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LOL!Quote:
Originally Posted by [PinPals]Apu
Details, details...
I agree. I think that Favre will second guess his "unretirement" after getting beaten about like a pinhata...
No blocking, nobody getting open, and being forced to throw pretty much every down... a sure combination for success! LOL!
Pennington has an arm like overcooked spaghetti.
Laveranues Coles is a decent wide receiver for the Jets. He'll be much better with a decent quarterback throwing to him.
Laveranues had 1,000 yrds in 06, and in 07 he was hurt. Cotchery had 950 yrds in 06 and 1100 in 07. So they have 2 good receivers. I still figure favre will revert back to old form and throw 28 ints this season, just because it's the jets :cool:
So did a little known QB named Joe Montana.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrDigital
A cannon of an arm is nice (gives you the option of throwing passes like deep outs with less of a worry of being picked off), but over rated I think.
To me, the best ability of a QB is being able to read a defence quickly and correctly. And at that... Joe Montana was one of the best of all time. His arm strength scared nobody.
Pennington is as smart as they come. I'd welcome him on the 'Phins. He's 10x better than anybody who they have...
BTW... have been wondering about your avatar... have you given up the sauce?!?
Pennington might make a good QB coach, but he's pretty useless out there on the field IMO. Without decent arm strength he can't throw the fast slants nor the long bombs. And every day he gets older he just gets weaker.
And yeah, I'm off the sauce. Just over a month now. Being a non-drinker is as boring as I always figured it was.
I just realized that, going back to 2002, the Jet's records have been -Quote:
Originally Posted by [PinPals]Apu
2002: 9-7 (made playoffs)
2003: 6-10
2004: 10-6 (made playoffs)
2005: 4-12
2006: 10-6 (made playoffs)
2007: 4-12
Looks like they're due for a 10-6 record this year. :D
How is it then that you can account for a QB like Joe Montana who had a rubber band of an arm?Quote:
Originally Posted by MrDigital
And coincidentally... the quick slant was a "bread and butter" staple of the 49ers with Joe Montana at the helm.
Well, good luck to you. May just have to find another vice to spice things up again!Quote:
And yeah, I'm off the sauce. Just over a month now. Being a non-drinker is as boring as I always figured it was.
:D
Raiders/49ers on tape delay tonight. Dammit. But at least football is starting.
You keep bringing up Montana. Chad Pennington is no Montana. And Montana had an amazing supporting cast and one of the best NFL coaches ever.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spank_Me_Hard
anyone else gearing up for fantasy football? a draft for one of my leagues is tomorrow...still trying to decide on a team name
I'm not sure when my draft is. The buy-in this year is $300 though, so I hope I pick a good team.
True... but with one key element that you aren't addressing...Quote:
Originally Posted by MrDigital
They both have pathetic arm strength.
And yet one is a hall of fame QB who threw the exact pass that you are describing (the slant) and the other you say can't play at the NFL level...
So what gives?!?
When Montana was throwing the quick slant, teams didn't have a decent defense against it because Bill Walsh INVENTED it. In 2008 they have a decent defense against it. It's a totally different era.
And like I said, Montana had an amazing cast which kept his limitations smaller. The guy had an awesome coach who came up with the most copied offensive strategy in football, an excellent running game and excellent receivers.
So yeah, could Pennington be a great quarterback? Sure. If you give him all that. And put him in the 1980s. On the 49ers.
And I never said he couldn't play at the NFL level. I simply said he had the most worthless arm in the NFL. In the right situation he could be "pretty good" quarterback, but in most other situations he's fighting for a starting job. Hell, he was fighting for a starting job on the Jets against the lowest rated quarterback of 2007.
So yeah, he's not that good.
In other news, the Lions are undefeated.
I don't think that Walsh invented the slant pattern... but he sure did perfect it!Quote:
Originally Posted by MrDigital
As a Miami fan, I saw the 'Phins quickly adapt this pattern into their playbooks as well in the Marino and Marks Brothers era.
And I disagree that there wasn't a good defense against it in the day...
Pass coverages have fundamentally been the same for a lot of years. You play man to man, or zone. Within each, there are small subelties (e.g. "bump and run" as a type of man to man coverage... but basically, there is only those two types.
Back in the 80's the prevalent coverage was the zone. And throwing a quick slant against a zone was often a surefire way to get your reciever killed (eg over the middle into a linebackers zone), a pass incomplete, or worse of all... a crushing hit resulting in a fumble.
Quick slants were really the best against man to man coverages.
The recievers have also changed. Whereas the 80's featured small, quick, darting recievers (eg the Smurfs... Gary Clark, Ernest Givens, etc.)... the modern game favours big, tall, strong recievers (eg. Terrel Owens, Randy Moss).
Typically... the corners have mirrored the recievers that they cover (eg. early 80's - small, quick Darrel Green types vs now the larger cornerback types).
The point being... yes the game has changed... but not always as radically as you've alluded to (todays defenses being better at stopping the slant... the "West Coast" offence is still pretty common).
In this respect... I don't think that a QBs arm strength has fundamentally changed the game.
Agreed. Including the best reciever to ever play the game... which never hurt to run those quick slants to perfection and basically be uncoverable.Quote:
And like I said, Montana had an amazing cast which kept his limitations smaller. The guy had an awesome coach who came up with the most copied offensive strategy in football, an excellent running game and excellent receivers.
What about only a few years ago with the Raiders (West Coast offence... with Jerry Rice, Tim Brown, and Jerry Porter)? Seems to me like that teams had some striking similarities... despite the 20 some year difference.Quote:
So yeah, could Pennington be a great quarterback? Sure. If you give him all that. And put him in the 1980s. On the 49ers.
Fair enough.Quote:
And I never said he couldn't play at the NFL level. I simply said he had the most worthless arm in the NFL.
It's not like I'm a huge Jets fan having seen all their games to decide for myself...Quote:
In the right situation he could be "pretty good" quarterback, but in most other situations he's fighting for a starting job. Hell, he was fighting for a starting job on the Jets against the lowest rated quarterback of 2007.
But what I do know is that by looking at the stats, it looks to be a no brainer... Pennington's stats were WAY better than Clemens. Having played the same amount of time (eight games).
Take a look:
http://www.nfl.com/teams/newyorkjets...YJ&seasonType=
Not bad stats for Pennington considering the team was 4-12 (and 1-7 under him). Awful stats for Clemens (5TDs, 10INTs vs. 10TDs and 9INTs for Pennington, 16% fewer completions, and 0.7 yards fewer yards per attempt). Not even to mention QB ratings.
Makes Pennington look pretty good in comparison. So why he have to fight for his job vs. Clemens is a mystery to me.
Well, maybe just a matter of opinion... but he has had decent seasons... not so long ago. And even last season statistically for him wasn't too bad all things considering...Quote:
So yeah, he's not that good.