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Ok here is my drawing exactly duplicated (with some fancy stuff ;) from the Yamaha Sound Majors handbook
The against wall appears to gain +1 db at the 20hz-30hz on the book.And 0 for the rest Sorry for shaky line
Sub placement
https://www.sharkyforums.com/images/...2004/04/44.jpg
My ultras are the best investment I've ever made and I've only had them two days.
"If your going to do it right?
***, the Gigaworks are arguably better than the Ultras, in fact the Sats are widely considered better."
Yea the sats are better but by how much? Have you A-B'd the two sets side by side? well in any case theEAR has and the difference isnt as great as you think - also I remember reading that if you like listening to high volumes (something I do on occasion) the ultra sats are less fatiguing than any of the megaworks/gigaworks line (I could be wrong on this but thats what I remember hearing)
Bottom line - yes they are better - but it isnt a huge difference in any way. Personally I have a biased taste for horn speakers and I prefer listening to jazz and classical music with a set of horns to bring a livelier soundstage. ( granted they suck for heavy metal music so its a double edged sword.)
"No offense to the Ultra owners in here, but the most important thing to most audiophiles is high quality mid range and high end + soundstage."
No one will argue there - so no offense taken as the ultras still have a very strong lightly colored midrange - and excellent crisp highs - that only get strident at very high volumes.
Again a debate like this could go on forever! :) If I didn't like the sound of horns ( and many people don't - and I wanted to listen to alot of classical, acoustical music - soft vocals, etc. and My interest in clear deep bass was minimal then I would choose the gigaworks.) However I do not fancy listening to Celin Dions devine voice at moderate volumes. I hold bass as important in music as it sets the tempo - rythm and beat that makes the foundtation to MOST music. In the end its very subjective - but I think many would argue (especially here ) that the ultras are a more rounded system that perform in say B+ to A's across all types of music where as the gigaworks would perform some A+'s and some B- where the ultras would score an A or a B+ overall...
I hope people realize both systems suit different tastes and overall are quite equal even though its been said 100 times , maybe more. Having said that- they are miles ahead of anything else offered by any other manufacturuer for multimedia use.
Why doesn't anyone take my reccomendations? I've demoed both extensively. I don't like how people rave about one or the other, without demoing both. Everyone thinks I'm just a fanboy :)
I never argued against the gigas and I've also heard that the sats are better. But I do know that the ultras sub is better than the gigas so how can u say the gigas are better? It depends on what you listen too.Quote:
Originally posted by Swerv
"If your going to do it right?
***, the Gigaworks are arguably better than the Ultras, in fact the Sats are widely considered better."
Yea the sats are better but by how much? Have you A-B'd the two sets side by side? well in any case theEAR has and the difference isnt as great as you think - also I remember reading that if you like listening to high volumes (something I do on occasion) the ultra sats are less fatiguing than any of the megaworks/gigaworks line (I could be wrong on this but thats what I remember hearing)
Bottom line - yes they are better - but it isnt a huge difference in any way. Personally I have a biased taste for horn speakers and I prefer listening to jazz and classical music with a set of horns to bring a livelier soundstage. ( granted they suck for heavy metal music so its a double edged sword.)
"No offense to the Ultra owners in here, but the most important thing to most audiophiles is high quality mid range and high end + soundstage."
No one will argue there - so no offense taken as the ultras still have a very strong lightly colored midrange - and excellent crisp highs - that only get strident at very high volumes.
Again a debate like this could go on forever! :) If I didn't like the sound of horns ( and many people don't - and I wanted to listen to alot of classical, acoustical music - soft vocals, etc. and My interest in clear deep bass was minimal then I would choose the gigaworks.) However I do not fancy listening to Celin Dions devine voice at moderate volumes. I hold bass as important in music as it sets the tempo - rythm and beat that makes the foundtation to MOST music. In the end its very subjective - but I think many would argue (especially here ) that the ultras are a more rounded system that perform in say B+ to A's across all types of music where as the gigaworks would perform some A+'s and some B- where the ultras would score an A or a B+ overall...
I hope people realize both systems suit different tastes and overall are quite equal even though its been said 100 times , maybe more. Having said that- they are miles ahead of anything else offered by any other manufacturuer for multimedia use.
hence why i always argue the ultras are an better OVERALL buy. just given the margins between the sub and sats. the sats not much better, but the sub on the ultras being a lot better. Some may say I am biased, but I argue from extensive listening to bothQuote:
Originally posted by number1sixerfan
I never argued against the gigas and I've also heard that the sats are better. But I do know that the ultras sub is better than the gigas so how can u say the gigas are better? It depends on what you listen too.
I'd rather spend money on Klipsch speakers than Creative speakers. That's just me. I couldn't tell you why. Maybe it's just because the Klipsch speakers look better built to me. I duhno. W00T for Klipsch!
LOL. That definitely didn't help the Ultra's case. Haha.Quote:
Originally posted by ImaNihilist
I'd rather spend money on Klipsch speakers than Creative speakers. That's just me. I couldn't tell you why. Maybe it's just because the Klipsch speakers look better built to me. I duhno. W00T for Klipsch!
I'm not going lie, looks go a long way. People who tell you different are just ugly. Haha. :)
Haha. All you Creative fanboys just got owned.Quote:
Originally posted by PinchyCM
I'm not going lie, looks go a long way. People who tell you different are just ugly. Haha. :)
actually the giga says are better built, and dont feel as flimsy. on the other hand the sub construction is ok for the gigas but the ultra sub is better built. In any case I do prefer the look of the ultras but- that wouldnt be any sort of a determining factor into which speakers I would buy. The gigas arent ugly by any means either.
Look at them Wilsons. Not pretty to most people, although I just feel they are "interesting" sorta like star wars themed, not bad. But none will argue to how they sound. So butt ugly and sounds good is ok, unless its Akg k1000 hps walking down the hall hehe
agreedQuote:
Originally posted by Swerv
actually the giga says are better built, and dont feel as flimsy. on the other hand the sub construction is ok for the gigas but the ultra sub is better built.
The megaworks have 3.5in drivers not 3in. Not a huge difference, but noticable. And I can mention my Axioms if I want to just like anybody else can mention their speakers. I wasn't even making any comparisons.Quote:
Originally posted by PinchyCM
The Gigaworks sub IS more than just a half decent sub.
I think you just might not prefer the sound of horns. The PM5.1s has an excellent midrange, on par with the Megas. I've used both extensively and feel that the PM5.1s are better set than the Megas because of their just as good mids, and even better highs. You really can't compete with a system that has both a 3" midrange driver and a tweeter with just a 3" driver. Unless it's so poorly crafted, it just won't happen. Don't get me wrong though. I love the Megaworks, I own a set myself.
Why do people keep bringing Axioms into this? They're bookshelves, don't include a sub, and each speaker costs almost 4 times the price of one Ultra sattelite. Also, they're not 5.1, and performs a whole different purpose.
On a side note, I'm curious to know what sub you have paired with that Axiom?
I guess so, but whenever we talk about the Ultras and Gigas, you and Idiot always bring up Axioms. Coincidence? Maybe. Either way, which sub do you have with your Axioms?Quote:
Originally posted by xcjago
The megaworks have 3.5in drivers not 3in. Not a huge difference, but noticable. And I can mention my Axioms if I want to just like anybody else can mention their speakers. I wasn't even making any comparisons.
Hmm I noticed that too. I seen 5 threads here that had axiom, ultra and gigas in the same thread :)
I do believe Jago has Athena. A worthy sub indeed. Forgot what he paid though
Well i own the ultras, and i certainly adore them. Now these speakers simply go for different tastes, i feel the ultras are meant more for games / rap / movies. The creatives seem to be better for like jazz, classical music, etc... But since i game and watch movies more than listen to music, i got the ultras. Plus the ultra's sub kicks ***!
people mistake a good sub for just rap/club/dance/techno. a good sub extends to all genres. especially classical.
Heck yah! word up shizay Papa Pinch!
;)
You and I know that Nobuo Uematsu on his orchestrated full motion video scores has sound down to 20 hz at high volume. 16hz pipe organs, 27 hz piano playing on dramatic music! Bass guitar goes down to 31 hz. I believe Bach is the master of Low End bass back in the day. Oh and Rap does Boomy 50-70 hz bass. Those FRs are not bad, its just that its increased there. Low bass is not a concern with rap as much as Hard bass. Classical can use both. Gotta love that Movie orchestration! Lord of the rings has LOTS OF LOW bass on the orchestra and troll scenes. So sub is important to music in general.
yeah Maybe I should post my FR chart again.
https://www.sharkyforums.com/images/...2004/04/43.jpg
You can definitely mate the Gigaworks satellites to the Ultra subwoofer. As I recall, the amp for the Ultra sats are rated at 6-ohms, while the Gigaworks sats are rated at 8-ohms. As long as the ohm ratings for the speakers are rated higher than the ones on the amp then you should have no problems hooking them up. From what I read, it would actually be easier to drive the Gigaworks sats to higher volumes on the Ultra amp as compared to the stock Ultra sats. If people are interested in going this route they can always consider the 2-speaker expansion/upgrade for the S700s for $100. Just buy three sets of those and you are all set for 6.1. Although, this would be one expensive proposition. :)
I can't tell you that the Gigaworks sound better than the Ultras because I have never heard the Ultras before in person, but I can definitely say that the Gigaworks have a better built than the Ultras. I saw the the Ultras at J&R (god knows why I didn't listen to them, probably because I was too impatient for some other guy to finish auditioning some other speakers). Anyway, comparing the sats, the Gigaworks had more heft to them and to me had a more solid built. The two subwoofer built qualities seems to be on par with each other.
Or maybe I am just a bit bias since I do own the Gigaworks S700. :)
Yes, I have the Athena AS-P300. Hopefully I will be getting an HSU STF-2 soon.Quote:
Originally posted by PinchyCM
I guess so, but whenever we talk about the Ultras and Gigas, you and Idiot always bring up Axioms. Coincidence? Maybe. Either way, which sub do you have with your Axioms?
You know, I'm just trying to give some balance here. Anytime somebody asks advice on the Ultras vs. Gigaworks, they get bombarded with "Klipsch rules!! Buy the Ultras!!" and things like "the Gigaworks sats are just barely better but the Ultra sub KILLS the Gigaworks!!"
Well, maybe to you the difference in the sats is negligible. But not to me. As you know, I sold my original PM 5.1s for the Megaworks 550 after extensive listening. From what I hear, the Ultras sats are really not much different at all than the original PM 5.1s. And I'm sure I'm not the only person who would feel this way.
"From what I hear, the Ultras sats are really not much different at all than the original PM 5.1s. And I'm sure I'm not the only person who would feel this way."
You're right for the most part upon first listen it would appear this way. I have noted the ultra sats to have the following improvements over the older pm5.1 sats
1.high freq smoothness and clarity/timbre is improved (most noticable)
2.piano distortion is gone in the higher freq (new crossover probably...)
3.Midrange vocals are louder and more pronounced than the pm5.1 sats - noticable on dvds during dialogue.
4.the sats can be played at much louder volumes without getting tireing or strident.
5. Overall the treble is more laid back and toned down.
While these may seem like minor differences, to myself they are quite apparent. Yes tonally , they sound pretty much the same - imaging is about the same and the soundstage as well.
If these were the things you disliked then I can understand your POV. However if you have yet to hear a proplerly setup ultra system, I think its only fair to hold off judgement with the gigas to the point you're makeing it sound like its a pm5.1 vs gigas.
I think alot of people would be impressed musically if they had the proper placement and had an appreciation for live sound.
See, the minute you try to give a discerning viewpoint, you get bombarded with an insane amount of Klipsch biasness, on these boards.
Come on people, I realize you all spent over 350 on Ultras, and you love them... but the lenghts that you go to defend you're purchase is stupid.
First of all, many of you will say to me, that I haven't heard the Gigas so I don't know.
Well from what I can tell, the majority of the rest of you in here, (Ultra owners included) haven't either, so when you say the Ultras are overall better, your word is no better than mine when I say, the Gigas (and I always include "From what I've read) are overall better than the Ultras.
Let the Gigas get around, at this point they are much harder speakers to get at brick and mortor stores.
Personally, (from what I read) better build quality, better sats, and an overall better price online... is enough to recomend the gigas over the ultras for me.
Not to mention, the Gigas have the ability to upgrade to 7.1 with a simple 100 dollar upgrade... yes, I'm going to get an insane amount of.
7.1 is a waste responses, and all I have to say to them is... it's sure is a waste, when you realize you can't do it.
The minute Klipsch in two years, brings out it's 7.1 upgraded Ultras, will have a bunch of changed minds in here, wont we.
No offense, but I didn't waste my money on a 300 dollar sub woofer, and 3 inch tin can satilite speakers.Quote:
Originally posted by ImaNihilist
The Ultras own you. You're just upset because you got "pwn3d" by a set of speakers.
I wasted it on these.
And when I complete my 5.1 setup, believe me, the Ultras aint got s**t on my system.
Yes, you get what you paid for :p
Yes I know I am going to be paying a lot more than a set of Ultras.
Yes I will be enjoying great midrange, much better soundstage, and superior sound.
Yes I love pissing off Ultra owners... because there just so much bias in here.