning experience. Like I said above, it is all about the quality of the learning experience that matters here - and this remains true in all levels of instruction, and in any field where mathematics is a main tool of the practice. The designers of the current TI interface included teams of professional math educators from all levels of instruction, along with other professional mathematics education researchers and consumer feedback/needs analysts. These machines are designed to facilitate mathematical calculations in any relevant setting - whether it's within a math class proper, or in a classroom of one of the client disciplines (like Biological Science, etc.)
Edit: Hey Mofo, I sincerely hope that the calculator you choose to buy and use works out extremely well for you, whatever make/model it ends up being. The points I am making here have now evolved to much larger ones, and are intended to respond to some rather unbelievably false and misleading examples of misinformation being put forward above. Of course there are still some examples of older instructors in our system that have deliberately chosen not to keep up with the times - and those instructors may then insist on continuing to use the older approaches that have caused the average mathematical competence of our current batch of students to be undeniably sub-par in the global arena. You obviously won't be able to check with every single future teacher you might possibly ever have in college, to see if these calculators will be disallowed - but I doubt that this will really matter that much anyway. Very many of those "old-guard" instructors are dying out, and still others are finally waking up and overhauling their older, lazier teaching approaches. Unlike nkeezer, I can speak as an educator when I offer you my advice - both on a particular individual purchase, and on the larger perspective and philosophy of the professional Math-Ed community.
[This message has been edited by al bundy (edited July 29, 2001).]
i don't know what you two are arguing about, but it's off topic if you ask me. one's arguing for using a calculator and the other one against getting an expensive calculator. ??? i'm confused.
mofo, just get a ti something (83/86/89, whatever) and you should do fine. since you're a bio major, you could as well get the 83 and save a buck or two.
there is no need for you to get an hp... those are pretty expensive, even though they are kick ***.
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Look man... this is a very personal thing... if you are good with electronic stuff get the HP 49G... its more complicated to use but it is better, indeed... however the TI-89 and the TI-92+ are not far behind and the TI's are much easier to use and have the Preaty Print thing that helps a lot... beleive me... it has a very user friendly OS if you like to call it that.. I have the TI-92+... it is great however I saw somewhere in this post that you could have problems when you are going to have an exam or something... yes, that can happen... and with the TI-89 the worries of that are gone... but still to move in th 92+ is much more easier... dont buy a calc for the games and that stuff... buy it for the things it is going to help you with... and with the TI you can download lots of apps that make every thing even easier... you just go to www.ticalc.org and in there you can download almost anything...
well hope this helps you out..
luck
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I actually bought my HP 48GX for 75 bucks and that was 4 years ago. I think that price is comparable to the TI's.Quote:
Originally posted by salehrules:
there is no need for you to get an hp... those are pretty expensive, even though they are kick ***.
pick one up on www.ebay.com
i got one of my ti-83plus for 60 bucks. used, but does that ever make a difference.
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As an engineer, I faced an enormous decision in getting ready to study for my PE - most engineers use HP calculators. I had a trusty TI-85, but wanted more firepower, plus would want another calc for the test (you're allowed to take in a spare in case one dies on you). So, HP or TI?
The 49G and 92 Plus both looked great. In the end, I went for the TI-89. The 92, with is QWERTY keyboard, would not have been allowed. I grant that the 49G is more powerful, but the 89 can do almost as much and much more easily. So it's really personal preference, because both are great products.
Incidentally, for anyone scared of Reverse Polish Notation (RPN), don't be afraid to give the 49G a try. It can be set to accept both standard and RPN entry.
And for TI fans looking for free software, tips, tricks, and even how to overclock your TI - yes, overcloking (at the cost of a warranty?) - you can go here:
http://www.ticalc.org
Just my $0.02
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[This message has been edited by hyperextreme (edited August 01, 2001).]