Mac thanks for all the info. Can't wait for this new chip!
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Mac thanks for all the info. Can't wait for this new chip!
Darn it! Just when I made up my mind to upgrade to the 2.4c. Now I gotta make a choice between 2.4c or 2.4 prescott. I hate it when this happens...
This is where you are slightly wrong. Technically it will cost them R&D and it could cost them a lot. How you say? If they release a chip that canabalizes Prescott sales they will incur a loss on Prescott and on Prescott's R&D. The flaw in this release is that Intel is essentially competing against itself, as at some point this processor will be compared to Prescott. What happens if the Extreme wins, and nobody moves to the Prescott wagon - complete loss of R&D for Intel added to the already skyrocketing costs of developing Prescott.Quote:
This is a Xeon. It costs Intel nothing in R&D, and it's production cost is still well under 100$. Even if they only sell a few of them Intel stands to make a profit, so what reason could Intel have to not produce this chip?.
Sure they are banking on Prescott as being their next step, but this processor could essentially stall any major Prescott advances for up to a year. Also who really wants to buy the lame duck processor when the next best thing is coming two months later. What are businesses going to say when they realize that Intel is selling them high cache underpowered Xeons (when compared to the EE) for $3000, when the consumer gets essentially the same thing, but faster for $500. It may alienate a portion of that market, especially now that there is a less expensive, and more powerful viable competitor with Opteron. Could this push people away from Intel? I belive it is possible.
If you read carefuly you will see that Intel is planning another EE P4 based on the Prescott core so rather then this new P4 EE competing vs prescott it will end up in its own market and will become a new brand of its own such as the celeron.Quote:
Originally posted by irwincur
This is where you are slightly wrong. Technically it will cost them R&D and it could cost them a lot. How you say? If they release a chip that canabalizes Prescott sales they will incur a loss on Prescott and on Prescott's R&D. The flaw in this release is that Intel is essentially competing against itself, as at some point this processor will be compared to Prescott. What happens if the Extreme wins, and nobody moves to the Prescott wagon - complete loss of R&D for Intel added to the already skyrocketing costs of developing Prescott.
Sure they are banking on Prescott as being their next step, but this processor could essentially stall any major Prescott advances for up to a year. Also who really wants to buy the lame duck processor when the next best thing is coming two months later. What are businesses going to say when they realize that Intel is selling them high cache underpowered Xeons (when compared to the EE) for $3000, when the consumer gets essentially the same thing, but faster for $500. It may alienate a portion of that market, especially now that there is a less expensive, and more powerful viable competitor with Opteron. Could this push people away from Intel? I belive it is possible.
As for R&D the only difference between this chip and the XeonMP is the packaging and thats it.
irwincur,
You might recall that the PIII Tualatin was released in the same time-frame as the early P4's. Although Tualatins were basically intended as server chips, at the time enthusiasts were buying them for game machines. That didn't hurt P4 sales, because most of Intel's mainstream processors are put into systems sold to businesses and "Dell dudes" anyway. (1.4 Ghz Tualatins are still selling for the same street price as a P4 2.6GHz 800MHz, around $200).
IMO today's situation is similar, except that Intel has tweaked and rebadged the server chip to tailor it to the enthusiast, and to generate some media buzz in the process.
They aren't planning on another EE on the prescott core, just releasing the same core at .09u.Quote:
Originally posted by Voodoo 5 5500
If you read carefuly you will see that Intel is planning another EE P4 based on the Prescott core so rather then this new P4 EE competing vs prescott it will end up in its own market and will become a new brand of its own such as the celeron.
As for R&D the only difference between this chip and the XeonMP is the packaging and thats it.
The EE is not going to be around that long. Count on it being reelased as a 3.2 on .13u and then another speed grade or 2 on the .09u process.Quote:
Originally posted by irwincur
This is where you are slightly wrong. Technically it will cost them R&D and it could cost them a lot. How you say? If they release a chip that canabalizes Prescott sales they will incur a loss on Prescott and on Prescott's R&D.
You realy think intel is so dumb as to not bench the chips before they leave the plant ensuring that the prescott shows a performance gain??? [sarcasm]I mean come on, they aren't AMD you know ;)[sarcasm]Quote:
Originally posted by irwincur
The flaw in this release is that Intel is essentially competing against itself, as at some point this processor will be compared to Prescott. What happens if the Extreme wins, and nobody moves to the Prescott wagon - complete loss of R&D for Intel added to the already skyrocketing costs of developing Prescott.
Prescott is only going to be around for about a year (tejas is on schedule to be released in Q4/04) so I doubt this.Quote:
Originally posted by irwincur
Sure they are banking on Prescott as being their next step, but this processor could essentially stall any major Prescott advances for up to a year.
This is simply the world of computers, it happens everyday.Quote:
Originally posted by irwincur
Also who really wants to buy the lame duck processor when the next best thing is coming two months later.
One major factor of XEON's you forget: SMPQuote:
Originally posted by irwincur
What are businesses going to say when they realize that Intel is selling them high cache underpowered Xeons (when compared to the EE) for $3000, when the consumer gets essentially the same thing, but faster for $500. It may alienate a portion of that market, especially now that there is a less expensive, and more powerful viable competitor with Opteron. Could this push people away from Intel? I belive it is possible.
This is why people will pay for them, and with the new .09u process dont count on large chaches (or relative to what we have seen in the past) commanding a super premium. Just look at the current line of Intel procs:
Banias 1MB
Dothan 2MB
P4 EE 2.5MB
Prestonia 1MB
All of these chips are putting large chache in to the hands of those the previously could've never afforded more than 512K.
you can get a prestonia (1MB XEON for $750 right now: googlegear )
You should read this editorial:
http://www.overclockers.com/articles830/
It'll give you a little better insight in to what Intel is reallying trying to do here (and looks like the will do quite well)
Thats what I was trying to do in the first place! :D I'd bet dimes to dollars Intel really doesnt give a D4m* whether or not they get good profits from this new proc. All they want it to do is keep Intel at the top when Athlon64s start hitting the streets. All of AMD's precious effort to grab more market shares was very VERY effectively defeated by little to no effort by Intel. As long as these EEs perform on par with the Athlon64s Intel did what they aimed to do... Now they have more time for a nice smooth release of their next proc...Quote:
Originally posted by macutty
You should read this editorial:
http://www.overclockers.com/articles830/
It'll give you a little better insight in to what Intel is reallying trying to do here (and looks like the will do quite well)
Quote:
Originally posted by macutty
They aren't planning on another EE on the prescott core, just releasing the same core at .09u.
thats off of xabitlabs.Quote:
It is exactly the positioning for different market segments that lets me believe Pentium 4 Extreme Edition processor family will not have only one model working at 3.2GHz. No doubt that Intel will later introduce faster models based on the 90nm Prescott core. In fact, if you take a really close look at the Prescott core, you will see that there is enough room on it for 256bit L3 cache bus. It is definitely not for nothing, and Prescott CPUs with L3 cache should definitely become a really in the future.
Everything is pointing to a new brand oposite of the celeron for hardware guru's.
FYI Intel has revealed that the P4 EE will work with all current P4 motherboards and it will run at the same temp as the regular 3.2 if you factor in the larger surface area this could mean huge overclocking possibilities.
Also Prescott as not been delayed and will arrive on time as it was scheduled to 2 years for the 4th quarter of 2003.
Xbit just updated their site and Intel has revealed that the Northwood P4 EE will have better gaming performance then the prescott core at the same clocks.
Oh man If its under $1500cnd im buying one of those EE chips GD!.
The Xeon MP is currently .13 and will be moved to .09u. It is also available with the identical 512KB L2, 2MB L3. AFAICT this chip IS a Xeon MP with a 800 MHz FSB rather then a 533 MHz FSB.Quote:
Originally posted by JabberJaw
From the Inq, quoting an Intel spokesman, "The chip will be produced using .13ยต technology but will later move to a 90 nanometer process."
Moridin, I wonder if this would be a natural byproduct of moving Xeon to 90 nano, or whether Intel is planning to hedge their bet against a delayed Prescott introduction (due to power consumption/heat dissipation issues reported by OEM system developers)?
That only matters if Prescott is a low volume part, which it won't be. Intel can either sell an additional Prescott, or a Pentium 4 EE. In either case their cost is the marginal cost of production. The Prescott should have the lower marginal cost but the P4 EE will likely have the higher price tag, and therefor a higher overall profit margin.Quote:
Originally posted by irwincur
This is where you are slightly wrong. Technically it will cost them R&D and it could cost them a lot. How you say? If they release a chip that canabalizes Prescott sales they will incur a loss on Prescott and on Prescott's R&D. The flaw in this release is that Intel is essentially competing against itself, as at some point this processor will be compared to Prescott.
Even if the P4EE is initially faster, there is no way that situation will continue, since it's made in a smaller process size. The .09u P4EE will certainly be based of the Prescott core (or more likely it's Xeon equivalent), so at that point it no longer mattress.