All types of video gaming banned in Greece

Yea well we should be getting ready for the same to happen over here in the USA eventually...it's not just guns anymore that get banned it's also the instruments used to convey thoughts.


You have to remember that ALL governments are INHERENTLY EVIL...Governments only care about their own survival and care little for those they govern. You have to remember also that people involved in government(I won't say all but MOST) are in it because they are sick and twisted people that get off on controling the lives of others.

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Originally posted by Ganja



Heres a hint socialism or communisim whatever you wanna call it in REALITY is more democratic then the so called "democracy" you talk of.

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What?? :confused:

How do you figure? Examples please....

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Originally posted by Mr. K



What?? :confused:

How do you figure? Examples please....

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The Marxist view is that Socialism is true democracy and what you have in the US is a water-downed version where business is more powerful than the people and government. Problem is, Socialism has as many flaws as modern bourgeois democracies like the US and the UK.

I wouldn't be surprised if the EU decided banning games was against human rights and ruined the Greek government’s plans.

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Originally posted by Mr. Bombastic
The Marxist view is that Socialism is true democracy and what you have in the US is a water-downed version where business is more powerful than the people and government. Problem is, Socialism has as many flaws as modern bourgeois democracies like the US and the UK.

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The flaws aren't in Marxism or democracy, but in human nature. Marxism looks good on paper, but it requires a lot of effort from the individual. It's easy to run our mouths about Marxist values, but capitalism is more in line with our tendency toward laziness and greed.

Another poster said that computer gaming was a privilege. I assume he didn't mean that it was a privilege everywhere. It's not a privilege in the US.

http://pc.ign.com/articles/369/369880p1.html

now that's pushing it too far. Banning *all* gaming. What were they thinking??!!!

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Originally posted by Optikal
http://pc.ign.com/articles/369/369880p1.html

now that's pushing it too far. Banning *all* gaming. What were they thinking??!!!

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Heh lol

If they banned games in the US the repercussions of it will be so sever that the government would have to reisnstate or ALOT of people would start crap

Yeah unforgiven I realized that after hehe,I just figured it was unreal that they banned all electronic games.Im sure it will be repealed soon.
About the politics I dont wanna start,I dont like arguing about politics,Ill just let you know that I am not a communist or a marxist,Im actually more of an Anarchist,and no anarchy is not chaos and lawlessness go read some books about the Spanish civil war for example and how Barcelona for a short period was controlled by the reds and anarchists,thats true anarchy not this bs you see on tv or here on the sensationalist media.I just beleive in true democracy where the ppl actually get to have a word in whats going on.Not this "democracy" most neo liberal countrys have where the coporations own everything and make the laws,presidents,senates and all that are nothing but puppets and the strings are controlled by the 1337 wealthy.

i suppose greek gamers will get the games like the old days... illegal

like alcohol in the 1930 in the US (more or less)

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Originally posted by LouIII

The flaws aren't in Marxism or democracy, but in human nature. Marxism looks good on paper, but it requires a lot of effort from the individual. It's easy to run our mouths about Marxist values, but capitalism is more in line with our tendency toward laziness and greed.

Another poster said that computer gaming was a privilege. I assume he didn't mean that it was a privilege everywhere. It's not a privilege in the US.

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Im afraid i dont follow, where is it writen or said computer gaming is a right?

that sucks...i would move out the counrty if that happened here

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Originally posted by Ganja
Yeah unforgiven I realized that after hehe,I just figured it was unreal that they banned all electronic games.Im sure it will be repealed soon.
About the politics I dont wanna start,I dont like arguing about politics,Ill just let you know that I am not a communist or a marxist,Im actually more of an Anarchist,and no anarchy is not chaos and lawlessness go read some books about the Spanish civil war for example and how Barcelona for a short period was controlled by the reds and anarchists,thats true anarchy not this bs you see on tv or here on the sensationalist media.I just beleive in true democracy where the ppl actually get to have a word in whats going on.Not this "democracy" most neo liberal countrys have where the coporations own everything and make the laws,presidents,senates and all that are nothing but puppets and the strings are controlled by the 1337 wealthy.

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Fight the powers.

True change has to be fought for.

Hi,

just an update. I read another article about it, can't remember where (could have been the electronic telegraph). They banned all kind of games in public places i.e. arcade machines, slot machines even games on mobile phones used in public areas. At home, in your own 4 walls you are still allowed to use them!!!

Like I said, don't know whether that story is true but it makes more "sense" (if it ever could)

just read the article sent by raven a few posts down the road. They DID ban everything, what a total un-european decision. They will not get far. The Greek Games industry is going to the European courts!

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Originally posted by Mancora
Im afraid i dont follow, where is it writen or said computer gaming is a right?

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It isn't stated anywhere, nor does it need to be. Freedom to pursue happiness and express ourselves freely are considered in the US to be God-given rights. A judge clarified this in a court case at end of the 1800's (I've misplaced the citation). He said that the US Constitution simply recognizes our God-given rights--rather than granting them to us--and that a government administration that tried to deny us of our natural rights would be stealing what is inalienably ours. Hypocrisy or "the reality of the streets" aside, this is America's core principle.

I've met Americans who were uncomfortable with this core principle. They seemed to prefer a situation in which their neighbors were on the leash of a more "paternal" government, and in which "rights" were in effect privileges. As an American, I recognize their right to feel that way. I'd be happy to support them with a ride to the airport so they can find a system of government more to their liking.

Did they also ban PONG?! What about FROGGER and PACMAN!?:eek: ;)

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Originally posted by soupnazi
Did they also ban PONG?! What about FROGGER and PACMAN!?:eek: ;)

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Gone.. all gone https://www.sharkyforums.com/

read up

LAW NUMBER 3037 - 30 July 2002

GAMING PROHIBITION

The President of Greek Republic
We issue the following law which was voted by the Greek Parliament

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Article 1
Game categories
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According to notion of the commands of the current law:
a. Mechanical games are those, that depend on one's muscle force.
b. Electrical games are those, that depend on electrical mechanisms.
c. Electromechanical games are those that depend on electrical mechanisms and the use of one's muscle force.
d. Electronic games are those, that depend on both electrical-electronic mechanisms and software.
e. Entertainment technical games are those, whose result depends exclusively on the ability and skill of the player, and are used solely for entertainment.

The category (e) also includes all card games which had been characterised as "technical" games, according to the statement of law F.E.K A21.
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Article 2
Game prohibition
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1. Operation and installation of any game of type (b), (c) and (d) of Article 1, including computer games, placed in public places such as hotels, cafeterias, organization halls and in any other public or private place, is prohibited.
2. Operation of games of type (e) is allowed in devices of type (a). Regarding these games, it is prohibited to place bets. Such bets will attract penalties described in Articles 4 and 5.

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Article 3
Internet cafes
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The prohibition of using computers described in Article 2 does not affect internet cafes, as long as the computers are not used for any gaming activities.

To be able to run an Internet cafe, a special permit is required from the municipal or the state where the company is based) and from its starting point (port) if it is a boat based company. According to the first application of this measure, the company should be equipped with this permit in three months from the issue date of this law.

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Article 4
Criminal sanctions
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1. Any persons who manage or depend on centres or other places as described in paragraph 1 of Article 2 where games prohibited by the previous Articles are in use or even exist, will be penalised with at least three months of jail plus a fine of at least 5,000 Euros. If this offense is repeated, the penalty will be at least one year of jail plus a fine between 25,000 and 75,000 Euros. The court will also command the confiscation of all those games.
2. The orders for the games of type "c", in paragraph 1, paragraph 3 and 4 of Article 7 of the coded command 29/1971 are followed accordingly.


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Article 5
Administrative sanctions
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1. Apart from the criminal sanctions, if it is found that a prohibited game, according to the commands of the previous articles, there will be a fine of 10,000 Euros for every such game and permanent taking away of the business license, according to the orders of Article 7.
2. The fine will be based on the decision of the corresponding authority, in paragraph 1 of Article 6, who had found the violation. In this decision the violation will be described, the fine will be underlined, as well as the order in use. Together with this decision, a copy of the violation report will be notified towards the violator.


-----------------------------------------
Article 6
Report of confirmation of violations
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1. The police authorities are responsible to enforce this law. The port authorities are responsible for boats traveling domestically, and for any other boats staying at the corresponding port.
2. If the authorities for the "body for fighting financial crime" find violations of the law for the games, they will impose the sanctions and will proceed to actions described in the previous article.


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Article 7
Authorization
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1. The terms, conditions, procedures and permits for Internet companies are determined by the common decision of the Ministry of Finance, Ministry of Internal Affairs, Ministry of Public Administration, Ministry of Public Order and Ministry of Trading.
2. A similar decision establishes the authority which enforces the taking away of business licenses, the procedure of taking it away as well as any other necessary details for applying the orders of this law.


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Article 8
Tax returns
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Whoever has already paid " tax for running businesses with entertainment technical games" for 2002 for electronical, electrical or electromechanical games, will have their tax returned corresponding to the time of the publication of the law in the Government's Paper until the end of the year. No returns will be made in the case of violation of the law for games and there is no awaiting court case in front of the Committee in paragraph 4 of article 15 of law 2753/1999 (FEK 249 A').


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Article 9
Maintained and transitive orders
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1. With the orders of this law, there are no complications with the orders of the law 2206/1994 (FEK 62 A')as well as the rest of the orders regarding casinos.
2. From the start of the enforcement of this law, the three-member game committees which are established by the orders in paragraph 4 of article 15 of law 2753/1999, cease to exist. They will still exist though, until the finish of check up of the game machines that had been binded by the auditor authorities and for which there had been a reserve.


--------------------------
Articles 10, 11, and 12 describe the changes in the laws only for card games and are not relative with the game machine orders.
--------------------------




ATHENS 29th of July 2002


************************************************************ ************************************************************ ********
END OF LAW 3037 ************************************************************ ********************************************
************************************************************ ************************************************************ ********


No responsibility is taken for any syntax, grammatical or translation mistakes.



Grand Master Peter

Since gaming is now banned in Greece, I guess they can't blame youth violence on games anymore. ;) PONG drove me to violence!!! :D LOL

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Originally posted by THE SHADOW
At home, in your own 4 walls you are still allowed to use them!!!

Like I said, don't know whether that story is true but it makes more "sense" (if it ever could)

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No, I think your new article got it wrong. They have banned all gaming in public AND IN PRIVATE!!!

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Originally posted by LouIII

It isn't stated anywhere, nor does it need to be. Freedom to pursue happiness and express ourselves freely are considered in the US to be God-given rights. A judge clarified this in a court case at end of the 1800's (I've misplaced the citation). He said that the US Constitution simply recognizes our God-given rights--rather than granting them to us--and that a government administration that tried to deny us of our natural rights would be stealing what is inalienably ours. Hypocrisy or "the reality of the streets" aside, this is America's core principle.

I've met Americans who were uncomfortable with this core principle. They seemed to prefer a situation in which their neighbors were on the leash of a more "paternal" government, and in which "rights" were in effect privileges. As an American, I recognize their right to feel that way. I'd be happy to support them with a ride to the airport so they can find a system of government more to their liking.

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I totally agree, the nature of American law is that everything is legal unless officially stated as being illegal. That being sad God granted us freedom, and the government limits certain freedoms (freedom to kill, rape, etc.) while at the same time protects us from loosing others (speech, assembly, have a well regulated militia, etc.)

Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness is NOT granted to us by the Constitution. It is stated in the Declaration of Independence which is NOT a legal document (it's more a thumbing of our noses to Big King G3). The Constitution actually recognises our rights to Life, Liberty, and Property. ~ Come on people was I the only one awake in Mr. Spades US Government class?

Video Games will NOT be banded in American, especially not anytime soon. Did you see the amount of money video reeled in last year, mucho mucho billions? It was the fasted growing market in America, it beat out Porn! If the government tomorrow banded all video games our economy would plummet even farther into recession. Us American like out recreation way too much, oh, and we have guns, let'em just try to take Pong away from me! ;) :D

Declaration of Independence:
http://www.archives.gov/exhibit_hall...scription.html
US Constitution
http://www.archives.gov/exhibit_hall...scription.html

Thomas Jefferson, you know the guy that wrote the Declaration of Independece, set up some really nice public libraries here in America. I suggest some of you people take a short trip to your local one and open you minds a little.

And, don't even get me started on the entire 'True Anarchy' BS.

[i]edit: Formating and mixed up Kings[i/]

Lol, i posted before i had checked the bottem of page 3 and he stated it much better than i did :)

reading that translation of the new law made me wonder. They are talking about public places. It does NOT mention your own home!!! Anyway, I think the Greek government is foolish!:mad:

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Originally posted by THE SHADOW
reading that translation of the new law made me wonder. They are talking about public places. It does NOT mention your own home!!! Anyway, I think the Greek government is foolish!:mad:

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From Article 2, Item 1: "Operation and installation of any game of type (b), (c) and (d) of Article 1, including computer games, placed in public places such as hotels, cafeterias, organization halls and in any other public or private place, is prohibited" [emphasis mine].

To the gamers of Greece: We feel your pain and hope you'll be rid of this imposition soon.

i hate to put out such blatant flame bait, but after i read about greece, my first thought was "stupid socialists"

IMHO, people are way too greedy to ever make socialism work. i, for one, have no problem with that.

a second apology, this one for being such a gringo, but VIVA LA CAPITALISM! :)

There's a Greek Web Site at www.markgoldie.co.uk/gameland/index2.htm that discusses what's happening with the gaming ban. They have a petition going too, so make sure you sign it (write only responsible comments; profanity or "this sucks, dude" won't help the cause).