Vick is a very exciting QB to watch I will give him that, I love how he just explodes like a lightning bolt out of the pocket. But thats not what a NFL team needs to win, they need someone who can pass.
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Vick is a very exciting QB to watch I will give him that, I love how he just explodes like a lightning bolt out of the pocket. But thats not what a NFL team needs to win, they need someone who can pass.
I didn't say he couldn't throw and could only run, I just said I think he's average.Quote:
Originally Posted by OpStar
::edit::
Just went checking on NFL.com, and from the stats I looked at, he's 39-29-1 as a starter, which is a win percentage of just 57%, and if you take away his one 12 and 5 season, it drops to 52%. Where did you get the 61% number?
I hate to bring everything back to Plummer again but, like Vick, Plummer has an incredible win % (well at least with the Broncos). But people still hate plummer and will swear to the grave that he is the worst QB to ever play football. Just because they win doesnt make them a great player, it means they have great teams.
From NFL.com. Like my post said it was prior to the 06 season kickoff, so yeah its a bit lower now.Quote:
Originally Posted by monroeski
Why the hell would you take away his 12 and 5 season. You going to take away mannings season this year?
At any rate, I just think people pick on Vick because expectations are so high.
Tell me about who Vick is going to be throwing to if he joins the Raiders. Beyond Moss and Porter I don't know them too well.
So "why the hell" did you take away this year for Vick?Quote:
Originally Posted by OpStar
Manning is easily the best QB in the league, and his numerous 100+ QB rating seasons attest to that. He might not be the guy you want to win a superbowl, but from raw talent he's untouchable.
Because he's had pretty much average seasons, record wise, every year except that one. That was my point earlier, that other than one great season, the team hasn't really done anything special with him around. My point is that his average drops considerably if you just take away one season, so yes, I would take away Manning's best season, too, but I'm willing to bet his win percentage overall wouldn't drop by 5 points if you take away one season.Quote:
Originally Posted by OpStar
::edit::
Take away this season, and he goes from 62.8% to 60.5%. Win percentage is 63.9% in the regular season, 62.5% without this season. So, if you take away his best season, he is still ahead of Vick by like 5% if you include Vick's best season. Manning's also only had two losing seasons in the NFL, and has started every game the Colts played since 1998. I think this was the first year that Vick even started every one of the Falcon's games. It's almost not even practical to compare Manning to Vick.
Now this is just my opinion here but as far as raw talent Vick > Manning. But, obviously Manning is the far superior quarterback. Manning is extremely talented, but I think its his game management, and coach-like knowledge that makes him great.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrDigital
Well for what its worth Falcon's ownership claims Vick is staying and that the trade rumors are just that, rumors. I know that doesn't necessarily mean anything because we all know how much owners lie about things :p, but for the time being it looks like the trade is a no go.
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/6...40813162&ATT=5
yea I don't believe anything coaches, gms, and owners say during the off season. whats the point? its all lies and manipulation, especially at the draft.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gar
I don't really even think Vick is more talented than Manning, but I think that's because I generally expand the definition past physical attributes. I figure that since all personalities are different, and some people just do not have the same decision making skills that others do, then those mental attributes count as talent as well. Some people are just faster than others, some are just stronger than others, and some just make better decisions than others (without going into conservative QBs versus gunslingers, etc., which is subjective).Quote:
Originally Posted by spamjedi
I guess I'm in the minority on that, since 90% of people you ask will say that Vick is more talented than Manning.
Good point. But kind of like you hinted we then have to define talent, and thats a whole other can of worms I suppose. But in the spirit... I personally would say that Vick seems more physically talented than Manning.Quote:
Originally Posted by monroeski
And keeping with the spirit, Manning is more mentally talented than Vick :p
lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Gar
A bit late the the party I'm sure, but I was pretty happy the Colts won. Though I really didn't want the Bears to win, especially by blowing the Saints out.
Physically talented, there's no question. Vick could crawl a 40 faster than Manning could do it on a bike. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by spamjedi
There is more to athleticism than how fast you can run or how much weight you can lift.
raiders have ronald curry cayching balls...which would be REALLY interesting if vick went to the raiders if you know the whole curry/vick story.... would be funny to see them playing together, also they got doug gabriel back, who is underrated IMO....other than that, 6' 4" morant but he hasn't does much of anything.... whatever happened to speedy carlos francis? last i heard be broke a leg 2 seasons ago and no one has heard from him since, maybe they cut him.
either way it mdoesn't matter, adding vick only assures them of going .400
anyone see the lane kiffin press conference? he was there with al davis, trying to convince the world and raider nation that the raiders were back.... al davis looked like the crypt keeper ! shaking his finger at the camera trying to convince people that the raiders were back at the top and lane kiffin was bringing them there....whatever geezer, you make my team look bad a-hole.
At least you have something to get back to, all I have is consistent sucking for 50 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by vairox
not really, millen will be assassinated by a determined detroit fan....fans can only take that asshat for so long.... it's torture, i'm glad i'm not a lions fan! you guys have a decent offense, kitna was underrated but still made a lot of mistakes, you need a QB and a dead millen.Quote:
Originally Posted by spamjedi
We need a o-line. Nobody follows other teams o-lines but trust me ours had to be one of the worst. I think Kitna was the most sacked qb in the league, but Im not sure. The fact that he started every game and played every snap is a miracle.Quote:
Originally Posted by vairox
We also need a middle linebacker who can handle the tampa two. I think we're screwed by that number 2 overall pick, theres no one there we need and whos gonna trade up with us? So we'll take another QB bust or something.
Heh, Kitna WAS the most sacked QB this year.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/stats/by...meframe=ToDate
Almost the most intercepted too. Still had a decent rating though and threw up good yards and a decent number of TDs.
EDIT: Although, overall, the Raiders o-line is still the worst in the game. Combine Brooks and Walter and you get 72 sacks on the year.
wow, peyton is the least sacked starting QB...14? thats less than 1 a game....crazy.
not in playing shape? is this how the lions address their o-line problems? haha.Quote:
Lions offensive coordinator Mike Martz said that a couple of team officials, including Matt Millen, took Wisconsin tackle Joe Thomas to dinner Monday night. The 6-foot-7, 310-pound tackle was scheduled to play Saturday but pulled out, telling Senior Bowl officials he wasn't in playing shape. He is expected to be a top-five pick.
-- Detroit Free Press
For every one measure in which Manning is more physically athletic than Vick, there are 6 that go the other way.Quote:
Originally Posted by rabidmoose171
4.5 per game. That's freaking embarrassing.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrDigital
Honestly, if I was projected as a top 5 pick, there is just about no way I would have signed up to play the Senior Bowl in the first place. You can really only make yourself look worse when you're already that high, and while All-Star games are always fun to play in, you're talking about a LOT of risk with not too much reward.Quote:
Originally Posted by vairox
I didn't. Just the stats page for Vick had his winning % posted prior to this year and I didn't feel like doing math. I was pretty obvious in stating where the stat came from.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrDigital
I never said Manning wasn't the best, I just said I like Vick.
I highly doubt that. Vick is extremely physically athletic but thats about it. Manning is an all around perfect QB and is waaaay more talented than Vick. Manning is the king right now no one can come near his talent.Quote:
Originally Posted by monroeski
The times that I have seen Manning scramble, he is NOT slow. He isnt fast thats for sure, but he can run if he has to (he had like 5 running TDs in the regular season and one in the playoffs i do believe)