By your own measuring standards it will apparently...Quote:
Originally Posted by md1198p
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By your own measuring standards it will apparently...Quote:
Originally Posted by md1198p
Odd... it almost sounds like McNabb has been having to rely on his scrambling for success in the past.Quote:
Originally Posted by md1198p
Take away that and he has to learn how to be a REAL pocket passer...
Deja Vu...
Dilfer would be a different case; straight up wins aren't as directly comparable across different teams. Dilfer was obviously not the best QB in the league that year, but he didn't need to be, as the defense was just sick. Their play style wasn't comparable to the more QB focused, offensive minded teams, so you can't just straight say that he had the wins so he's the best.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spank_Me_Hard
In the case of Clemons versus Pennington, they both ran the same system for the same team in the same year. Of course, they faced different opponents in different locations, but it is much more reasonable to compare wins of two guys in their situation than to compare Dilfer to QBs on completely different teams.
Regardless of who is better right now, I think everyone knows what you're going to get out of Pennington, and with all his injuries he's likely on the downside of his career. This is only Clemons' third year of playing, and having him work behind a vet like Favre can only mean good things. It's a choice between the backup who is nothing but a backup and the backup who still has upside.
It was only the most basic premise that I was challenging... that wins by a QB are in no way indicative of their overall quality. As I've made mention before... it's the ultimate team game.Quote:
Originally Posted by monroeski
This is very true too!Quote:
In the case of Clemons versus Pennington, they both ran the same system for the same team in the same year. Of course, they faced different opponents in different locations, but it is much more reasonable to compare wins of two guys in their situation than to compare Dilfer to QBs on completely different teams.
"Wins" is way too simplistic (and inaccurate) to compare the two. The teams that they faced may have made all the difference in the world.
I'd also agree with this. Which is why I made mention that I in no way considered Pennington the 'Phins QB of the future. Just a big upgrade... for now.Quote:
Regardless of who is better right now, I think everyone knows what you're going to get out of Pennington, and with all his injuries he's likely on the downside of his career.
One could say the exact same thing about working behind a vet like Pennington. And Pennington is also supposed to be a team leader as well... one would think a good teachewr for Clemons. Clemens does hold more future potential... I'll give him that.Quote:
This is only Clemons' third year of playing, and having him work behind a vet like Favre can only mean good things.
But for now, the latest stats aren't making him look very good. Still, as a young QB I'd be patient with him. Many QBs take time to mature properly.
For the mostpart, yes.Quote:
It's a choice between the backup who is nothing but a backup and the backup who still has upside.
But part of a backup's job is just that... backing up the starter if the starter gets injured.
Should Favre get injured... a very real possibility considering his age, lack of knowledge of the offense, the quality of the Jets overall, and the lack of good blocking... then the backup gets inserted. In which case, Pennington would have represented a better chance at winning than Clemens... despite Clemen's awe inspiring 3-5 record last year.
As a Raider fan, I can only envy people as they talk about football with pride and not shame. But hey my team is still undefeated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaceman Spiff
I'm in the exact same boat...Quote:
Originally Posted by Mindwarper
The Raiders are my #3 team...
In a world where you just plan to have one veteran and one guy learning, you don't have to strain your brain too hard deciding between Pennington and Favre, though. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Spank_Me_Hard
I guess that's where the opinion comes in on whether Clemens is better than Pennington. At a minimum, though, they're not really all that far away from each other, and when your starter has a built in time limit (Favre is old) I want the backup with the best upside after the starter's career is over.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spank_Me_Hard
I actually tend to like Pennington, but I know that Favre is an upgrade over what they already had and if you're going to cut somebody you don't leave yourself with an old guy who could retire any minute and an almost old guy who is on the downside and injury prone. No matter whether I like Pennington more than Clemens or not, in their position I think I would have made the same choice. He's just a victim of circumstance.
LOL!Quote:
Originally Posted by monroeski
This is undeniably true...
Which I actually agree with too. That and cutting out Pennington's salary wasQuote:
I actually tend to like Pennington, but I know that Favre is an upgrade over what they already had and if you're going to cut somebody you don't leave yourself with an old guy who could retire any minute and an almost old guy who is on the downside and injury prone. No matter whether I like Pennington more than Clemens or not, in their position I think I would have made the same choice. He's just a victim of circumstance.
all the much more alluring. He's more of a victim of circumstance I think than that Clemens is a better QB...
It may hurt them this year should Favre get hurt... but in the long run it's what's best for the team.
On McNabb's recovery from his 2006 knee injury:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/traini...t&lid=tab3pos1
I have to hand it to McNabb... he ran better than I thought that he would (though judging by Runyan's comments... not as good as he used too). The difference being now... that he only bought himself a little more time to make the next read... as opposed to being able to outwait the defense and have it break down somewhere.Quote:
McNabb has had two major knee surgeries, the most recent one in 2006. It was evident from the start of last season that he hadn't made a full recovery.
"You knew he wasn't himself at all," veteran offensive tackle Jon Runyan said. "He had defensive linemen catching him from behind, so it had to be frustrating."
I doubted his ability to read a defense not being able to scramble very well and he did better than I expected.
That being said... it looks like I was not the only one who noticed that this was not the same McNabb of old.
I expect his knee to be much better this year.
The Raiders are my numbers 1 thru 32. I do have an admiration for the Steelers, even though I hate them :). I dislike the Broncos, Chargers, and Patriots the most. But I have some hope for this year and more for next year. They are laying a good foundation and if Kiffin is left alone, next year could be great.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spank_Me_Hard
My pecking order is:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mindwarper
Miami #1
Washington #2
Raiders #3
Yea... even cheering for three teams has been bleak for me the past few years... LOL!
I hate everybody in the Raiders division... period. Probably the Broncos the most... absolutely can't stand them. Followed closely by San Diego. Hate the Jets and Bills. Hate Philadelphia and the Giants.
Don't actually mind the 'Pats... despite them absolutely slaughtering Miami the past few seasons. They don't really seem to have any personalities that I despise. Hard to hate the Cards too... they've never been good so how can I really hate them?
NFC West, NFC Central, and AFC Central I'm all pretty much neutral with.
I like the Lions and San Diego.
And despise the Raiders.
I hate the Raiders, Chiefs, and Pats respectively. The Broncos are definitely my #1, then Colts #2. For some reason I always find myself cheering for the Saints too...I really don't know why but I like them.
And what I think is sad but true: The Broncos are gonna suck this year along with the Raiders and Chiefs. :(
I think that Shannahan's impecable tenure of the Broncos is starting to fade. I think that this year may even be worse than their last.Quote:
Originally Posted by Snakespy
For some reason, I actually have hope for the Raiders this year. It's hard to quantify. Part of it is just a gut feeling (which I haven't had with the Raiders since the Rich Gannon years). But part of it is that I think a few things may happen:
1. Russel may mature more.
2. McFadden may be the real deal.
3. Their defensive line may be better.
4. They may now have two "shutdown" corners.
None of this is a given... just a possibility. After years of having no hope at all... I actually feel decent about them this year.
There are a few teams in the league who seem to garner more hatred than others. The Raiders are usually at the top of that list. As with the Cowboys.
I only like 1 team per sport. Eagles, and Pacers for BBall. I guess I am a Yankee fan also, but I lost my taste for baseball around 2000 or so. And I never followed hockey at all.