The Official NFL Thread

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Originally Posted by md1198p

New Englanded cheated..its no wonder they always seemed to have the ability to pull out all those 3 point games, and seemed to make just the right "adjustments" in the second half.

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You know... it makes you wonder...

Just how big of a factor HAS this made in NE's success?!?

I remember... many moons ago... where Miami lost a game at the end because a linebacker stepped in front of a Marino throw... as if by divine intervention... and that sealed the game for NE.

In the end... Miami cried fowl... said that NE was reading the plays before the snap. And the body language of the NE players seemed to have supported that claim.

In a tight game... how many times could have something like this been the slight difference that made the game?

How extensive is the problem? Do other teams do it?

If it turns out that NE has won many games for doing this... I hope that the league comes down hard on them. Not just penalizing them a few draft picks. There has to be a deterence.

I also remember in the late 90's in one of Denver's Super Bowl years... that it was discovered that they had violated the salary cap. They were fined a measley amount.

I couldn't help but think that even this could have had major implications on their SB run that year. Who knws who they may have not been able to sign had they followed the cap like everyone else?

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Originally Posted by Spank_Me_Hard

You know... it makes you wonder...

Just how big of a factor HAS this made in NE's success?!?

I remember... many moons ago... where Miami lost a game at the end because a linebacker stepped in front of a Marino throw... as if by divine intervention... and that sealed the game for NE.

In the end... Miami cried fowl... said that NE was reading the plays before the snap. And the body language of the NE players seemed to have supported that claim.

In a tight game... how many times could have something like this been the slight difference that made the game?

How extensive is the problem? Do other teams do it?

If it turns out that NE has won many games for doing this... I hope that the league comes down hard on them. Not just penalizing them a few draft picks. There has to be a deterence.

I also remember in the late 90's in one of Denver's Super Bowl years... that it was discovered that they had violated the salary cap. They were fined a measley amount.

I couldn't help but think that even this could have had major implications on their SB run that year. Who knws who they may have not been able to sign had they followed the cap like everyone else?

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What really sucks is there is no way to know. You cannot just replay those games. If it was a widespread thing they where doing, it would have a huge effect on the way the game played out. It could help every phase of the game, from there O-lineman knowing where the blitz was coming from, QB knowing who had single coverage, backs knowing who to pick up in blitzes, and receivers knowing who had what zone and being able to set up in the soft spots. And thats just assuming it was the defensive calls they where spying on.
They beat the Rams in the superbowl by a last second field goal, and only won by 3 against Philly. It would have only taked a little help to have made a difference in both those games.
They always did look better after halftime in their tough games. The homer in me seems to remember that in the 2004 game against Philly, they had a tough time in the first half moving the ball, but scored like 3-4 times in a row after halftime...hhhmmmm...

So is this really a big deal, or are the news outlets just propping it up?

Its interesting, like you guys are saying, how big of a deal is it? Small time, like maybe a team goes 3 and out because NE knows the plays, or like NE wins a playoff game they shouldn't have...

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Originally Posted by spamjedi

So is this really a big deal, or are the news outlets just propping it up?

Its interesting, like you guys are saying, how big of a deal is it? Small time, like maybe a team goes 3 and out because NE knows the plays, or like NE wins a playoff game they shouldn't have...

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New England won a LOT of close playoff games....i'm just saying...

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Originally Posted by md1198p

New England won a LOT of close playoff games....i'm just saying...

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yea I'm with you. I mean what a tarnish on what was/is an incredible run of success. I wish there was a way to know how much this sort of thing affected it. Belichick is supposed to be one of the best coaches of all time basically, right? What about now? In my mind it already is throwing in doubts.

I think it's dishonorable and clever at the same time.

But why use it in game 1 vs the Jets? NE is for sure going to be a contender this year, so why run the risk of being caught?

I feel bad for the players, If this does come out as true I bet most of the players had no idea about it. They are still working their asses off and will be tarnished over something they had no control over.

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Originally Posted by r'aggro

I think it's dishonorable and clever at the same time.

But why use it in game 1 vs the Jets? NE is for sure going to be a contender this year, so why run the risk of being caught?

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Because I think that if done right... it'd be almost impossible to catch. Not too sure exactly how (or even *if*) NE got busted.

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Originally Posted by md1198p

What really sucks is there is no way to know. You cannot just replay those games. If it was a widespread thing they where doing, it would have a huge effect on the way the game played out. It could help every phase of the game, from there O-lineman knowing where the blitz was coming from, QB knowing who had single coverage, backs knowing who to pick up in blitzes, and receivers knowing who had what zone and being able to set up in the soft spots. And thats just assuming it was the defensive calls they where spying on.
They beat the Rams in the superbowl by a last second field goal, and only won by 3 against Philly. It would have only taked a little help to have made a difference in both those games.
They always did look better after halftime in their tough games. The homer in me seems to remember that in the 2004 game against Philly, they had a tough time in the first half moving the ball, but scored like 3-4 times in a row after halftime...hhhmmmm...

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Yea. I agree. Nobody knows the extend to how much this has played into NE's success.

If it's as extensive as you alluded that it can be... I daresay that the team with the worst talent and coaching in the league could easily beat the best team in the league if they were experts at cheating. I mean... it'd be easy if you think about it.

There are obvious things which are allowed in the NFL... coaches analyzing film or photos in the coaching booths as to what the other team is doing. Filem that gets watched every week as to teams tendencies and bread and butter plays.

But decrypting the plays that the coaches are calling in realtime? Wow.

And with the tecnology available today... you could conceivably have an anonymous "fan" up in the nosebleed seats... who are expert lip readers... with a pair of binoculars watching the opposing coaches... and an open communication line to your own coaches (bluetooth cell... walkie talkie... whatever) telling them what the opponent is calling for plays. Then having the coach comminicating the proper play to the players on the field... who probably have no idea that their play has been dialed in to the opponents play selection.

And how would you be able to catch that exactly? I think that it'd be near impossible.

I think the damage is already done. Belechik's statement in the nature of a half baked apology sure doesn't clear it up.

Well, belecheat just got fined $500k and the pat's $250k as well as losing the 1st round draft if they make the playoffs and 2nd and 3rd round if they don't make the playoffs. story here

the punishment struck me as sever at first, but after thinking about it a bit, I wonder if it is enough. I wonder if he should have been suspended for a few weeks.

The real punishment in my mind is the the view by the general public that the Patriots have the stigma of sharing Barry Bond's asterick with him!:eek:

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Originally Posted by spamjedi

the punishment struck me as sever at first, but after thinking about it a bit, I wonder if it is enough. I wonder if he should have been suspended for a few weeks.

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I think what they did, with a 4 week suspension, would have been perfect.

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Originally Posted by md1198p

I think what they did, with a 4 week suspension, would have been perfect.

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I'm starting to really agree with that. I think he should have been suspended.