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Everytime YOU post something you hurt my head..So I consider it more then rude on your part..Quote:
Originally Posted by wh666-666
Here you are comparing computer systems WITH AN OS on em against just an OS....
I forget ...What was your point again:confused:
So you are saying people will pirate anything that costs more than the efforts required to obtain it illegally. That is a piss poor attitude that totally ignores human characteristics such as honesty and honor. I'd like to have a database containing all of the world's greatest music, but I wouldn't ever consider stealing it. Same with a Ferrari.
An owner of any property, intellectual or not, has the right to defend it and insure that it is used according to any license granted to others. People who steal for pleasure are not fit for society.
1) You're hanging out with the wrong people wh666-666....I don't know any one that would steal....Quote:
1) The other point is, regardless of MS's effort and expense or any other issues, if someone looks at a product that costs a weeks wages, they'll probably pirate it.
2) so arguing with me about human nature is a bit pointless,
2) Ya got that one right - good for you.
wh666-666, the cost for the average joe is rolled into a premade system from dell. Dell pays next to nothing for their mass licenses which is passed on to the consumer.
I like how you quote the ultimate edition of 7 and then build a pos computer to put it on LOL. I could just as easily build a powerhouse computer and then put home edition on it and say "hey look, it the os was only 5% of the cost...)
People that are tech savvy enough to pirate Windows 7 are smart enough to take part in the incentives MS has. The OEM edition of premium costs 100 dollars. Introductory offers were 75 dollars. Student deals were 30 dollars. There are many more legit ways to get it on the cheap rather than walking into walmart and getting raped.
Windows is really no more or less a proprietary operating system than is OSX. The big difference is that Apple only ostensibly allows installation of it's OS on it's own computers. You can't access Microsoft's source any easier than you can Apple's. As for proprietary, they both run on the industry standard x86 ISA and nothing else excluding older versions of OSX (PowerPC) and the IA-64 versions of Windows 2000/2003/2008. I'm would be surprised if Microsoft drops IA-64 support before too long, it just never took off.Quote:
Originally Posted by Geforce255
I'm sorry, but if you look at it purely from the OS alone, nothing touches OSX. Windows 7 goes a long way to making Windows a better place, but Microsoft is still pretty far behind in key usability errors.
The Dock is still marginally better than Windows 7's improved Task Bar and Expose is still light years ahead of Flip3D. When it comes to managing system memory, OSX is again a lot better than Windows. That's not much of a problem anymore though, everyone can afford masses of system memory and should be running a 64-bit OS.
The funny thing is that both operating systems (Linux has ext4) are missing modern file systems. Apple completely dropped the ball when it didn't ship 10.6 with ZFS. Why they dropped it I don't know, but I'm guessing that Apple will get to a modern file system a couple years before Microsoft ever gets around to doing it.
Linux is a great server operating system, Linux is a great embedded operating system, Linux is a horrible desktop operating system. The only reasons to run Linux on a desktop are because you're administrating Linux servers, you're a software geek, you're a security geek. That's about it. Any standard program outside of Firefox and OpenOffice (if you could call that a standard) won't run on it. If you want a mostly-POSIX (as of 10.5 OSX is fully compliant) compliant desktop operating system, get a Mac.
You contradicted yourself regarding Apple. If OSX can only run on Apple hardware, then it does not run on industry standard hardware. AFAIK hardware must have an Apple fingerprint to install OSX. That makes the hardware non-standard.
Considering that I've had OSX running on non-Apple hardware, it can't be that difficult. The main thin required is EFI. Last time I check, x86 was the industry standard and Apple is running them.
I must have misunderstood you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nater
I was reading here and there that the MSDN version (the one the pirates/hackers are using) also has an expiry date. Can anyone confirm?
MSDN has every version of Win 7 for download and I've used most. AFAIK none have an expiration, and they continue to be active even if you do not renew your subscription.Quote:
MSDN has keys to download so I don't see any pirate connection. I thought that most of the pirates were using the RTM version from the summer.
Thanks. Who knows then. Most are calling them MSDN and a few are calling them RTM. The bottom line is that MSDN dont have an expiry.
Wait, I just wanted to make sure but isn't technet software meant for development purposes only? So it would be illegal to use it in one's home would it not?Quote:
Originally Posted by ua549
NM, I just went over to look at their licensing agreement and I'm buying this tomorrow with their current promotion of 28% off. I was confusing this with MSDN licensing which is for devs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nabby
Any Technet subscriber that has downloaded any Microsoft OS isn't going to have to worry about it expiring. As for the pirated versions, who knows. I don't pirate Windows. Photoshop? Sure, but not Windows. An operating system allows a lot of attack surface, anyone willing to risk being without critical updates is dumb. Saving a hundred bucks on a license is small potatoes compared to what will happen when a particularly vicious botnet snags your credit card number.
The versions of Windows 7 that are expiring are the RC versions, both one and two.
True, very true. I know people who have used the old original unhacked XP Pro version and then updated to SP1, 2, and 3. Nowadays, you can get the full version online. It's hacked quite a bit. I have read where people are *****ing about the newer pirated versions. There's all sorts of talk now too that you don't have to pay for Windows 7, just download it online. Initially, there were links to MSDN downloads for the different versions of Windows 7. But, if you go and see the comments on the torrent sites, people aren't too happy now with their install, if they're able to install it at all. I just happened to see many comments saying that the MSDN version had an expiry and I was just curious.
And like my rep at my local PC builder store told, me. Why take the risk with the hacked version of Win 7 when you can buy the legal licensed version of Win 7 Pro for under $150?
ua549 convinced me -- if you have just two computers, MSDN is too good a deal to pass up. With the online coupons it's available for $250 and includes any version of Windows 7 with many licenses and Office 2010 coming soon, as well as all the other interesting stuff to play with. I subscribed and now it is a must have for me.
I built a couple extra machines out of spare parts just to try out some different Win 7 versions and now those rigs are folding 24/7. And the bonus is I turned the heat off downstairs because all my computers keep it nice and warm. :D
Anyone with Windows 7 who chooses to use XP mode gets a free license to use XP in the VM.
ua549, I found that extremely useful.Quote:
Originally Posted by ua549
No dual boot, just a windowed XP mode that has network connections to all my devices and can run legacy stuff like HP networked TWAIN based scan and fax software, and of course old games for an old gamer. :D
I use it to run my scanner because it doesn't have any drivers for Vista or Win7.
I simply have a shortcut on my quick start bar for scanning. There is no need to even start a VM.
Uh..... You're actually saying Windows and all MS products aren't proprietary? LOL. You don't understand the word "proprietary"....Quote:
Originally Posted by Geforce255
From the Merriam-Webster online dictionary:
2 : something that is used, produced, or marketed under exclusive legal right of the inventor or maker; specifically : a drug (as a patent medicine) that is protected by secrecy, patent, or copyright against free competition as to name, product, composition, or process of manufacture
Just change "patent medicne" to MS software and you'll see what I mean.
Here's a link to definitions of proprietary software from Google.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&d...e&ved=0CAYQkAE
Also, MS doesn't keep anything unified in the computer world. They do their best to make sure their software won't interact with other OS's. MS is the biggest breaker of standards that there is, and they do it purposely.
Gary, next time engage your thinking cap before your search engine.
We all know that Windows is a copyrighted proprietary product of Microsoft. Your long diatribe on that obvious point makes it even more painfully clear that you missed the entire point of his post.
Windows will run on a HUGE range and combination of computers, parts, peripherals. Apply a little combinatorial math and the possibilities are mind boggling.
Macs cannot even come close. They had a chance once upon a time and then they killed Power Computing.
Ummmm..... Who is running a Mac? Not me.Quote:
Originally Posted by RealBeast
Debian, which I use, runs on many more architectures than Windows does. Windows runs on x86 hardware. It's pretty much all it will run on. Debian runs on 11 different hardware architectures: alpha, arm, armel, hp pa-risc, mips, mipsel, powerpc, and sparc. Plus it runs on all the basic hardware platforms Windows runs on: i386, amd64, and ia64--which only Windows server will run on. I can run a Debian desktop or server on any of the 11 platforms Debian supports. Plus, applications are plentiful in all architectures, which is not true for even the 3 architectures Windows will run on. Windows 64-bit software support is getting better, but Linux has had almost universal 64-bit software support for several years. If it's in the 32-bit repositories the chances of it being in the rest of the hardware architecture repositories is very good. I run pure 64-bit on a couple of machines and I've never run across something in the 32-bit repositories that I couldn't install on pure 64-bit installations, other than proprietary packages such as flash, which is now available.
So, yeah, Windows is proprietary all the way around. When MS first started, and up through NT 4.0, they had better hardware support than they do now. Next time have some clue as to what you're talking about.
Linux doesn't have any software I'd actually want or need to run, that's it's problem. Linux is a great server OS, it's a great embedded OS, it's a crap desktop OS. It's a crap workstation OS. It's inferior to both Windows and OSX because it has no real software. I don't give a rat's *** if it's proprietary or not.
Stuff like Premier, Photoshop, Lightroom, CATIA, SolidWorks, Pro/E, AutoCAD, 3DSMax. Those all run on Windows and don't run on Linux anymore. All I could conceive of using and that actually runs on Linux are Maya, NX, and Bibble Pro.
The fact that Debian runs on so many architectures has in it's past been more of a weakness than a strength. They've dropped 32-bit SPARC support with 5.0 and 6.0 is going to drop Alpha and ARM. I would guess that PowerPC, MIPS, and PA-RISC probably won't be far behind. I wouldn't be terribly surprised if they dropped IA-64 support too.
32 bit sparc hardware hasn't been produced since 1995. Any chance of getting vista to run on 1995 hardware. The reason I ask is Debian 5.0 came out in 2009 and 4.0 was supported until this year. Alpha is dead too. Hp made sure of that. The programs you mention are very tightly integrated into windows api, why would you try to run them in something like wine under linux? For those apps stick with windows. However it doesn't mean linux is "a crap desktop OS" or "It's a crap workstation OS". That's just not accurate. For those of us that don't need to run specialized apps like you mention, Linux is a great alternative. But I love windows, I've made a career out of supporting their "fine OS". Thats why I run linux on everything I own. My cost is about 20 cents for a cd to burn it on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nater
Specialized apps? Those are the things people buy computers to run. Why would someone pay $10k for a workstation if they can't run most of the engineering or video applications that are industry standards?
Linux is not a good desktop or workstation operating system. It's strength is the embedded market and servers. x86 and x86-64 killed the RISC workstation market, that caused most of the big engineering software vendors to stop making Unix versions (and consequently Linux versions) of their software.