BUYING A NEW PC-- WHICH PROCESSOR???

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Originally posted by jmil24:
I know this question has probably been visited, re-visited, and visited again, but I really need an answer to it.

I'm in the market for a new PC. Ok, for high-end graphics AND text applicatins, which is more effective AND more reliable- the NEW AMD T-BIRD 1100 or the INTEL 1000? Obviously with the higher clock speed the T-bird is faster but is it just as compatible with software in comparison Intel processors?

I've read the T-BIRD wins in graphics but then again slows down in other Windows applications because these programs are not optimized for 3DNOW! Is this true??? Overall, and ignoring price, do you have any recommendations as to which is the MORE EFFECTIVE PROCESSOR to buy?

I'm am not building the unit but will instead be buying- and like any other user want the "best" processor outthere.

Can anyone help me with this??? - Thanks.

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Alright, I've heard enough pro-Intel propaganda at this point. I'm a system builder, and I've got 2 AMD Athlon systems and a Celeron system, which I just upgraded from a 300a@450MHz to a FC-PGA Celeron 633@790MHz (soon to be 950MHz when my golden orb arrives). I've got to tell you that the AMD systems are MORE reliable than the Abit BX6 2.0-based Celeron system. Even if my Athlon 650@750MHz (through FSB at 115MHz=153MHz memory bus using generic PC133 SDRam) ever does crash, which is practically never, I can always ctrl-alt-del and shut down the offending program, and the system is still stable enough to continue using until I can reboot. This is NOT the case with any Intel machines I've ever owned (and I've had quite a few). Frankly, the AMD machines are an excellent deal, they're faster, cheaper, and MORE, yes read it right, MORE stable than ANY Intel system I've EVER seen. They run everything from Unreal Tournament to Photoshop 5 to sound sampling and DVD ripping software like a bat out of hell, they're rock solid stable, and the 200MHz EV6 bus beats the crap out of the pitiful Intel 133MHz bus. If there is a compatibility issue between a Via chipset and a certain card, I'll bet you I can name a problem on a given Intel mobo for every one that exists on an AMD-based system. Don't listen to any of these people who don't actually have an AMD system. They're just speculating, and regurgitating heresay. It's true that the Durons are fragile, but all microprocessors are. They're not meant to be stressed, dropped and ****ed around with. Just put it into the computer as per the instructions, CAREFULLY install the heatsink/fan combo of your choice and LEAVE IT ALONE. That's good advice for an AMD or Intel processor. If you like what you've heard about the Thunderbird or the Duron, then go ahead and do what millions have already done, and buy one with confidence. I promise you won't regret it.

mpitts, you have been of great help https://www.sharkyforums.com/images/.../2005/06/5.gif - very few people have told me before this forum that AMD's are "stable" and that you didn't use "special" software to have the CPU run properly.
I will probably end up going with AMD...

anubis, would you say PIIIs are just as "unstable" as the not-so-good Celeron you discussed? I'm not surprised that Intel isnt perfect either.

From this forum I have yet to hear anyone with major complaints about AMD. Any other opinions/comments???

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Originally posted by jmil24:
mpitts, you have been of great help https://www.sharkyforums.com/images/.../2005/06/5.gif - very few people have told me before this forum that AMD's are "stable" and that you didn't use "special" software to have the CPU run properly.
I will probably end up going with AMD...

anubis, would you say PIIIs are just as "unstable" as the not-so-good Celeron you discussed? I'm not surprised that Intel isnt perfect either.

From this forum I have yet to hear anyone with major complaints about AMD. Any other opinions/comments???

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I'm glad to help out whenever I can. Good luck with your purchase.. I am sure you won't regret it!




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"Everyone knows the best bands are affiliated with Satan."

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Originally posted by jmil24:
mpitts, you have been of great help https://www.sharkyforums.com/images/.../2005/06/5.gif - very few people have told me before this forum that AMD's are "stable" and that you didn't use "special" software to have the CPU run properly.
I will probably end up going with AMD...

anubis, would you say PIIIs are just as "unstable" as the not-so-good Celeron you discussed? I'm not surprised that Intel isnt perfect either.

From this forum I have yet to hear anyone with major complaints about AMD. Any other opinions/comments???

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Hmmm...Here's the deal:
1. AMD's problem is VIA; It's true
2. On the buisness side; I will only give Developers and Desktop Publishing clients P3 Workstations. Because they're always doing something stupid which CAN cause non-intel(inluding Alpha) systems blowup!; It's true.
3. So, you should wait for the P4; It's true.

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Tech GOD

Zero, sorry I "offended" you. I was referring to the T-BIRD Athlon, NOT the k6-2.

I also stated I do not side with either AMD or Intel, and that I have never owned an AMD. Choosing AMD over Intel is my personal decision, and I don't need (nor does anyone else) your negative.

Thanks for criticizing a statement you completely misunderstood.

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Originally posted by Diamond*Viper:
I can vouch for AMD. I just built my own computer a few weeks ago. I got a Thunderbird 800mhz. The only problem I have is that my Fan/Heatsink isn't transfering heat well...but this problem can be avoided by getting a good heatsink/fan. For your money AMD is the better choice.

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this ones just for u Viper.
there's a small square pice of silver tape inbetween the heatsink and the heatplate(on my slota cpu,(could be simillar on socket ones)
that seems to have just been applied lightly, when i rubbed it down with my thumb,my cpu temp drop from around 32-34 to 28-29 degrees celcius,thats huge, and just a silly manufacturing flaw.i always check little things like that out, it always happens in everything u buy,i can even see a wad of heat compuond bettween my pcu and the heat plate that looks like it 1 mm thick,sure i can make that better.but thats seems to be fine for now.

As for Intel Vs Athlon,hmm,it really depends on the app,doesnt it?i would believe the athlon has the edge over intel mhz for mhz in raw number crunching apps,heh, but what do i know,1gig is a bit beyond my means.have intel caught up?

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Originally posted by jmil24:
So if I purchase a PC with a T-BIRD in combination with a GF2, I may experience problems? Can something be done to correct this?

I read new drivers were provided to correct the T-BIRD/GEFORCE/2 incompatibility problems. Is this true?

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like Mpitts says,good 300w power supply will should fix it. i have a slot A 700, GeForce SDR(the most power hungry one there is)and a 250w power supply.
it does cause me problems,AGP 3.3v sits on 3.12v at the best of times, i get critical voltage warnings in windows apps,i suspect its what hangs me in more graphic games,but cant say for sure yet.
Thank you again Mpitts for your input, i will turn off fast writes and stick to 1x agp
the TnT viper i have in it now, runs at not much more tho. 3.20v so im also suspecting the mobo to some degree.
its a MSI K7Pro Slot A 6195.
would think they'd have addressed that issue by now.


[This message has been edited by GB_Cobber (edited September 20, 2000).]

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Originally posted by GB_Cobber:
like Mpitts says,good 300w power supply will should fix it. i have a slot A 700, GeForce SDR(the most power hungry one there is)and a 250w power supply.
it does cause me problems,AGP 3.3v sits on 3.12v at the best of times, i get critical voltage warnings in windows apps,i suspect its what hangs me in more graphic games,but cant say for sure yet.
Thank you again Mpitts for your input, i will turn off fast writes and stick to 1x agp
the TnT viper i have in it now, runs at not much more tho. 3.20v so im also suspecting the mobo to some degree.
its a MSI K7Pro Slot A 6195.
would think they'd have addressed that issue by now.


[This message has been edited by GB_Cobber (edited September 20, 2000).]

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Just a quick question.. Have you tried to bump your IO Voltage to 3.5? That is becoming pretty standard on new MB's, considering the power hungry video cards that continue to come out. Try it out and see if it helps.



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"Everyone knows the best bands are affiliated with Satan."

I just bought my first amd system about 3 weeks ago... a 1ghz tbird and geforce2 card. I was more than a little apprehensive as I'd also heard about the so called incompatabilities and such. I would have gone P3 except that 1) I would have had to wait another 3-4 weeks for availability and 2) I'd have paid 50% more.

What can I say, my system is every bit as stable as my old P2 400. And over twice as fast. https://www.sharkyforums.com/images/.../2005/06/5.gif

Havent experienced a single anomaly yet, and my system is pretty tweaked out... all the bios performance settings enabled, agp 4x etc etc. I'm very very happy. My *only* concern (and concern is too strong a word) is that the cpu does run alot warmer than my old 400. Of course I'm sure the 1ghz P3 runs a warmer as well. Just be sure to get a decent heatsink (heck be sure to get decent components all around) and you'll be fine.

Go for the 1.1 athlon. Get good components. You *wont* be disappointed.

The one caveat to this msg is if you plan on running a W2K system. Most of the stability problems I've read of/heard of are reputed to ccur on W2K systems. VIA chipsets are supposedly still a little finicky with some of the current W2K drivers out there.

John, its great to hear from someone who owns an AMD T-BIRD. You've experienced no "slowdowns" whatsoever??? Even now, would you recommend the 1.1 TBIRD over the 1 GHZ PIII?

Nice to learn a new user of AMD has had none of the more or less phantom "compatibility" issues rumored.

Can you really say the AMD is the "better" processor or is just equal to Intel? -Thanks.

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Originally posted by jmil24:
John, its great to hear from someone who owns an AMD T-BIRD. You've experienced no "slowdowns" whatsoever??? Even now, would you recommend the 1.1 TBIRD over the 1 GHZ PIII?
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Can you really say the AMD is the "better" processor or is just equal to Intel? -Thanks.

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Slowdowns? Lol! Uh, no. In every single aspect my new pc makes my old P2 look like a dog. I can only describe it as 'stupid fast'.

In terms of real world performance, both cpus are pretty much equal, clock for clock (each seems to be slightly slower/faster in particular benches). Of course, you cant overlook the fact that the fastest intel cpu you can get (if you're lucky) is 1ghz vs 1.1 ghz for the tbird (and the 1.1 ghz tbird is cheaper too boot).

What would I do if I was in your position? Knowing what I know now, and experiencing what I've experienced now (as a first time amd owner), I'd get the 1.1 ghz tbird without a second thought PROVIDED I was running W98/ME. If I was going to be using W2K right off the bat, I'd probably go with the 1ghz P3.

What would I do if I was in your position? Knowing what I know now, and experiencing what I've experienced now (as a first time amd owner), I'd get the 1.1 ghz tbird without a second thought PROVIDED I was running W98/ME. If I was going to be using W2K right off the bat, I'd probably go with the 1ghz P3. [/B][/QUOTE]


John, thanks once again. We will be using Win ME for the new PC and shouldn't at anytime work with W2K, so I assume there wouldn't be a conflict.

To say you would get the newest TBIRD "without a second thought" is pretty strong, and so I trust your word (along with everyone else's).

One last question- are you a big user of games/dvds??? If so, was the performance the same here (I assume it was)?

Good luck with your AMD and thanks for any help.

From what i have heard, the Athlon Cpu's get hotter than crap, go with a retail P3 and Cusl2 board, youll be set.
ozz

But would heat be a problem if I bought a PC from a manufacturer?

i dont know, they seem to use cheap heatsink/fans, uhh, consider building your own, its definatly worth it, buy from 2 places max, and make sure they have a good warentee, or get a p3, they are cooler!! or both

ozz

i dont know, they seem to use cheap heatsink/fans, uhh, consider building your own, its definatly worth it, buy from 2 places max, and make sure they have a good warentee, or get a p3, they are cooler!! or both

ozz

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Originally posted by jmil24:
But would heat be a problem if I bought a PC from a manufacturer?

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You would probably have a CPU that ran HOTTER than if you bought a decent HSF. OEM's use cheap heatsinks and generally some type of air ducting which is WAY less effective than a good Alpha or GlobalWin. https://www.sharkyforums.com/images/.../2005/06/5.gif




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"Everyone knows the best bands are affiliated with Satan."

There is one thing that bothers me about all of your posts. There are hardware compatability issues with the AMD processors. PERIOD. AMD knows it and so do you. That is why there is a list of approved hardware that AMD put out. AMD processors do not kick *** or blow away Intel processors. Whomever it was here that compared his new 1gig tbird to his PII400 is in need of a labotamy. "It's twice as fast!!!!!!!" NO **** SHERLOCK! That is like saying my 21 speed mountain bike is faster than that tricycle I had when I was 3. Software compatability is another issue. AMD seems to have few or fewer problems than they did in the past.

Face it, if you want to come to work or home and turn on your computer and never have to worry about what it's going to do then you should buy an Intel based system.

Hoss

You make a good point Hoss. I'm just trying to get opinions from everyone here before I make a final decision, that's all. I think its clear I've accomplished that.

Of course there's no definitive answer to this but if what you're saying is true, then AMD still "has problems". Some say that's true, some will disagree with you. I started this thread to have various views on the matter.

I hope that will continue...

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Originally posted by Hoss:
There is one thing that bothers me about all of your posts. There are hardware compatability issues with the AMD processors. PERIOD.

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True, but so are there with Intel.

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Face it, if you want to come to work or home and turn on your computer and never have to worry about what it's going to do then you should buy an Intel based system.
Hoss

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... or a AMD Athlon system.

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Originally posted by Hoss:
There is one thing that bothers me about all of your posts. There are hardware compatability issues with the AMD processors. PERIOD. AMD knows it and so do you. That is why there is a list of approved hardware that AMD put out. AMD processors do not kick *** or blow away Intel processors. Whomever it was here that compared his new 1gig tbird to his PII400 is in need of a labotamy. "It's twice as fast!!!!!!!" NO **** SHERLOCK! ... Face it, if you want to come to work or home and turn on your computer and never have to worry about what it's going to do then you should buy an Intel based system.

Hoss

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Try not to take my posts out of context Hoss. I was in no way proclaiming or insinuating that athlons are 2x as fast as similar or P3's. I said in plain english that they were basically equal clock for clock. Capiche?

As to the 'incompatabiliites'... hey if you want to read about intel incompatabilities go to your favorite hardware webpage and scan the msg boards. You wont have to look hard or long. Lets face it, a certain number of people are going to have problems with both platforms. Fact is, aside from the obvious increase in speed, there is no difference between my P2 and athlon box. All my hardware works (cdr, raid, geforce2, sblive, ethernet card) all my software runs. Just like it did on my old box. Besides, I'm in a better position to speak of this than you. I happen to have two boxes loaded with software and hardware, one amd, one intel. I'm speaking from firsthand experience. Im guessing you're not. Clear enough?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Johnny Rotten:
[B] Try not to take my posts out of context Hoss. I was in no way proclaiming or insinuating that athlons are 2x as fast as similar or P3's. I said in plain english that they were basically equal clock for clock. Capiche?

Thanks for clarifying John...Is there a final answer to my original question, after 45 posts- Which is "better" for my needs, AMD or Intel?

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Originally posted by jmil24:

Thanks for clarifying John...Is there a final answer to my original question, after 45 posts- Which is "better" for my needs, AMD or Intel?

[/B]

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I believe 45 posts worth of people are trying to tell you to make your own choice. After all you've read isn't it obvious there's no clear winner? Pick whichever one you want, for any or all of the reasons people have been kind enough to share with you. Are you expected someone who hasn't answered yet to magically give you the wise and mystical answer to your question? If someone says Intel, you're not convinced, if someone says AMD, you're not convinced. Just go to pricewatch, click on the first link you see, and buy the first product you see, because otherwise, this can go on forever....

No, I'm not expecting a "magic answer". I thought I'd just throw that question outthere and see what I got in response...

Obviously there is no "final" answer to this so I'll eventually decide on one of the two. This isn't the end-of-world, but it's still an important decision.

Thanks again everyone. I appreciate all of your help.

just use common sense! - get either chip - they are about the same in speed for most apps - the important thing is not the chip!, its the motherboard! - esp. AMD - just get abit/asus and you'll be fine!.