Tired of going back and forth between Intel and AMD? Get a damn Mac then. LOL.:p
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Tired of going back and forth between Intel and AMD? Get a damn Mac then. LOL.:p
As much as I appreciate the competition AMD's given Intel over the years in the desktop and laptop markets, I think it would be good for the industry if they were to be absorbed by someone who wanted to continue in the highend desktop processor, as well as in other areas. Not that AMD isn't ambitious enough, and they've certainly proven that they're capable of designing very capable chips and functioning as a company, I don't think they'll ever get big enough on their own to truly compete with Intel.
Any thoughts on who might acquire them if/when this does happen? And do you think they'd really want to stay in the processor market against Intel?
they dont need to be acquired they just need to let people know that they are out there. no one knows who or what an amd is. when you tell them its a cheaper alternative to intel they get all skeptical because theyve never heard of them. People will buy what you tell them to buy. AMD just needs one commercial that tells them about the mhz myth and it will make people think and more people will be willing to take the risk with amd
The difference is that Intel can bring a dud to market and just write it off. Move to the next chip and never miss a beat come dividend check time. AMD on the other hand is one dud away from being a subdivision of another company. Intel ate a high end P3, then it ate a chip set and a bunch of boards, then it’s first 64bit was a dud and they just moved on to the next chip and called it progress. What if AMD has to do the same? Intel is already building infrastructure for the next die shrink. AMD is not. Intel has cash reserves. AMD is having trouble with cash flow. Intel has a promotional budget the size of some small economies. AMD has a truck and some chips to raffle off. Let’s face it, if these new chips are really good and sell for $500 to $700 dollars, then AMD is back on the way to profitability. If the chips don’t pan out, they could be done. And if they are good, but not as good as P4 and Xeon, they will sell for $200 and AMD will continue to run up debt until their other product lines return to profitability.
AMD could very well prosper if they would do one thing...get rid of Jerry Sanders. Get some one in there that is interested is promoting/growing the company, rather than trying to settle some kind of vendeta against Intel.
who else is making CPUs. I dont care about Motorloa or VIA or these embedded part time institutions. What are the names that you see when you go into stores, AMD or Intel. If these two entities have production facilities or corporate offices anywhere in the US then niether one will disappear. Our monitored Capitolist system would not permit the Retail CPU market to fall into the hands of one company, AMD will survive either as an incorporated spinoff of another company or through Federal Funding. Thats all there is to it.
I hate to repeat my self but
Quote:
What makes me chuckle are post like these, this forum consists mostly (not exclusively) of people aged 15-20 and again most of which are full-time students yet to enter the working world or the business world. They have all these ideas of how marketing, business management and such should be dealt with but really have no idea what they are talking about. Now don't get me wrong, there are a lot of extremely well educated and informed members here but I have found typically their knowledge and expertise are limited to the technical aspects of computers and electronics but yet they love to speculate on market conditions, and corporate outlooks.
Please note I'm not directing this post at you specifically but rather the generic 16 year old high school student who is going to tell me and you and the execs at Intel or AMD why or what they're doing wrong.
I realize that my rambling rant isn't going to stop these posts from being made but for those of us who have a clue about such things just remember to think about whose post your reading and take it with a grain of salt.
Flame away kids
Now don't take this as "you guys shouldn't talk about this stuff", a few actually sound like they make have a little education/experience in this area. but please refrain from definitive statements based on nothing but uneducated hearsay.
PS: does anyone here have an MBA?
I'm 16, and I'm willing to learn anything, so do you have a problem with that?Quote:
Originally posted by macutty
I hate to repeat my self but
Now don't take this as "you guys shouldn't talk about this stuff", a few actually sound like they make have a little education/experience in this area. but please refrain from definitive statements based on nothing but uneducated hearsay.
PS: does anyone here have an MBA?
No, I actually am quite impressed with the fact this sort of subject matter (business management) interests you. But when you post a thread like this try not to make your statements so definitive, rather pose a question so you may learn the way things actually work.Quote:
Originally posted by AMD_Man
I'm 16, and I'm willing to learn anything, so do you have a problem with that?
I would rather see more of these threads but in an open minded (willing to learn) type of fashion so that more of the SF team could understand what really drives these large corporations.;)
He has a problem with people with little experience who make posts that sound as if they are truely reflecting on what is or what will happen when all they're doing is musing on a topic that they probably have no better of a groundless guess just as other joe blow SharkyForums poster.
Then again there are a few exceptional posters as well.
*edit* Or at least I think he does :p :D.
pretty much hit the nail on the head. But i will add, I would like to see more of these discussions, but aproached responsably so that we are also not improperly educating the other members. It may be just a fantasy, but you never know what may happen at SF:p ;)Quote:
Originally posted by jagojago12
He has a problem with people with little experience who make posts that sound as if they are truely reflecting on what is or what will happen when all they're doing is musing on a topic that they probably have no better of a groundless guess just as other joe blow SharkyForums poster.
Then again there are a few exceptional posters as well.
*edit* Or at least I think he does :p :D.
While not having an MBA (my girlfriend & co-investor has one), I should say the real problem is how the question was originally framed.Quote:
Originally posted by AMD_Man
that AMD is going to go out of business. Intel was in the exact same situation 2 years ago ( maybe even worse).
When you mention going out of business, this is a financial statement, not a product statement.
It doesn't take an indepth knowlendge of memory interfaces, pipelines, or an MBA to spot their problems.
For example, they only had $600 million in revenue for the last quarter. They are spending roughly $200 million a qtr in R&D. Add this on to costs of goods sold, and its a sorry picture.
As long as they can't compete with Intels high end, they can't get the average price per unit up high enough to sustain their effort. Things are only going to get worse for the next 2 to 3 qtrs. They are roughly having to bet the company on Hammer. Personally, while its kind of a nice little CPU, I still don't see how they can charge a premium price for it. 64 bit means squat to most people. In fact I wouldn't be surprised to see Intel put pressure on the FTC to make sure that AMD and computer makers make this clear to consumers. I keep hearing rumors of 2GHz as the top of the line introduction. IMHO that would spell disaster. They HAVE to get out of the cellar quickly in comparison to Intel.
It wouldn't surprise me to see them license the Duron to the likes of VIA and NVidia, and let them build the chip themselves.
I don't understand why everyone here thinks that no one else knows about AMD.... The majority of of desktop/workstation buyers know very well about AMD. The people who make recommendations for those decisions for companies (not make the decisions) are Usually pretty knowledgeable in terms of hardware. Thats just my experience anyways. I was never one of the people to recommend anything but I've always known someone who did for the companies I've worked for =) One is a really really dead company now but the other two are very large and still around. They all knew of AMD and one even went with AMD, once. But in the end they all went with Intel.
Mordin never ceasing to amazing. He seems to know at least a little (if not A LOT ) about everything! :DQuote:
Originally posted by jagojago12
He has a problem with people with little experience who make posts that sound as if they are truely reflecting on what is or what will happen when all they're doing is musing on a topic that they probably have no better of a groundless guess just as other joe blow SharkyForums poster.
Then again there are a few exceptional posters as well.
*edit* Or at least I think he does :p :D.
Anyway, you don't need to be a broker or have an MBA or even be over 18 to know that it's ridiculous that every time a company screws something up, people think that they're going to down.
Usually just a little ;) I’m a little older then most people in this forum, and have seen enough to see things from a little different perspective, that’s all. I am certainly not infallible, and I don’t pretend to be.Quote:
Originally posted by AMD_Man
Mordin never ceasing to amazing. He seems to know at least a little (if not A LOT ) about everything! :D
For example, once upon a time I was young and enthusiastic, and though that it was only a matter of time before DEC’s awesome Alpha processor pushed all the pretenders aside. Despite Alpha being the best processor in the world for more then a decade. Sometimes by a very wide margin, it never went anywhere. I’m old enough to have experienced things like that, and you will sooner or later as well. :)
Well, after reading this thread, I get the idea that the future of AMD doesn't look bright. I don't have an MBA but if I look around me at my work I can do an uneducated guess at what went wrong.
Companies don't like to take risks. They are willing to pay a lot more for hasslefree computing. At my work we recently had a whole pile of IBM's 300 PL's that were known to cause trouble. They were just piled up somewhere and replaced by new ones. We were told we could check it out to see what we could make of it, the rest would be thrown away. They are all 500 mhz PIII's or Celerons so you can put them to work at home as UT server or whatever. I have one PL and a GL at home and they are the most stable comps I've ever seen. You can throw whatever you like at them but they won't let you down. Not the best performance but stable as hell! Including warranty and servicecontract they cost around $3000 each. Just imagine a gamingrig for that price :)
All these PC's are Intel processsor with Intel chipset. No fuss, just reliability. And Intel rules this market. Then why did AMD, when they had the (Athlon)wind in the back, didn't put more of their R&D on building a good chipset? Now they can forget about it cause they don't have the money to develope such a thing. The way I see it they cannot get a foothold on this market any other way. And surely lot's of people from this forum are willing to take the time to get rid of the problems they encounter with their AMD but company's do not (nothing new about that, no flame intended).
Also: Our service department knows Intel. They know what they can do with them and how to solve problems. If they switch to AMD they have to start all over again. Not an easy task for AMD to get in there... And I guess you can't make a living these days out of homecomputers :(
What happens to enthusiasm when you get older? Does it just slide away until you become a grampa and then you yell at little kids all day to stay off the yard?Quote:
For example, once upon a time I was young and enthusiastic, and though that it was only a matter of time before DEC’s awesome Alpha processor pushed all the pretenders aside.
Quote:
Originally posted by macutty
PS: does anyone here have an MBA?
JD with emphasis in corporate/securities/finance and 1/2 and MBA. does that count?:p
Thats an interesting ponit you make there. From what i read the AMD760 was extremely stable almost "Intel like"(if not a little slow). But when mobo mnaufactors turned it into the 761 (ViA southbridge) the thing wasn't as stable but it was cheaper and faster.Quote:
Originally posted by 2March
All these PC's are Intel processsor with Intel chipset. No fuss, just reliability. And Intel rules this market. Then why did AMD, when they had the (Athlon)wind in the back, didn't put more of their R&D on building a good chipset? Now they can forget about it cause they don't have the money to develope such a thing. The way I see it they cannot get a foothold on this market any other way. And surely lot's of people from this forum are willing to take the time to get rid of the problems they encounter with their AMD but company's do not (nothing new about that, no flame intended).
If AMD had kept the mobo makers under control a little better could they have pushed into the work station market a little ?
I tend to think they should have pulled it off themself. Build a good north and southbridge and find a motherboardmanufacturer that implements them in a no thrills mobo with integrated graphics and sound. As a desktop for starters. Performance is not that much of an issue. I'm sure that PIII-500 performs better on my old Abit BX6 then on that IBM-mobo but the IBM has a better BIOS and is rock stable.
That way they would have had something to offer to company's. But I fear it's too late for that. It will take them years to proof the stability of the platform cause company's don't switch easely. Intel has the name...
To the original post...I don't think anybody thinks AMD is gonna go out of business, but (and I am included in this) many feel that AMD is VERY close to being the second tier manufacturer they were pre Athlon days.
To the couple above posts...I've always wondered why AMD won't make(and keep)a chipset on the market after processor introduction. They contradict themselves constantly by saying they want to get into the XYZ market, but are unwilling to do the steps to allow it to happen. The server market looks for TOTAL solutions(ie intel systems on intel chipsets), but AMD is unwilling to provide them with the system to run their processors on. AMD can make the most buttkicking processor ever, but it won't gain market acceptance without the total package. This is a big reason why I see little hope for penetration into the server market for the hammer.
If you all didnt know, AMD makes more then just processors... even IF their processor division was doing bad they could always fall back upon their other divisions. AMD wont go out of business because of lacking CPU sales.
AMD’s cash cow has been flash memory, but those sales are off too. And as the Asians penetrate the flash market, AMD will no longer be able to rely on flash to carry its other aspirations.
Quote:
Originally posted by 2March
Well, after reading this thread, I get the idea that the future of AMD doesn't look bright. I don't have an MBA but if I look around me at my work I can do an uneducated guess at what went wrong.
I don’t know if it is that grim. I think a larger company may snap up AMD at some point, but right now they still have a lot going for them. They are one of the best companies out there in process technology suitable for high-end processors; they have one of the best processor design teams around. (Possibly the best one that doesn’t belong to Intel), and they have a market recognition.
If another company absorbs them, I would expect them to keep their brand distinct, like IBM did with Lotus.Quote:
Originally posted by 2March
Companies don't like to take risks. They are willing to pay a lot more for hasslefree computing. At my work we recently had a whole pile of IBM's 300 PL's that were known to cause trouble. They were just piled up somewhere and replaced by new ones. We were told we could check it out to see what we could make of it, the rest would be thrown away. They are all 500 mhz PIII's or Celerons so you can put them to work at home as UT server or whatever. I have one PL and a GL at home and they are the most stable comps I've ever seen. You can throw whatever you like at them but they won't let you down. Not the best performance but stable as hell! Including warranty and servicecontract they cost around $3000 each. Just imagine a gamingrig for that price :)
All these PC's are Intel processsor with Intel chipset. No fuss, just reliability. And Intel rules this market. Then why did AMD, when they had the (Athlon)wind in the back, didn't put more of their R&D on building a good chipset? Now they can forget about it cause they don't have the money to develope such a thing. The way I see it they cannot get a foothold on this market any other way. And surely lot's of people from this forum are willing to take the time to get rid of the problems they encounter with their AMD but company's do not (nothing new about that, no flame intended).
Also: Our service department knows Intel. They know what they can do with them and how to solve problems. If they switch to AMD they have to start all over again. Not an easy task for AMD to get in there... And I guess you can't make a living these days out of homecomputers :(
This is pretty much right on target. The only thing to add is the long-term stability of Intel’s platform. (I’m not talking about crashes here…) Intel chipsets tend to stick around for a very long time, and that is a big advantage any time you have to support a large number of systems. Systems with the same components, especially chipsets tend to have similar problems. If you can limit the number of different chipsets you are supporting, you can increase the efficiency with which you provide that support simply because there are fewer things to go wrong and your tech staff already know how to fix them.
Compare how long the i850 chipset has been around, and yet it still has a few years left in it. AMD OTOH seems to want to concentrate on keeping the socket the same, but that is only an issue for enthusiasts, in the corporate world, and likely for large OEM’s as well, it’s far more important to keep the chipset the same.
This thread has gotten soo much more constructive, this is what I like.;)
PS. my comment about an MBA wasn't posed to infer that you need an MBA to respond to threads like this, but rather I was fishing for someone who may lend a hand in educating a little.
PPS. I dont have an MBA either:eek: :eek: ;)