Which way to go: p4 1.6a O/C'd, or Xp1900+

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Newbie-Overclocker


I have built 4 systems in the last month with the 1.6A and all hit 2.4ghz with one reaching 2500mhz all on air with the stock HSF, I run 2.43ghz right now 100% stable on the retail HSF, My temps never get above 45c with the retail HSF.

1.6A is cheaper
1.6A is cooler
1.6A overclocks better
1.6A is faster
1.6A is more stable :)

easy choice.

---

I agree with top 3. The 2 bottom ones are not very vaild. Since a OCed 1.8ghz chip will most likey best a NW 2.4ghz. (2.4 is the average OC of 1.6a)

So not really an easy choice, I'm sure if it was, everyone would have an Intel inside. lol :p

I agree with AMD Soldier that its not such an easy choice. As you can see from my previous posts, I think it is a tough call, but I'm leaning towards the P4, for previously stated reasons.

Quote:

---

I agree with top 3. The 2 bottom ones are not very vaild. Since a OCed 1.8ghz chip will most likey best a NW 2.4ghz. (2.4 is the average OC of 1.6a)

---

I don't agree that an Athlon XP1900+ @ 2200+ will outperform a P4 1.6A @ 2.4Ghz.

Consider this:
1. Stock P4 2.4Ghz outperforms 1.73Ghz Athlon XP 2100+ by around 5%.
2. P4 1.6A @ 2.4Ghz would in turn outperform a stock P4 2.4Ghz by around 5%, due to its 600FSB vs 400FSB on the P4 2.4Ghz.

Now, taking that into consideration, it would mean a P4 1.6A @ 2.4Ghz would outperform a stock Athlon XP 2100+ by around 10%. Will a 2200+ be able to bridge that 10% gap? I think not. :p

Quote:

---

Originally posted by azns_kickass
I agree with AMD Soldier that its not such an easy choice. As you can see from my previous posts, I think it is a tough call, but I'm leaning towards the P4, for previously stated reasons.



I don't agree that an Athlon XP1900+ @ 2200+ will outperform a P4 1.6A @ 2.4Ghz.

Consider this:
1. Stock P4 2.4Ghz outperforms 1.73Ghz Athlon XP 2100+ by around 5%.
2. P4 1.6A @ 2.4Ghz would in turn outperform a stock P4 2.4Ghz by around 5%, due to its 600FSB vs 400FSB on the P4 2.4Ghz.

Now, taking that into consideration, it would mean a P4 1.6A @ 2.4Ghz would outperform a stock Athlon XP 2100+ by around 10%. Will a 2200+ be able to bridge that 10% gap? I think not. :p

---

Hehe I saw this one coming. ;)

Well it's really hard to say for sure because of what mobo you choose or what ram, and so forth.

You gave a nice example there, but what if the Athlon is unlocked? With an EPoX 8K3A/+ mobo and some nice Samsung or Corsair PC2700 ram you obtain an easy 190 fsb setup, even up to 220fsb. Equip with to an 1.8ghz AXP and I think you'll get some very nice results.

Now this just makes it all the more complex. :D

Quote:

---

Originally posted by AMD Soldier


Hehe I saw this one coming. ;)

Well it's really hard to say for sure because of what mobo you choose or what ram, and so forth.

You gave a nice example there, but what if the Athlon is unlocked? With an EPoX 8K3A/+ mobo and some nice Samsung or Corsair PC2700 ram you obtain an easy 190 fsb setup, even up to 220fsb. Equip with to an 1.8ghz AXP and I think you'll get some very nice results.

Now this just makes it all the more complex. :D

---

Heh! I saw that coming as well! :p

What mobo and ram? Well, Asus P4S533 (SiS645DX) and DDR333, thats what. That kind of setup should overclock very nicely. (Asus P4S533 review at http://www.amd3d.com/CPU3D/review/p4s533/index.htm)

So, you say up to 220 FSB for Athlon XP eh? Hmmm, with the 1/5 PCI divider on the EPOX 8K3A+, 220FSB would equal 44Mhz PCI!! :eek: Will need some super HDDs and PCI and USB devices with that kind of PCI bus speed! ;)

I think 190FSB is realistic, 220FSB isn't. :)

So, now we have a 190(380 effective)FSB Athlon XP 2200+ vs a 600FSB P4 2.4Ghz.

Hmmm, thats a tough one indeed! :confused: Without benchmarks, I'd be inclined to call that a draw.

However, you can't deny that the P4 1.6A IS cheaper and runs cooler. :p
Especially when you take into account that the 1.6A can reach 2.4Ghz with the stock cooler, whereas an Athlon XP @ 2200+ would require extra cooling.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by AMD Soldier


Hehe I saw this one coming. ;)

Well it's really hard to say for sure because of what mobo you choose or what ram, and so forth.

You gave a nice example there, but what if the Athlon is unlocked? With an EPoX 8K3A/+ mobo and some nice Samsung or Corsair PC2700 ram you obtain an easy 190 fsb setup, even up to 220fsb. Equip with to an 1.8ghz AXP and I think you'll get some very nice results.

Now this just makes it all the more complex. :D

---

lol most people don't unlock their AXP CPU because its very hard (don't say otherwise because even good overclockers have many problems with it) and the poster of this thread dosn't seem like a power overlcocker, 190-200mhz fsb seems abit wishfull thinking, I mean I'm sure you can get to those speeds but it would take alot of work and hand picked top quality parts that alone blows the price of the AXP system out the door.
Anandtech or tom's did a review of a AXP with a 333mhz FSB on average it was 2-3% faster, I doubt that high FSB would make anything other then 3Dmark and sandra any faster.

As for stabilty VIA, SIS, and ALI chipsets for AMD chips are average at best, AMD made some good chipsets its to bad they droped support for them before they launched, You can't compare a VIA chipset to a INTEL/sis chipset they are way better, untill AMD builds their own chipsets and supports them they will never have the stabilty that INTEL dose.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by azns_kickass
Indus, it has been good to have an intelligent discussion with you, something I don't always get in other forums. :rolleyes:

More often than not, I have AMD fanatics screaming "AMD RULES! END OF STORY!" with no facts to back up their comments. These kind of ignorant fools who think they know all but in fact know nothing really gives me the shits! :mad:

So, once again Indus, I thank you for keeping the discussion civil and intelligent, and I'm sure we will have many more intelligent discussions in future. I look forward to them. :D

---

Thank you azns. :)

Btw getting back to the discussion.. 220 FSB is realistic. The Epox 8k3a+ is awesome for overclocking.

Take a look at this please:

https://www.sharkyforums.com/images/.../2002/06/7.gif

Now I don't want to take the risk to unlock an Athlon but this is one mighty example of what it can do. That would more than match a P4 533 with PC1066 Rambus in performance I think. :)

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Indus


Thank you azns. :)

Btw getting back to the discussion.. 220 FSB is realistic. The Epox 8k3a+ is awesome for overclocking.

Take a look at this please:

https://www.sharkyforums.com/images/.../2002/06/7.gif

Now I don't want to take the risk to unlock an Athlon but this is one mighty example of what it can do. That would more than match a P4 533 with PC1066 Rambus in performance I think. :)

---

Indus, lets get realistic here. How many P4s do you see run at 600Mhz FSB? A LOT How many Athlon XPs do you see running at 220(440Mhz DDR) FSB? Very few. Honestly, do you think the average overclocker can reach a 220FSB with an Athlon XP? No way Jose! ;)

I know the Epox board is a very good overclocker, but it would be rare for HDDs, PCI devices and USB devices to work at such a high PCI speed. Like Newbie-overclocker said, you will have to hand pick parts that can handle such high PCI speeds, PLUS you have to unlock the multiplier.

Frankly, I say its simply not worth the effort, when you can just as easily get the same performance by overclocking a P4 1.6A to 2.4Ghz, plus it would be cheaper and quieter as well. :)

Lets put it this way - 'Average overclocker Joe' can easily push a P4 1.6A to 2.4Ghz. 'Average overclocker Joe' would have a hell of a time pushing an Athlon XP to 220FSB! :D

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Indus


Thank you azns. :)

Btw getting back to the discussion.. 220 FSB is realistic. The Epox 8k3a+ is awesome for overclocking.

Take a look at this please:

https://www.sharkyforums.com/images/.../2002/06/7.gif

Now I don't want to take the risk to unlock an Athlon but this is one mighty example of what it can do. That would more than match a P4 533 with PC1066 Rambus in performance I think. :)

---

I have seem the P4 with a 800mhz fsb sure the chip can do it infact all chips can but they won't because it takes serious cooling and modding along with lots of cash and handpicked parts :)

A AXP with a 420mhz fsb provides the AXP with about 3.4gigs of bandwidth vs 4.2 of the P4 533 which the P4 needs and gains serious performance with and the AXP dose not as much.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by azns_kickass


Indus, lets get realistic here. How many P4s do you see run at 600Mhz FSB? A LOT How many Athlon XPs do you see running at 220(440Mhz DDR) FSB? Very few. Honestly, do you think the average overclocker can reach a 220FSB with an Athlon XP? No way Jose! ;)

I know the Epox board is a very good overclocker, but it would be rare for HDDs, PCI devices and USB devices to work at such a high PCI speed. Like Newbie-overclocker said, you will have to hand pick parts that can handle such high PCI speeds, PLUS you have to unlock the multiplier.

Frankly, I say its simply not worth the effort, when you can just as easily get the same performance by overclocking a P4 1.6A to 2.4Ghz, plus it would be cheaper and quieter as well. :)

Lets put it this way - 'Average overclocker Joe' can easily push a P4 1.6A to 2.4Ghz. 'Average overclocker Joe' would have a hell of a time pushing an Athlon XP to 220FSB! :D

---

Maxtor can handle those FSB's just fine. :)

As far as why 220 FSB is not common.. its because Americans are lazy and don't want to unlock the Athlon. I don't blame them.. I'm one of them. Then again AMD doesn't advertise like Intel does, atleast here in the states. I mean if you go to an average place here.. I bet you 90% of people haven't heard of AMD.

Its the sad truth. :( There'd be more of a competition if people were aware of this but they aren't.. so you have to settle for one example. :(

Btw, as I said before, Maxtor Hard Drives can handle high FSB's just fine. Most others (WD's/ Seagates/ IBM's) start failing after 170. :(

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Newbie-Overclocker


I have seem the P4 with a 800mhz fsb sure the chip can do it infact all chips can but they won't because it takes serious cooling and modding along with lots of cash and handpicked parts :)

A AXP with a 420mhz fsb provides the AXP with about 3.4gigs of bandwidth vs 4.2 of the P4 533 which the P4 needs and gains serious performance with and the AXP dose not as much.

---

I think that's with LN2. You can't do that in a home environment. :(

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Indus


Btw, as I said before, Maxtor Hard Drives can handle high FSB's just fine. Most others (WD's/ Seagates/ IBM's) start failing after 170. :(

---

High FSB speeds don't make any difference to PCI or AGP devices, it's the motherboard PCI/AGP divider's that limit OC'ing, as it relates to the high FSB speeds.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by azns_kickass


Heh! I saw that coming as well! :p

What mobo and ram? Well, Asus P4S533 (SiS645DX) and DDR333, thats what. That kind of setup should overclock very nicely. (Asus P4S533 review at http://www.amd3d.com/CPU3D/review/p4s533/index.htm)

So, you say up to 220 FSB for Athlon XP eh? Hmmm, with the 1/5 PCI divider on the EPOX 8K3A+, 220FSB would equal 44Mhz PCI!! :eek: Will need some super HDDs and PCI and USB devices with that kind of PCI bus speed! ;)

I think 190FSB is realistic, 220FSB isn't. :)

So, now we have a 190(380 effective)FSB Athlon XP 2200+ vs a 600FSB P4 2.4Ghz.

Hmmm, thats a tough one indeed! :confused: Without benchmarks, I'd be inclined to call that a draw.

However, you can't deny that the P4 1.6A IS cheaper and runs cooler. :p
Especially when you take into account that the 1.6A can reach 2.4Ghz with the stock cooler, whereas an Athlon XP @ 2200+ would require extra cooling.

---

The top fsb I seen was 228fsb. I have gotten mine to 193mhz stable and if I had better ram I could of want higher for sure. If your ram can take it, more likey than not you'll get a high fsb with that mobo.

Oh and about it being cheaper, well round $8 bucks, hehe not by much. And you could get a 1800 AXP for much cheaper, not like you'll notice a difference in speed anyways. I'd much rather just get a cheap 1700 or 1800 and unlock that, much better value I think, or hell even get a 1ghz Duron. Believe it or not, mine performs as an AXP 1600-1700. Heck I can't tell the difference between that Duron and my AXP 1800, only in divx encoding can I notice a small difference.

But back to the topic at hand... Running cooler... like I said, they don't get that hot, sure the Tbirds were, but that's not the point. I consider 36-40C for stock cooling good temps, and isn't that hot for me. And an OCed 1900 @ 2200 w/ 1.85v would run aroud 45-50C with stock cooling. Not bad at all, now put in a $20 Volcano 7 in there and the temps will drop back down to under 43C. Now retail packages cost around $15-25 more than the OEM's on average, and if the Volcano 7 costs $20, than theres no difference in price, thus paying more for extra cooling, is invalid. ;) Sure you can get even more expensive cooling if you'd like, but it's not required, nor needed really.

Newbie-Overclocker, unlocking the AXP is just a bonus. 1900 AXP(12x133=1600) and to get to 2200 AXP level you'd only need 150fsb (12x150=1800). So even without unlocking the cpu you can hit that easily if the cpu will go that far. Heck with an AX-7 and decent fan or even an Volcano 7 and with 2v+ into the cpu I'm sure it could go higher than that.

I do admit that if you don't unlock the cpu, you will generally get better results with the 1.6A system than the AXP, but when the AXP is unlocked the story changes a bit. I don't think theres a clear winner here, but I know what I'd do. Rather pick up a 1800XP for less bucks and get nearly the same performance for less than the P4 or the AXP 1900. :p

Thanks guys, all of your points have been great!


In the end, I think im gonna go with a P4 1.6, 1.7 or 1.8, depending on the prices on june 1st.


Now, I have most of my components picked out. But could someone please recommend the best mobo and ram to use for my application? Also, in 3 or 4 months if I buy another p4 processor that is 533 mhz bus compatible, will it be able to fit into the mobo im going to buy, or are the new 533 mhz procesors gonna have a new socket or slot type? I want my computer to be future upgradeable.... Then again, by that time, the hammer will likely be out, and im gonna invest in that the minute its financially acceptable.


Thanks again guys, great thread!

When the AMD T-bred is released, do you think the overclocking will be like the NW? Cause the NW is based on .13 micron and the T-bred will be also, so the AMD will run much cooler like the NW does.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by dRage
When the AMD T-bred is released, do you think the overclocking will be like the NW? Cause the NW is based on .13 micron and the T-bred will be also, so the AMD will run much cooler like the NW does.

---

I don't know if it'll run cooler than the Northwood but it'll run cooler than the Athlon XP for sure. :)