Piracy, How much money is being lost, and what percent of them would have bought it?

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11-14-2004, 12:01 PM
kent1146

Quote:

Originally posted by MrDigital
Kids, kids, kids. If you want to try and have a discussion on piracy, at least understand what it means.

Pirating has nothing to do with profit.

Dictionary.com, just a click away.

v. pi·rat·ing
To make use of or reproduce (another's work) without authorization.

Now then, where do you see "for profit" in that description? Nowhere. Copyright infringement = pirating.

-MrD

Thank you for clarifying that.

I am glad someone has the wisdom to realize that copying without making profit DOES NOT make it okay.

You copy without permission for personal use, you are just as guilty as the guy who copies for profit.
11-14-2004, 03:07 PM
Russell

Quote:

Originally posted by kent1146
Thank you for clarifying that.

I am glad someone has the wisdom to realize that copying without making profit DOES NOT make it okay.

You copy without permission for personal use, you are just as guilty as the guy who copies for profit.

I disagree with that one. Each is a separate crime. The piracy is the first crime, the sale is the second. That's like saying that possession of illegal drugs is just as bad as possession/sale. Or that robbing a convenience store is just as bad as robbing the convenience store and shooting the clerk.
11-14-2004, 04:48 PM
kent1146

Quote:

Originally posted by Russell
I disagree with that one. Each is a separate crime. The piracy is the first crime, the sale is the second. That's like saying that possession of illegal drugs is just as bad as possession/sale. Or that robbing a convenience store is just as bad as robbing the convenience store and shooting the clerk.

There is possession of narcotics, and possession of narcotics with intent to distribute.

There is grand larceny, and grand larceny + 2nd degree murder.

The crimes mentioned above have been deemed as separate offenses by the law.

In the case of copyright infringement, there is just copyright infringement. There is no such thing as copyright infringement w/intent to distribute.

The penalties levied by a judge will probably be different for someone who copies for personal use vs. someone who copies for profit, but the crime is the same.
11-14-2004, 07:04 PM
Freddy_Kruger

Quote:

Originally posted by kent1146
Thank you for clarifying that.

I am glad someone has the wisdom to realize that copying without making profit DOES NOT make it okay.

You copy without permission for personal use, you are just as guilty as the guy who copies for profit.

And dont forget not to rip those tags of the mattreses too. Crime is crime.
11-14-2004, 08:28 PM
kent1146

If you are somehow trying to say that violating copyright law is somehow acceptable, because it is acceptable to rip the matress tag off of a matress that you purchase, then I would love to hear it.

In fact, I will make it easier.

Under what circumstances is it acceptable to make an unauthorized copy of a piece of software?
11-14-2004, 09:04 PM
talldude

Quote:

Originally posted by Freddy_Kruger
And dont forget not to rip those tags of the mattreses too. Crime is crime.

Dude, you obviously haven't read what it says on mattress tags. It's something to the effect that mattress tags are not to be removed under penalty of law EXCEPT BY the consumer. That means hotels etc. can't remove them, but you can do whatever the hell you want with your own mattress.

But that's going way off track.

As for the entire copyright thing - I believe that all rational people here can agree with the fact that using a piece of software that you have not paid for is wrong, at least at the legal level if not your personal moral level. I don't see that there is anything to debate here except your personal moral convictions. Let's leave it at that.
11-15-2004, 09:54 AM
ewitte

Quote:

Originally posted by Colossus
I agree, people DONT pirate because they cannot afford that program/game/movie/music/etc.. They do it because its so damn easy.

They ASSUME that since I cannot afford it anyway, It is okay for me to steal the game. Its not like they were going to get my money anyway. :rolleyes:

If you want that game so badly to play, you will find a way to afford it or WAIT until you can afford it. Even if it ends up in the bargin bin.

I do believe piracy is a large market. Not some small avenue that some people believe. I dont believe every **** and tom are pirating, but I do feel its a large portion.

I think the majority is stuff that would have not been purchased in the first place. If you really like something you will buy it. If it available for sale at least. There are a few titles that come to mind that were not allowed to be sold in the US. Its usually the software I don't care about that gets pirated. Usually it will be installed for less than a month. Just something to pass the time.

Eric
11-15-2004, 11:08 AM
Colossus

Quote:

Originally posted by ewitte
I think the majority is stuff that would have not been purchased in the first place. If you really like something you will buy it. If it available for sale at least. There are a few titles that come to mind that were not allowed to be sold in the US. Its usually the software I don't care about that gets pirated. Usually it will be installed for less than a month. Just something to pass the time.

Eric

But the thing is, you cannot count it as a NO SALE either. Even if you had no intentions of buying it :D

But what titles did you have to own or atleast demo for less then a month that was not available in the USA?

So with that said, It must be ok for me to STEAL cable (pirate). Its ok because I would NEVER of paid their high premium of $100 per month for all the channels (not included Pay-Per-View).. So that makes it ok? They would of never gotten a sale from me, so its ok for me to steal it...

That is what you are saying.

Or how about people who buy bootleg copies or download them from the internet. You know that famous guy or female in the movie theater with a video camera. Its ok to download that since I would of never went to the theater to watch it. So they still didnt lose a sale?

If you wasted your time/bandwidth/etc to download it. Then it was something with value to you. So both excuse would be stupid! It has some kind of value, but maybe not its current value. Never the less it still had some kind of value in your eyes.
11-15-2004, 11:41 AM
kent1146

Quote:

Originally posted by ewitte
I think the majority is stuff that would have not been purchased in the first place. If you really like something you will buy it. If it available for sale at least. There are a few titles that come to mind that were not allowed to be sold in the US. Its usually the software I don't care about that gets pirated. Usually it will be installed for less than a month. Just something to pass the time.

Eric

By your logic, if somebody doesn't care about it, then they won't mind if they stop pirating these "installed for less than a month" games.
11-15-2004, 03:16 PM
Freddy_Kruger

Quote:

Originally posted by talldude

As for the entire copyright thing - I believe that all rational people...

heh, I'm not a member of that fringe element.
11-15-2004, 03:19 PM
Freddy_Kruger

Quote:

Originally posted by kent1146
If you are somehow trying to say that violating copyright law is somehow acceptable, because it is acceptable to rip the matress tag off of a matress that you purchase, then I would love to hear it.

In fact, I will make it easier.

Under what circumstances is it acceptable to make an unauthorized copy of a piece of software?

Well, how about where it is legal or a mere grey area. Your laws stop at your borders.
11-15-2004, 06:21 PM
ewitte

Quote:

Originally posted by Colossus
But the thing is, you cannot count it as a NO SALE either. Even if you had no intentions of buying it :D

No sale is no sale. Thats just as bad as counting people who never pirated it as a lost sale :) I could count it as a potential EXTRA sale. If its good enough and/or I recommend it to others :) I've had clients buy software I "tried" before based on my recommendation.

Quote:

But what titles did you have to own or atleast demo for less then a month that was not available in the USA?

The only thing thats at the top of my mind is "singles." From what I hear Australia gets royally screwed with software availability.

Quote:

So with that said, It must be ok for me to STEAL cable (pirate). Its ok because I would NEVER of paid their high premium of $100 per month for all the channels (not included Pay-Per-View).. So that makes it ok? They would of never gotten a sale from me, so its ok for me to steal it...

That is what you are saying.

No its not. That is what you are saying ;) I can't even PAY for my PAY-PER-VIEW :(

Quote:

If you wasted your time/bandwidth/etc to download it. Then it was something with value to you. So both excuse would be stupid! It has some kind of value, but maybe not its current value. Never the less it still had some kind of value in your eyes.

Its an addiction. I've downloaded stuff in the past that never got installed! Its more about obtaining it and "collecting."

Eric
11-15-2004, 07:55 PM
Freddy_Kruger

Quote:

Originally posted by ewitte
Its an addiction. I've downloaded stuff in the past that never got installed! Its more about obtaining it and "collecting."

I never thought of it that way before but, ya it's absolutely addictive.
I used to video tape movies and television series etc star trek, xena etc. That is was acrime to some.
Now I download them a season at a time, they are in proper order, no commercials. I think it's great, even though you could buy them on DVD at a store, I would only want them if they were Free.

Just today, at the library, in the new book section, there was a copy of Dan Brown's Da Vinci Code. Now I have already bought that book but, if I took that book out and read it, and it prevented me from buying it, it's just like piracy but legal.
11-17-2004, 10:48 AM
Moridin

Quote:

Originally posted by Colossus
You as the consumer cannot tell the software developer how much a given software package is worth. You have no right to say that Windows XP PRO OEM is worth $50 instead of $130.

The consumer defines what any/everything is worth because they are the ones who either pay for it or are not willing to pay for it.

Quote:

Originally posted by Colossus

So since you dont agree with the pricing that doesnt NOT give you the right to pirate it. Since you wouldnt buy it at $130, so you download it for free. That is one of the dumbest thing I have heard!

Again, we are not discussing the “right” to pirate it but how much money software companies loose when people do pirate their software and this number will always be less then the retail sale price of the software multiplied by the number of pirated copies.

Quote:

Originally posted by Colossus

Its like a TV, if you cannot afford the Mitsubishi 60" Wide screen, then you get something smaller or alternative within your budget. Most software has a very good comparable product for less or even free...

Such as..

Windows -> Linux
Office -> OpenOffice

Exactly, this is why the software industry numbers are bogus. They presume that every person running pirated software will buy their product if piracy is eliminated when if fact the majority will simply move to some free version.

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