Priated Games? Whats your value system?

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Also make sure you're not running overclocked when you start a "moral" debate...

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Bad example if you are trying to make a point. He paid for the processor, he didn't take it from some one. Overclocking isn't illegal, but if he fried the processor because of overclocking and tried to RMA it because he damaged it, that is stealing.

Under your example, anyone who buys a car with a 4-cylinder engine and soups it up to make more horsepower is stealing because the company offered a V6 that already output more power.

If you're going to make an example, at least make sure it is applicable.

I pirated some games...but most of them I bought...now after trying with a few others to help develop our own game...I buy everything...the amount of work that goes into it is just insane and developers need to get paid for that...

I just want to make a clarification. There is a difference between stealing a game, a movie or a piece of software and stealing cars, bikes, or money. If you steal a car, the person who had it in the past will not be a able use the car or sell it to someone else because he or she no longer has it. Same thing with money, if you physically steal your friends money, your friend will not be able to buy anything with it. If you steal a movie or a game, the company who makes the movie would still be able to sell that movie. They are not physically losing anything.

People, including myself do stuff all the time that is against most value systems. It's hard to questions someone else's value system. It's hard enough trying to keep myself on the straight and narrow. On top of that, so many games lack any type of value when they glorify every bad behavior. If you are truely concerned about this, actually do something to stop it.

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Originally posted by SmoothCorn
I just want to make a clarification. There is a difference between stealing a game, a movie or a piece of software and stealing cars, bikes, or money. If you steal a car, the person who had it in the past will not be a able use the car or sell it to someone else because he or she no longer has it. Same thing with money, if you physically steal your friends money, your friend will not be able to buy anything with it. If you steal a movie or a game, the company who makes the movie would still be able to sell that movie. They are not physically losing anything.

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Either way it is still illegal. You act like they aren't out anything but they are, they are out money. If you could magically stop all piracy instantly, you would see an increase in the number of software/music/movie titles sold.

This isn't a value/morals question.

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Originally posted by mynameis
Either way it is still illegal. You act like they aren't out anything but they are, they are out money. If you could magically stop all piracy instantly, you would see an increase in the number of software/music/movie titles sold.

This isn't a value/morals question.

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yea, ofcource it is illegal, Im just saying that one more movie dowlnoaded does not necessarily mean one less movie bought...

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Originally posted by tinker dave
Sure I overclock but I see no where where Intel says its illegal.

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Originally posted by mynameis
People are talking about pirating software as if it is in some grey area of some moral system, but it isn't, it is very clearly illegal.

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One other thing that commonly happens in these threads is people confuse legality with morality quite readily. They are very different ideas and switching back and forth like that only serves to confuse the issues. We can easly see this though the example of an unmoral law, like killing every lefthanded person you see. If you dont follow that are you doing something moraly wrong? No, illegal yes, but not morally.

As i see it there are only three reason for people to follow laws

-They obeying laws have been engrained into them
-They are afriad of being caught
-They agree with the laws moraly

There is almost nothing to discuss on the first and second reason for following laws, which leaves the issue of morality in the forfront.


Nothing is brought to the table by bringing up points of "its illegal." The only point that has something to discus about is the morality. (im hoping people wont just ignore this and will drop the talk about illegality)




*hits preview button after taking tea break*

"This isn't a value/morals question."
It isnt? If its not a moral question then it must be about whether this is illegal or not [which is mostly a no brainer for everyone here], i dont see another avenues besides those two. If you see something else besides moral/legal please tell me about it.

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Originally posted by SmoothCorn
I just want to make a clarification. There is a difference between stealing a game, a movie or a piece of software and stealing cars, bikes, or money. If you steal a car, the person who had it in the past will not be a able use the car or sell it to someone else because he or she no longer has it. Same thing with money, if you physically steal your friends money, your friend will not be able to buy anything with it. If you steal a movie or a game, the company who makes the movie would still be able to sell that movie. They are not physically losing anything.

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That may be your definition of stealing, but it surely ain't the Legislature's definition.;)

You're stealing someone's intellectual property. (That's why we have the Patent System, for example)

Just go ahead and steal someone's [patented] idea, and try to take off with it. Watch how quickly you'll get shot down.

Same here. You are trying to use someone's product without paying for it.

Like stealing cable.

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Originally posted by SmoothCorn
yea, ofcource it is illegal, Im just saying that one more movie dowlnoaded does not necessarily mean one less movie bought...

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That's not the point. The point is you trying to use a product you didn't pay for. It's not about you not paying for it, necessarily. It's about you USING it without paying for it.

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Originally posted by SmoothCorn
Im just saying that one more movie dowlnoaded does not necessarily mean one less movie bought...

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That may be true but that doesn't mean that piracy doesn't cost people money.

Mancora, so are you trying to say that we shouldn't follow a law if you think it is morally wrong? People can justify anything to themselves if they really want to. I also don't agree with you saying that people shouldn't worry about getting caught, that used to be the mentality of song sharers on P2P networks up until the law suits started coming.

I don't think anybody is going to argue whether or not there should be a laws against piracy, I mean think about the opposite, make piracy legal.

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Originally posted by Matt_E
That may be your definition of stealing, but it surely ain't the Legislature's definition.;)

You're stealing someone's intellectual property. (That's why we have the Patent System, for example)

Just go ahead and steal someone's [patented] idea, and try to take off with it. Watch how quickly you'll get shot down.

Same here. You are trying to use someone's product without paying for it.

Like stealing cable.

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*reads the quote Matt_E showed a few times*

I darn strange, nowhere in there do i see him saying that stealing a program wasnt stealing. Just that stealing a program and stealing a car are different. Thats the idea that i based a thread on not too long ago http://www.sharkyforums.com/showthre...hreadid=253544

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Originally posted by Mancora
*reads the quote Matt_E showed a few times*

I darn strange, nowhere in there do i see him saying that stealing a program wasnt stealing. Just that stealing a program and stealing a car are different. Thats the idea that i based a thread on not too long ago http://www.sharkyforums.com/showthre...hreadid=253544

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Alright, it is indeed different in that you aren't taking physical property from someone. Who cares?
Does that somehow justify the act in some way? Does it make it less wrong?

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Originally posted by Matt_E
That's not the point. The point is you trying to use a product you didn't pay for. It's not about you not paying for it, necessarily. It's about you USING it without paying for it.

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Wait until the first time a shady employer screws him out of some hours or on OT at a job. It's not a physical good, but a service, more liken to how many justify pirating. Then let's see how they feel about whether it was right or wrong.

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Originally posted by mynameis
People are talking about pirating software as if it is in some grey area of some moral system, but it isn't, it is very clearly illegal.

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Not where I live.

Where do you live?

Canada. The land of the free.

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Originally posted by Un4given
Wait until the first time a shady employer screws him on OT at a job. It's not a physical good, but a service, more liken to how many justify pirating. Then let's see how they feel about whether it was right or wrong.

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That is a very good point...

I find it lame and lack of intelligence if people think that interlectual property means nothing. That they can pirate it anytime they want, they were never going to buy it...

If you were never going to buy it, you wouldnt of wasted your time in downloading it! Just another lame excuse by some lame kid...

We might as well steal cable, satellite services, telephone and other items which are not a tangible object.

Is there no legislation in place governing theft of intellectual property, Digital Media rights, etc?

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Originally posted by Freddy_Kruger
Canada. The land of the free.

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Ohhhhhhh so that's why you're such a hardcore pirate. I understand now. There's not much to do in Canada besides pirate games. :D

/used to be a Canadian.

-MrD

the patent system is totally different. If you try SELLING somebody eles's idea, then yea, you are in trouble.

And like Mancora said, there is no point in discussing whether this is legal or not. Obviously piracy is illegal. We are trying to discuss the morals here.

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Originally posted by mynameis
That may be true but that doesn't mean that piracy doesn't cost people money.

Mancora, so are you trying to say that we shouldn't follow a law if you think it is morally wrong? People can justify anything to themselves if they really want to. I also don't agree with you saying that people shouldn't worry about getting caught, that used to be the mentality of song sharers on P2P networks up until the law suits started coming.

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Pretty much, but i more mean that debating whether you should follow a law or not is only a moral issue.

I dont mean that people shouldnt worry about being caught, but that for the purposes of discussion theres not much to talk about there.

What other reasons do you see besides those three i listed?

discussing morals is like discussing which porn star is hotter...no one will agree on anything and you won't change anything

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Originally posted by SmoothCorn
the patent system is totally different. If you try SELLING somebody eles's idea, then yea, you are in trouble.

And like Mancora said, there is no point in discussing whether this is legal or not. Obviously piracy is illegal. We are trying to discuss the morals here.

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Alright, let's talk morals. Do you think it is morally "Okay" to take advantage of peoples' many hours of work put into a product, which others pay for, but you don't, for some reason?

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Originally posted by Colossus
That is a very good point...

I find it lame and lack of intelligence if people think that interlectual property means nothing. That they can pirate it anytime they want, they were never going to buy it...

If you were never going to buy it, you wouldnt of wasted your time in downloading it! Just another lame excuse by some lame kid...

We might as well steal cable, satellite services, telephone and other items which are not a tangible object.

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"If you were never going to buy it, you wouldnt of wasted your time in downloading it! Just another lame excuse by some lame kid..."

Using that logic one shouldnt download anything unless they mean to buy it, including demo's... i mean if someone wasnt going to buy it why would that person have downloaded it in the first place?

They are trying to make it illegal in canada, but so far the judge says its like going to the library.

Colosus, people like you are so p*ssy whipped with the threat of going to jail in america you really are clueless. There are degrees of seriousness to crimes. piracy is not theft, well not a serious theft anyway. I would say its a lot closer to video taping television shows to robbing a bank. But anal retentive preachers think differant. pfft.. if i found a bag of money i wouldnt hand it in either what a crook i am. You all should check out suprnova forums, there are more posts in one day then 6 months here so I know I cant be alone in this.