Any MMO where you're constantly in a group?

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Originally Posted by GetCarter

say hypothetically you wanted to explore a low-sec zone in EVE and someone pods you just because they are a ****, then you're screwed unless you spent all the money for one of those *** *** clones. I condone PvP, hell i'm right there with ganking in WoW, but the most damage that it should do to your character is extreme emotional humiliation.

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Well the stakes are higher in EVE. You should always have insurance on your ship and a good clone waiting for you if you bite it, that way you will always be either refunded the money you spent on your ship or retain all the skills you had when you died. HOWEVER!! If you have any cybernetic implants they are GONE once you die. Those things can be expensive as hell, so if you have one (or some) and you're going into a dangerous area you had better have protection.

Actually, for that matter, you should only go into low-sec space when you have a buddy alongside you so you can at least fight off a single troublemaker that might be trolling the area.

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Originally Posted by yoLNEr

You can always get your stuff back... Thats the beauty of free pvp.

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It kinda hard to kill someone to get your stuff back when all your equipment is gone :p

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Originally Posted by Timman_24

It kinda hard to kill someone to get your stuff back when all your equipment is gone :p

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Thats what friends and backup equipment are for.

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Originally Posted by Gunslash

FF online is the biggest piece of crap I've ever wasted my money on.
A hooker with herpes is a better investment.....

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Half the game is INSTALLING and PATCHING. That's like 10 hours right there. You can do that over and over again.

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Originally Posted by Timman_24

Yeah real men want to be able to loot everyone's gear, that took the person 20+ days to get, when they kill them. That sure is a lot of fun for the person on the recieving end...

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That's why you don't walways wear your best gear. Unfortunately, the WoW model isn't properly adapted for a real PvP enviroment.

In UO, you would rarely see someone walking around in their best plate armor. That stuff was more like a trophey that you kept in your house, or only used when you were in an awesome group and wanted that upper edge because the stakes are high. Normally people would wear some GrandMaster crafted plate amor, and if they died, no huge loss. I had sets of GM amror in all sorts of colors. I died a lot, lol.

That's how open PvP works. You don't walk around in your best set of armor. As a result, the economy lasts a LOT longer because crafted amor is always in demand, not like in WoW where once you get to 60 and get Tier 2 armor you never need to buy anything from an armorsmith ever again.

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Originally Posted by ImaNihilist

That's why you don't walways wear your best gear. Unfortunately, the WoW model isn't properly adapted for a real PvP enviroment.

In UO, you would rarely see someone walking around in their best plate armor. That stuff was more like a trophey that you kept in your house, or only used when you were in an awesome group and wanted that upper edge because the stakes are high. Normally people would wear some GrandMaster crafted plate amor, and if they died, no huge loss. I had sets of GM amror in all sorts of colors. I died a lot, lol.

That's how open PvP works. You don't walk around in your best set of armor. As a result, the economy lasts a LOT longer because crafted amor is always in demand, not like in WoW where once you get to 60 and get Tier 2 armor you never need to buy anything from an armorsmith ever again.

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QFT.

Just as in EVE, you won't see people rolling out in an interceptor (or a large cargo ship for that matter, but nobody would be so bold...) through low-sec space by themselves, thats an invitation to get it blown the hell up.

god, eve sounds so amazing. isn't the playerbase expanding even today?

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Originally Posted by ImaNihilist

That's why you don't walways wear your best gear. Unfortunately, the WoW model isn't properly adapted for a real PvP enviroment.

In UO, you would rarely see someone walking around in their best plate armor. That stuff was more like a trophey that you kept in your house, or only used when you were in an awesome group and wanted that upper edge because the stakes are high. Normally people would wear some GrandMaster crafted plate amor, and if they died, no huge loss. I had sets of GM amror in all sorts of colors. I died a lot, lol.

That's how open PvP works. You don't walk around in your best set of armor. As a result, the economy lasts a LOT longer because crafted amor is always in demand, not like in WoW where once you get to 60 and get Tier 2 armor you never need to buy anything from an armorsmith ever again.

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Okay I gotcha, the only MMOs I've really been involved with are mostly PVE oriented. EQ, EQ2, WoW, and many other that I only played briefly. I've never been involved in a real pvp game. So, I now realize I shouldnt compare the game mechanics in the ones I have played to a pure pvp game.

I doubt I would like them anyway though. Giving such large rewards to killing people ends up making everyone a griefer. Now instead of just running back from the GY when a high level person ganks me, I now have no gear. I guess it is just not a concept that I like. ;)

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Originally Posted by thrawn86

yeah but FF requires about twelve trillion days of playtime plus leveling alts to get endgame. :/

mandatory grouping FTL.

I love the social aspect of wow. Most people who aren't in good guilds hate it. EVE also looks incredible. If I wasn't playing WoW< I'd be playing EVE.

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about 46 days logged in FFXI

rdm 70
whm 38
blm 37
bst 27
nin 20
thf 20
war 20
drk 20

And got pretty much all the sweet equip for my level range (still trying to get rare/ex earring from enm)

I would say, having played EQ from launch up to velious expansion, FFXI is much faster and has way less grind. Though maybe because i leveled my rdm beyond 50 after SE made chances to XP required from 51 to 75 compared to the old days, the empress band (XP bonus for 1.5 hours), and now Treasure of aht urghan expansion which in its zone when you have sanction you get XP bonus, but nonetheless, FFXI right now is pretty fast. ENM fights also give you awesome XP, for a fight that lasts like 5 mins top and a chance to get awesome loot, you get inbetween 1.5k to 4k+, friday for example, got 3.5k XP + an item thats worth 6.5M, we were 5 doing the enm, so thats nice money.

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Half the game is INSTALLING and PATCHING. That's like 10 hours right there. You can do that over and over again.

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Uh what? the initial patching can take a while, but so did WoW's. The 20$ FFXI package that includes zillart and chain of promethia expansion all on one DVD has pretty much all the big updates of the past years.

Heck, im complaining that SE isnt updating enough, next big update will give current jobs an upgrade, give AF armor to puppermaster/blue mage/corsair, will fix expansion bugs and more importantly, my red mage will maybe get new spells.



As for EVE, here's a post from someone else but mirrors my experience with it

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I got roped into playing it.

WoW is interesting and I still play it, but a break from fantasy stuff is always welcome. So I heard their server hit 15,000 people on it at once the other day and thought wow its doing pretty good. There's lots of content blah blah. Anyway, so I start it up.

Its confusing. lots of numbers and well, some more numbers and buttons. So I join up as a character in the same area as a friend of mine.

Now you have to understand, EVE has some very loyal players, and for the most part only they understand how the game works. People new to the game will find it as slippery as olimario's arguments. I took the tutorial and Tre/Tekopathic got me my first interview.

My first character had fallen victim to space pirates, a welcome end in that sector of space. Surrounded by people telling me to fraud the insurance system by loading my ship up, insuring, stripping, then getting it blown up. Awesome.

So my second character was on the straight and narrow. Had a convincing player name, and was focused on mining rocks. Awesome. Here I go. Interview. So I interviewed, it wasnt much, just me saying what I wanted to do. Knowing tekopathic/tre helped a bunch and they got me in to talk to the CEO, she blahed a bit and my eyes glazed over.

Already this seemed a lot like work. She explained that I would be paid hourly for my mining efforts if I participated in the corporations mining operations in various systems and that I may have a lucurative future in building things when they ask for it. Nice.

So things are going great. For a while they let me just sorta do my thing. I buy a few ships, take some funds from the corp for expendatures n what not. I NEED THAT SHUTTLE TO LOOK COOL!

One day I log on to mine. I greet everyone and start going about it. Then the corp is like hey go form a mining gang with so and so. Yeah sure no. OK they say, but they'll have to refine my minerals and just handle payment at station. Whatever.

It seemed like work, a lot of this did. The way everything was set up so I never knew what was going on unless I had a lot of power. What struck me today was this:

E-Mail to Corp:
Could someone refine my minerals in the cargo hold. Theyve been there a few days. Thanks.

Singe Friel

So a few minutes later I get a message over the public corp chat system "Hey singe, dont make requests for this stuff over corp mail, I dont want it full of junk."

I kindly replied that my minerals had been there for a few days and I had repeatedly requested the refining process. Something they generally insisted upon for the sake of greater profit.

So they shot back with more crap so I tell them ill handle things myself. I refine the **** myself, take a loss, and continue on. As soon as I dock back at the station I start going through my accounts payable/receivable (been considering a clone upgrade) when the recruiting officer (I **** you not) 'walks through my door' and begins the standard 'passive aggressive talk about your progress and possible training methods'. Awesome.

Sick of my day I logged off early. And just like a work week, I have no clue what they're gonna do with me tomorrow. Could be fired!

See, the people who play EVE are hopelessly ****ing devoted to it. Its actually really scary. I never see them offline, ever. I just wanna mine some rocks, get a big spaceship, and sell stuff. BUT NO! RED TAPE EVERYWHERE! THANKS EVE!!!!!!!!!! ****!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Well you need to remember how the levelling works in EVE. The longer you stay logged on, the more you level up, you don't necessarily need to do stuff, because a lot of it is timesink click-research-button-then-wait, this means, how can you ever hope to go up against someone who started playing EVE months before you have?

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Originally Posted by yoLNEr

silly carebears... wow pvp is designed for little girls.

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Riiight, because I don't use daddy's credit card to pay for my online time on an MMO, I don't care if all the time I spent levelling and gearing up my character is wasted by a large group of people with malicious intent.

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Originally Posted by GetCarter

Riiight, because I don't use daddy's credit card to pay for my online time on an MMO, I don't care if all the time I spent levelling and gearing up my character is wasted by a large group of people with malicious intent.

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We already went over this. If you dont want to lose your best gear dont use your best gear...

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Originally Posted by GetCarter

Well you need to remember how the levelling works in EVE. The longer you stay logged on, the more you level up

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This is not true, your levels advance even when you are logged out. Its very helpful for casual gamers and eliminates the need to grind levels in-game. And after a couple months you'll have all the skills you need for your chosen profession, you just need to realize that you're not going to be able to hop right into the game and be equal to someone whose played the game for months after a matter of days.

And Buggyloop - regarding that large quote you showed me - thats why you don't join a player corp right away! Stick with the n00b corp and let the nice people there help you until you're recruited to do something you'll like. The corp in that description sounds like crap, and that player was completely forced into it.

lineage 2.

good luck soloing anything your level once you hit 55+. Even 40+ it's pointless since you have so much downtime

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Originally Posted by yoLNEr

We already went over this. If you dont want to lose your best gear dont use your best gear...

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Too much incovenience, if I work hard for the gear I want to show it off :)