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It is flawed logic.Quote:
Originally posted by asmox
it may very well be flawed logic, it only takes on some semblance of stealing and becomes illegal when you download things and keep them without ever paying.
It's always illegal and its always stealing.
As I stated whether or not you are stealing hardcopy if you have the software (which is what they are really selling, not the cd) then you are costing that company the labor they paid to develop that software.
You're right, it is illegal.Quote:
Originally posted by OpStar
It is illegal. It is stealing.
Your opinion doesn't matter because you live in a country that has laws and doesn't ask your opinion.
Spin it all you want.
You are a thief, period.
Whether or not you steal a hard copy of the game is irrelevant. If you play the game without paying for it unless there is an authorized demo, you are stealing.
It is against the law. Why do you think forums do not allow discussion about pirating? BECAUSE ITS AGAINST THE LAW.
Your opinion of the law doesn't matter. Laws are not for interpretation. Your "outweighing" it against other laws is ridiculous and unfounded.
The hardcopy aspect of the game is simply a means to get the product to the end consumer, we all know you are paying for the software, which is what you are stealing. So your entire "hardcopy" drivel is sad at best.
You are a thief, just accept it and quit trying to rationalize it.
asmox, it is ILLEGAL, no question about it. You are mixxing up your moral and legal arguments, they are two entirly different things. You can not use a moral argument to find the bounds of a legal law.
IE, a law is on the books to kill every single red headed person. Morally wrong? yes it is. Legally wrong? nope.
Morals are used in the creation of laws and figuring out which ones to obey and not to obey. They are NOT used to determine whether an act is illegal or not.
k, you win. you know it's time to draw things to a close when your opponent resorts to personal attacks.Quote:
Originally posted by OpStar
...
better watch out though, i might steal that pedestal right from underneath your feet. BAM, you'll never know what hit you.. that's just how good of a thief i am. *flex*
*hits head against wall*Quote:
Originally posted by asmox
k, you win. you know it's time to draw things to a close when your opponent resorts to personal attacks.
better watch out though, i might steal that pedestal right from underneath your feet. BAM, you'll never know what hit you.. that's just how good of a thief i am. *flex*
I know.Quote:
Originally posted by asmox
k, you win.*flex*
I didn't resort to personal attacks.
If you don't like the title, don't do the deed.
If you killed someone, I'd call you a murderer; you steal so I call you a thief.
Now your opinion on pirating notwithstanding (I do respect your opinion) that doesn't change the law, or the fact that what you are doing is illegal.
In most of these thread people seem to get stuck up on that and not move onto bigger questions.Quote:
Originally posted by OpStar
call you a thief.
what you are doing is illegal.
The illigality of it is a no brainer.
looks like your sarcasm detector's malfunctioning again.Quote:
Originally posted by OpStar
I know.
except i don't.Quote:
Originally posted by OpStar
you steal so I call you a thief.
i pay for all the media i keep. i'm not taking any revenue away from the company by trying games out before buying them. Mancora may be somewhat correct about me randomly interchanging moral and legal arguments, so i'll give you this much - downloading media may be inherently illegal, but you will never convince me that it is stealing if you pay for the media afterwards. there's just no way. if i decide to keep it and i BUY the damn thing, how in the world is that stealing? "unintended try-before-you-buy"? maybe. stealing? nope. even if i don't like the media and get rid of it, you still can't say that i'm costing the company anything because i could've easily borrowed the media from somebody and came to the exact same conclusion (to not buy it). or did that also become illegal when i wasn't looking?
...stop...mixxing...legal..and..moral...arguments...
Joyriding is illegal, even though you don't keep the car ;)Quote:
Originally posted by asmox
looks like your sarcasm detector's malfunctioning again.
except i don't.
i pay for all the media i keep. i'm not taking any revenue away from the company by trying games out before buying them. Mancora may be somewhat correct about me randomly interchanging moral and legal arguments, so i'll give you this much - downloading media may be inherently illegal, but you will never convince me that it is stealing if you pay for the media afterwards. there's just no way. if i decide to keep it and i BUY the damn thing, how in the world is that stealing? "unintended try-before-you-buy"? maybe. stealing? nope. even if i don't like the media and get rid of it, you still can't say that i'm costing the company anything because i could've easily borrowed the media from somebody and came to the exact same conclusion (to not buy it). or did that also become illegal when i wasn't looking?
You are never going to sway my opinion.
The act of downloading the media is illegal. People get sued, pay fines, go to jail, P2P networks get shutdown, etc and so on.
What you do after the fact to clear your conscious is your own decision, but it doesn't make right the illegal act you committed.
Listen:Quote:
Originally posted by asmox
you will never convince me that it is stealing if you pay for the media afterwards. there's just no way. if i decide to keep it and i BUY the damn thing, how in the world is that stealing? "unintended try-before-you-buy"? maybe. stealing? nope. even if i don't like the media and get rid of it, you still can't say that i'm costing the company anything because i could've easily borrowed the media from somebody and came to the exact same conclusion (to not buy it). or did that also become illegal when i wasn't looking?
I don't have to convince you. It just IS.
There are laws written that say in our country IT IS ILLEGAL.
Your opinion, morals, upbringing, rationalizing etc etc etc DO NOT CHANGE THE LAW.
YOU are not our judicial or legislative system. You have no say. THE COUNTRY AND ITS LAWMAKERS DO NOT CARE ABOUT YOUR OPINION OF THE LAW OR HOW YOU INTERPRET IT.
IT IS ILLEGAL, PERIOD. THE END. CASE CLOSED.
It is illegal, it is stealing, if you do it, you are a thief.
I don't care if you do it and buy the cd/game thirty seconds later.
You are still breaking the law.
End of discussion.
phew. good thing you got that out of your system.Quote:
Originally posted by OpStar
Listen:
I don't have to convince you. It just IS.
There are laws written that say in our country IT IS ILLEGAL.
Your opinion, morals, upbringing, rationalizing etc etc etc DO NOT CHANGE THE LAW.
YOU are not our judicial or legislative system. You have no say. THE COUNTRY AND ITS LAWMAKERS DO NOT CARE ABOUT YOUR OPINION OF THE LAW OR HOW YOU INTERPRET IT.
IT IS ILLEGAL, PERIOD. THE END. CASE CLOSED.
It is illegal, it is stealing, if you do it, you are a thief.
I don't care if you do it and buy the cd/game thirty seconds later.
You are still breaking the law.
End of discussion.
i was borderline agreeing with you about its illegality, if you had taken a bit of time off from your fanaticism to actually read. though the stealing bit.. nope, it's purely a TBYB performed in a not so commercial fashion.
*sigh*Quote:
Originally posted by asmox
phew. good thing you got that out of your system.
i was borderline agreeing with you about its illegality, if you had taken a bit of time off from your fanaticism to actually read. though the stealing bit.. nope, it's purely a TBYB performed in a not so commercial fashion.
Its illegal, which you agree with.
It isn't a try before you buy, because the manufacturers don't want you to. If they did, they'd release a demo. Its their right to choose not to.
Its also stealing.
Get over it.
I can't believe you are trying to say its illegal but not stealing, lol, what a joke.
downloading media is intrinsically considered illegal because the general consensus is that people do it with malicious intentions. however, as you probably know by now, not everybody's intentions are so malicious.. which is why i was trying to present scenarios in which it isn't so illegal (and also is not stealing), but i guess that's pointless to bring up with you.Quote:
Originally posted by OpStar
*sigh*
Its illegal, which you agree with.
It isn't a try before you buy, because the manufacturers don't want you to. If they did, they'd release a demo. Its their right to choose not to.
Its also stealing.
Get over it.
I can't believe you are trying to say its illegal but not stealing, lol, what a joke.
the people that pirate software, and then keep it without ever paying for it, are stealing.. absolutely, 100% completely agree with you. now i hate to bring up the same old argument for the 100th time, but here it is..
there is no thievery. whether you borrow an album/game from a friend in order to decide whether or not to go out and buy it, or you download an album/game in order to decide whether or not to go out and buy it.. so long as you actually do go out and buy it after deciding that you like the material, there is nothing wrong with it. if you don't like the material, you trash it or return it to whoever you borrowed it from.. the end result is exactly the same. so what's the difference? one way is considered legal, and one way isn't. though neither way is stealing.Quote:
Originally posted by asmox
yeah, assuming the game requires the cd to play, your friend won't be able to play while you have the cd.. but that isn't the point. the point is, you're trying a product before buying it. if you borrow the game, and you don't like it, you will not buy it - the developers/distributors do not get your money. if i download a game, and i don't like it, i will not buy it - the developers/distributors do not get my money. now, if i borrow OR download the game, and i do like it and decide to keep it, then i will go out and buy it.. money goes where it's supposed to, and everybody is happy.
so there you have it, "illegal" but not stealing. putting a THIEF ALERT label on what i described above is incredibly myopic and stubborn.
Guys, either give up, or check your base definitions against each other. This is just stupid, its like two little kids saying yes it is no it isnt.
well i used to play halo before it was actually out when all the servers were cracked and i bought a cd key off my friend for $2. btw some online games you can play with a pirated versions but i could never ever get around battle.net ... but they have cracked servers, even a ladder for cracked servers