strange forces at work

I remeber trying to post about the WTC attack the day after it was said that we were allowed to post about it (9/12/01 to be exact) and I saw that all the threads were being locked up. The first thing I did was to search all the forums to see if there was any message about the reasoning behind the forums being closed. I never remember seeing anything.

To those that say that there are places that we can go and post about such things elswhere, well guess what, I tried that for several hours yesterday and nowhere could I find intelligent life. All the other forums that I checked out seemed to degenerate into mindless posts such as "Allah is my @$$" or "I **** all Muslim Babies". Personally I'd rather discuss this issue with intelligent people like Arcadian, tio2k, bobgod007, garrin19, Doward, and many others (no offense if I didn't mention you) that I know from these forums that have a brain.

Compared to these other forums that I found that seemed to have no moderation whatsoever, I think that Sharky was having very good, rational discussins about the issue.

------------------
See my specs on Mr. White's Homepage

"What if...Heaven doesn't want me and Hell is afraid I'll take over?"

"The number of people watching you is directly proportional to the stupidity of your action"

Quote:

---

Originally posted by GARRIN19:
Maybe he was trying to show some respect by not leaving Arcadian out to dry, in view of all the other posters.

---

Yeah, and it sounds like maybe there were some nasty things posted after I read through the thread that would've justified deleting the topic out of hand. Of course I can't go back and check, since the thread is gone now. But if that was the case, then I'm sorry for the unkind words, Housen.

I know the mods do a good job under the circumstances. I just wish some of the mods had blocked certain "troubled" accounts during those last days leading up to the decision to close the Off Topic forums. IMO The innocent members of this community shouldn't have had to pay the price for the actions of a few troublemakers.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Housen Maratouk:
If it was feedback about the site, it belonged in the feedback forum; not in the CPU/Overclocking forum. But there will be no OT forum at Sharky's regardless of what petitions get started.

Housen

---

It astonishes me how stubborn and insensitive you can be. If it weren't for all the wonderful and intelligent forum users here, I would never come back. Thank goodness I don't have to like you to post here.

BTW, this forum used to be owned by a very caring and open group of people before your parent company took them over. Alex Ross, the previous owner, would always have an honest discussion with anyone who posted some feedback for the site. Yet now, I have seen to slow degeneration from a people oriented forum to a corporate business owned money maker. It has finally come to the point where you can make the ultimatums, and if the users don't like it, you tell them to leave.

That's unprofessional, and unbusiness-like. I know you guys get paid for every time I refresh the page, and somehow that bothers me. I don't think you deserve a penny, if you have no intention of catering to your members.

You have to learn that the customer is always right, and the way you treated AMD_Forever earlier was simply uncalled for. If he has broken the rules before, that doesn't give you the right to be less lenient in the future. As a collective group, all forum posters are paying your salary, so you are the one that should treat us with respect. It amazes me that you can act all self-rightous and pompous, like you own the power to run the forum as you would want it. This is our forum, not yours!

But feel free to lock this or delete my post. I would be very happy to send an email to Internet.com and tell them how I was disrespected by the staff on one of their Internet forums. Don't tempt me to do that, because I would be very happy to let them know just what I think of you.

Arcadian

I'm too afraid of internet.com to complain to people over housen's head.

I've been turned into internet.com's "legal department" or whatever.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Arcadian:
It astonishes me how stubborn and insensitive you can be. If it weren't for all the wonderful and intelligent forum users here, I would never come back. Thank goodness I don't have to like you to post here.

BTW, this forum used to be owned by a very caring and open group of people before your parent company took them over. Alex Ross, the previous owner, would always have an honest discussion with anyone who posted some feedback for the site. Yet now, I have seen to slow degeneration from a people oriented forum to a corporate business owned money maker. It has finally come to the point where you can make the ultimatums, and if the users don't like it, you tell them to leave.

That's unprofessional, and unbusiness-like. I know you guys get paid for every time I refresh the page, and somehow that bothers me. I don't think you deserve a penny, if you have no intention of catering to your members.

You have to learn that the customer is always right, and the way you treated AMD_Forever earlier was simply uncalled for. If he has broken the rules before, that doesn't give you the right to be less lenient in the future. As a collective group, all forum posters are paying your salary, so you are the one that should treat us with respect. It amazes me that you can act all self-rightous and pompous, like you own the power to run the forum as you would want it. This is our forum, not yours!

But feel free to lock this or delete my post. I would be very happy to send an email to Internet.com and tell them how I was disrespected by the staff on one of their Internet forums. Don't tempt me to do that, because I would be very happy to let them know just what I think of you.

Arcadian

---

Wow well said Arcadian!



------------------
Q: Why do you care?

A: You'll never know.

system Amd T bird 1.0
asus a7v 1007 bios
ibm 46.1 gig hd
256megs ram
sound blaster live
geforce 2 32meg ddr
Dsl

Hey leave Housen alone. https://www.sharkyforums.com/images/.../2005/06/4.gif

https://www.sharkyforums.com/images/...2001/09/19.gif

Can't we all just get along?






[This message has been edited by GARRIN19 (edited September 23, 2001).]

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Arcadian:
It astonishes me how stubborn and insensitive you can be. If it weren't for all the wonderful and intelligent forum users here, I would never come back. Thank goodness I don't have to like you to post here.

BTW, this forum used to be owned by a very caring and open group of people before your parent company took them over. Alex Ross, the previous owner, would always have an honest discussion with anyone who posted some feedback for the site. Yet now, I have seen to slow degeneration from a people oriented forum to a corporate business owned money maker. It has finally come to the point where you can make the ultimatums, and if the users don't like it, you tell them to leave.

That's unprofessional, and unbusiness-like. I know you guys get paid for every time I refresh the page, and somehow that bothers me. I don't think you deserve a penny, if you have no intention of catering to your members.

You have to learn that the customer is always right, and the way you treated AMD_Forever earlier was simply uncalled for. If he has broken the rules before, that doesn't give you the right to be less lenient in the future. As a collective group, all forum posters are paying your salary, so you are the one that should treat us with respect. It amazes me that you can act all self-rightous and pompous, like you own the power to run the forum as you would want it. This is our forum, not yours!

But feel free to lock this or delete my post. I would be very happy to send an email to Internet.com and tell them how I was disrespected by the staff on one of their Internet forums. Don't tempt me to do that, because I would be very happy to let them know just what I think of you.

Arcadian

---

very well put.

------------------
"You beat me once, shame on you, you beat me twice, shame on me..."
-Slash from chrono trigger-

We have rules, and they're enforced fairly and evenly... and will continue to be. If you are not happy with that, I am sorry. You posted OT in a topical forum, so it got closed. You then began another OT topic, a petition, in the same forum... and that got closed/deleted. If you have feedback or site-specific posts to make, use the feedback forum; that's what it's there for.

I have nothing for respect for Alex and the former Sharky staffers, whether or not he/they and I do things differently; but the rules in the online communities have not changed since SharkyForums was created, when I worked with Alex to get it going and staffed. At the time, I was in charge of online communities across internet.com sites, one of which was Sharky Extreme... now I'm also in charge of Sharky Extreme itself.

As I've said in the past, I hope most of you will agree that we offer you a lot for a price of nothing. The moderators, admins and I put in countless hours (including our Sundays) for little to no additional reward beyond the satisfaction it brings us to do so. And we're not demanding respect, though I think we've earned it... but we do require that people follow the rules. And if they cannot, then yes they are dealt with accordingly.

If such members (AMD or otherwise) wish to discuss that privately, it will remain a private matter. But if they begin implying publically that they are being singled out unfairly when they have clearly been given numerous chances and continue to be part of the community, then yes that might get a public response.

The WTC/Pentagon/Airline tragedy is one that shook us all and will continue to. As I said when I asked mods to let you guys discuss it in the first few days, it will remain a part of not only our past, but our present. But the attempt to let people share their concerns and thoughts with each other yet again result in the same baseless attacks that had resulted in OT being closed in the first place. So I followed the lead of another editor and announced that we'd be going back to no OT.

We're a computing site. And while our forums, and staff, are made up of human beings with numerous needs and thoughts and concerns, about this recent tragedy and other issues, we cannot be everything to everyone. So if you want to discuss things unrelated to computing in any way, then you should seek out other places in which to do so, as other members have and as I have, myself. And when you want to discuss issues related to computing, I hope you'll agree that there are few better places online at which to do so than at SharyForums.

Take care,

Housen

------------------
Housen Maratouk
Managing Editor,
Sharky Extreme and Online Communities
internet.com
[email protected]

[This message has been edited by Housen Maratouk (edited September 23, 2001).]

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Housen Maratouk:
We have rules, and they're enforced fairly and evenly... and will continue to be. If you are not happy with that, I am sorry. You posted OT in a topical forum, so it got closed. You then began another OT topic, a petition, in the same forum... and that got closed/deleted. If you have feedback or site-specific posts to make, use the feedback forum; that's what it's there for.

I have nothing for respect for Alex and the former Sharky staffers, whether or not he/they and I do things differently; but the rules in the online communities have not changed since SharkyForums was created, when I worked with Alex to get it going and staffed. At the time, I was in charge of online communities across internet.com sites, one of which was Sharky Extreme... now I'm also in charge of Sharky Extreme itself.

As I've said in the past, I hope most of you will agree that we offer you a lot for a price of nothing. The moderators, admins and I put in countless hours (including our Sundays) for little to no additional reward beyond the satisfaction it brings us to do so. And we're not demanding respect, though I think we've earned it... but we do require that people follow the rules. And if they cannot, then yes they are dealt with accordingly.

If such members (AMD or otherwise) wish to discuss that privately, it will remain a private matter. But if they begin implying publically that they are being singled out unfairly when they have clearly been given numerous chances and continue to be part of the community, then yes that might get a public response.

The WTC/Pentagon/Airline tragedy is one that shook us all and will continue to. As I said when I asked mods to let you guys discuss it in the first few days, it will remain a part of not only our past, but our present. But the attempt to let people share their concerns and thoughts with each other yet again result in the same baseless attacks that had resulted in OT being closed in the first place. So I followed the lead of another editor and announced that we'd be going back to no OT.

We're a computing site. And while our forums, and staff, are made up of human beings with numerous needs and thoughts and concerns, about this recent tragedy and other issues, we cannot be everything to everyone. So if you want to discuss things unrelated to computing in any way, then you should seek out other places in which to do so, as other members have and as I have, myself. And when you want to discuss issues related to computing, I hope you'll agree that there are few better places online at which to do so than at SharyForums.

Take care,

Housen

---

The m8s right..I was on the site on the 11th they let ppl discuss the tradegy,and it was discussed too.When they got closed,this was a pre-planned thing.They told us they would be closing all OTs...and some ppl still say they havent seen it!it was @ the very top of the page!You just didnt show enough attention and clicked your way thuroughuhu (argh https://www.sharkyforums.com/images/.../2002/01/1.gif ) thru it!It said plainly and clearly that we would be able to discuss it however,OT's would be closed on <forgot the date>.Everybody had their chance to tell their feelings,which i personally believe everyone has,and they got closed!The dude has one good point.This is a computer/hardware/mouse site!If you wanna go talk bout the WTC disaster,do like what many are doing,and go to an elsewhere site!There are like a bazillion forums there on the topic,anything from conspiracy theories to err..anything..

However Housen,we're not asking for your sundays..Its completly ur choice to give ur sundays into this,since its your ego.We(i mean i,for example)show respect to anyone who put their effort in this site and really appreciate it,but i think that we should get equal amount of respect.After all its us that keeps the site alive and running.
am i wrong?
what site is a site w/o visitors..?

------------------
"If there is a possibility of several things going wrong, the one that will cause the most damage will be the one to go wrong.
Corollary: If there is a worse time for something to go wrong, it will happen then."
Big man...Murphy

Quote:

---

Originally posted by coolent:

However Housen,we're not asking for your sundays..Its completly ur choice to give ur sundays into this

---

<sarcasm>
Okay, on sundays we won't moderate the forum.
</sarcasm>

As long as people are posting here, you will need moderators to watch over the site. So unless we close down the forums on sundays then we have to keep an eye on them then.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Klashe:
<sarcasm>
Okay, on sundays we won't moderate the forum.
</sarcasm>

As long as people are posting here, you will need moderators to watch over the site. So unless we close down the forums on sundays then we have to keep an eye on them then.

---

Gee there seems be a whole lot of moderators if im not seeing thing double.Only one can work half the the time on sundays every month or so..well throw all this away doent make any sense but,you have to admit it..it isnt *really* working..its like a hobby,and you choose to give your time to it.
Any replies to this,and i would like to remind u the time spend,regardless of the day,by the =MEMBERS=
today was sunday,and i spent well over 5hours today.



------------------
"If there is a possibility of several things going wrong, the one that will cause the most damage will be the one to go wrong.
Corollary: If there is a worse time for something to go wrong, it will happen then."
Big man...Murphy

Quote:

---

Originally posted by coolent:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Klashe:
<sarcasm>
Okay, on sundays we won't moderate the forum.
</sarcasm>

As long as people are posting here, you will need moderators to watch over the site. So unless we close down the forums on sundays then we have to keep an eye on them then.

---

Gee there seems be a whole lot of moderators if im not seeing thing double.Only one can work half the the time on sundays every month or so..well throw all this away doent make any sense but,you have to admit it..it isnt *really* working..its like a hobby,and you choose to give your time to it.
Any replies to this,and i would like to remind u the time spend,regardless of the day,by the =MEMBERS=
today was sunday,and i spent well over 5hours today.

---

Actually if you look on the main page, you'll see that there are in most cases, only two moderators per forum.

And actually yes it is a form of a hobby, however for moderators it is work. Especially in situations like this. Members don't have to worry, they just post. We have to read every single post and make sure it's in line with the AUP, if it's not, decide what to do with it and contact that member, etc etc etc. Well that's speaking for myself, don't know if any other moderators feel this way.

------------------
Duke of the OC Crusaders

System Specifications.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Mandorallen of Molynnr:
Actually if you look on the main page, you'll see that there are in most cases, only two moderators per forum.

And actually yes it is a form of a hobby, however for moderators it is work. Especially in situations like this. Members don't have to worry, they just post. We have to read every single post and make sure it's in line with the AUP, if it's not, decide what to do with it and contact that member, etc etc etc. Well that's speaking for myself, don't know if any other moderators feel this way.

---

point taken.


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GO GO POWER RANGERS,MIGHTY MORPHIN' POWER RANGEEEEEERS!

[This message has been edited by coolent (edited September 23, 2001).]

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Mandorallen of Molynnr:
Actually if you look on the main page, you'll see that there are in most cases, only two moderators per forum.

And actually yes it is a form of a hobby, however for moderators it is work. Especially in situations like this. Members don't have to worry, they just post. We have to read every single post and make sure it's in line with the AUP, if it's not, decide what to do with it and contact that member, etc etc etc. Well that's speaking for myself, don't know if any other moderators feel this way.

---

Moderating is a voluntary choice that certain members of this community choose to do or not to do. The time and effort they put into it is solely at their discretion (no offence intended to any moderators, but it is plainly obvious who devotes more time then others to that task). Sapasion and FaTs gave up their positions here at the forums when they felt they couldn't devote sufficient time watching the forums. The point is that the job is voluntary. If you feel you cannot do a decent job as a moderator or feel that you're going through undue pressure for a job with no monetary reward then give up the position or don't take it. No one is forced to become a mod and as such any efforts you guys put into this site is on your own accord.

As for administrators, you guys do get paid but remember that, again noone is forcing you, or internet.com to acquire control over sites so numerous that it can't watch over them during normal business hours. For every site you acquire, your paycheck goes up, so don't blame us for that.

Housen, I do have the utmost respect for the management hierarchy (if not so much the people composing this hierarchy), and as such I will honor your request because as you mentioned, this is a free service.

The point I think was being made originally was that the manner in which recent threads have been dealt with wasn't exactly in the most respectful manner. The people of this community do have a right to express their opinions and again you have the right to express your opinions and asert any actions as you may so see fit. However, again, I did and do have issues with how the forums have been structured and regulated of recent.

MoM, I by all means I think you've done a wonderful job keeping the forums in line, but of recent, I think you, Moridin and a handful of others have been the exception rather then the rule (which is unfortunate). Keep up your good work and try to be an example for the rest of the hierarchy here at the forums.

Also, Housen, I work at a major company that provides telephone service for about a third of the United States, I certainly will not complain about coming in on Saturday mornings (when I work during long breaks) to test some CLEC program or work on some Java so that people very much like yourself can have telephone service. Don't pin your choice in professions and all that it may entail on the people whom you watch over.

-bobgod007

------------------
Count Baron of the OC Crusaders

Housen:

On the front page of Sharky Extreme, there is a link to an Internet.com site about the September 11th terrorist attacks. Please remove it; this is a "computing site."

On the left hand advertising bar for Internet.com, I see links for "Advertising Info," "Corporate Info," "Be a Commerce Partner," and "Place Yellow Page Ad." These do not seem appropriate on a computer hardware enthusiast website.

On the top of this page, I see a link for "Consumer Electronics." Please consider removing this as well, I'm worried it may expand the reach of this site too much, trying to force it to become "everything for everyone."

I'm surprised how much off topic material has managed to slip into even editorial content. It's really diluting the site.

------------------
www.nweb-design.com <-- Send me a client, I'll send you a 5% finder's fee

"You have just destroyed one model XQJ-37 nuclear powered pansexual roto-plooker....and you're gonna have to pay for it." -- Frank Zappa

Boy I sure hear a lot of people complaining about a service that is free! As Housen mentioned, this is not something you paid for, and as such, you can not demand anything. If you don't like it, leave.


As far as moderators, what is the status of new mods? I don't have nearly the time that I used to in the summer, but if we need someone to just watch over the boards in general, I can help out. I assume that the position is non-paid, which is fine by me. If I can help let me know: [email protected] and I will tell you my real email address and info.

------------------
May we never see an old friend
With a new face.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by hobbes2112:
Boy I sure hear a lot of people complaining about a service that is free! As Housen mentioned, this is not something you paid for, and as such, you can not demand anything. If you don't like it, leave.


As far as moderators, what is the status of new mods? I don't have nearly the time that I used to in the summer, but if we need someone to just watch over the boards in general, I can help out. I assume that the position is non-paid, which is fine by me. If I can help let me know: [email protected] and I will tell you my real email address and info.

---

Step 1: Kiss ***
Step 2: Ask about moderator position

Quote:

---

Originally posted by nkeezer:
Housen:

On the front page of Sharky Extreme, there is a link to an Internet.com site about the September 11th terrorist attacks. Please remove it; this is a "computing site."

On the left hand advertising bar for Internet.com, I see links for "Advertising Info," "Corporate Info," "Be a Commerce Partner," and "Place Yellow Page Ad." These do not seem appropriate on a computer hardware enthusiast website.

On the top of this page, I see a link for "Consumer Electronics." Please consider removing this as well, I'm worried it may expand the reach of this site too much, trying to force it to become "everything for everyone."

I'm surprised how much off topic material has managed to slip into even editorial content. It's really diluting the site.

---

Where's there's critism there's jolly ole' Nick, preaching about how the AUP should be cut (or trimmed) and how moderation should be abolished, with his snide remarks about anything possible (You jump on me for incorrect grammer....)

While i'm no fan of the way in which the site has gone, but all considered, it's doing well.

Your comments on the banners are, what's the word i'm looking for? Ah yes, the most idiotic pieces of tripe i must've read in a while, IMHO. Get off that high throne on which you think you sit on and get rid of the big head of yours.

I think that's all i wanted to say, sorry if i in any way offended you with any of my above comments, sometimes the truth hurts.

*Wanders off*

------------------
Pray for those inolved in the current horric happenings in America. God knows they need it

I'm sorry the point of my comments was lost on you Scuttle.

------------------
www.nweb-design.com <-- Send me a client, I'll send you a 5% finder's fee

"You have just destroyed one model XQJ-37 nuclear powered pansexual roto-plooker....and you're gonna have to pay for it." -- Frank Zappa

It's okay, I guess me and my little mind should go and play with my little dollies? https://www.sharkyforums.com/images/...2002/02/10.gif

------------------
Pray for those inolved in the current horric happenings in America. God knows they need it

Hmmm. I see your points. However the banners don't need mods because they're static. OT is a living entity however. Has to be on watch 24/7. All that and the close-to-lawsuit situations with understaffed mods, who are selected by tech-ability/social intelligence. A rare find...not in my current arsenal of capabilities.

Now that is honesty!

------------------
May we never see an old friend
With a new face.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by GARRIN19:
Hmmm. I see your points. However the banners don't need mods because they're static. OT is a living entity however. Has to be on watch 24/7. All that and the close-to-lawsuit situations with understaffed mods, who are selected by tech-ability/social intelligence. A rare find...not in my current arsenal of capabilities.

---

Honestly, I hate to say it, but I think we could have even worse mods in the future. We've been blessed thus far with many great mods (sapasion, Moridin, FaTs, MoM etc.), but we might come to a point where the qualitity here is depleted, the mods will simply be those who want the position for name sake and then it will be time for us to move on.

Fortunatly, I don't think that time is upon us. We can still forge forward and work towards improving the transparency of this sight without loosing basic regulation.

------------------
Count Baron of the OC Crusaders

Quote:

---

Originally posted by hobbes2112:
Now that is honesty!

---

_____________________________________________

Straight up hobbes. I wouldn't even try to earn any respect as a mod without several K under my belt. Sure I could do it well, but not now. Not going to happen, not overnight.

Also, I think the best way to deal with Arcadian's post, if it needed any action was at worst move it to Article/Site Feedback. Deleting the thread was beyond any logic.

------------------
Count Baron of the OC Crusaders