Maybe off topic but involves music

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Originally posted by Idiot356


Greed, dude I am a musician...I am not greedy, and I don't make much money with music...when I do start making money, I don't want people stealing my music...not to say I wont allow a legal download...but when someone steels your entire album, than money will be lost...and more importantly the artist will take the hit, because the record companies have all the money.

Also, your argument about, you weren't going to be buying it anyway is childish... how , do you know you werne't going to buy it? Because, you probably don't buy any music now as you can pirate it...so maybe you would have bought it, if you couldn't just steel it.

Just because you can't pyshcially touch music, doensn't mean it is free... just as you can't physically touch the words in books, doesn't mean it's free.

Since I've spent 100's of hours practicing, and recording music in the studio...let me explain to you something, it's not easy, it's hard work, and it's a passion...if you pour your heart and sould into something in hopes of becoming succesfull you would also realize this.

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But you yourself said you would love to see your music start getting downloaded on kazaa. When its used as an advertisement or a way of getting your music out there you are ok with it yet when you start to sell cd's(because of it) you don't want people downloading anymore. Which in turn is a form of greed. You may be missing out on $100,000 worth of cd's but not remembering kazaa got you there to start with and those fans that downloaded your songs for free got the name you have now for you. If it wasn't for those four million kazaa users you may have never made it to anything. You never know, and beginning musicians could really use this to their advantage. Just think, you could make your cd and rip it to mp3's and purposely spread it around kazaa as much as you can just to get your music out there. People will hear it and like it and download more, which WILL gain you fans and if they like your music enough WILL buy your cds. There's ups and downs to it and I feel there are more ups to the individual musician and more downs to the riaa. I'm not trying to start a fight i'm just giving examples from both sides.

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Originally posted by 1ctabor
But you yourself said you would love to see your music start getting downloaded on kazaa. When its used as an advertisement or a way of getting your music out there you are ok with it yet when you start to sell cd's(because of it) you don't want people downloading anymore. Which in turn is a form of greed. You may be missing out on $100,000 worth of cd's but not remembering kazaa got you there to start with and those fans that downloaded your songs for free got the name you have now for you. If it wasn't for those four million kazaa users you may have never made it to anything. You never know, and beginning musicians could really use this to their advantage. Just think, you could make your cd and rip it to mp3's and purposely spread it around kazaa as much as you can just to get your music out there. People will hear it and like it and download more, which WILL gain you fans and if they like your music enough WILL buy your cds. There's ups and downs to it and I feel there are more ups to the individual musician and more downs to the riaa. I'm not trying to start a fight i'm just giving examples from both sides.

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See this is were this topic just gets crazy, and it's where musicians will end up condriticting themselves. I mean, I would love to use the net to get my music out there before people can buy my music, but I would also love for everyone who downloaded one of my songs to buy my CD...thats why I like MP3.com, I didn't mean Kazaa, beacause with Kazaa your target audience is really not being targeted, and I don't think people that use PtoP engines really search for random artist...usaully they go for songs that they here on the radio. So if our songs aren't on the Radio, then the likelyhood of gettin a fallowing from Kazaa is pretty slim...

I feel that, a website with a few songs downloadable, and on MP3.com...and a way for people to order your CD is the best way to go. But then of course I will be called a hypocrite if I don't agree with people downloading songs.

Really, this debate, over what is right and what is wrong is futile...because the people who think it doesn't hurt the artist when they download music will continue to download, and the people who are on the other side will bealive the opposite.

I guess when it comes down to it, artist when they start out love MP3's because it gives them expousure, but when they are finally making money they swing the opposite way...

One thing that people cannot download...A LIVE SHOW... that I suppose will how the money is to be made!:D

I GOT IT!

I just thought of the perfect solutions for both Artist and pirate?

Why not have ALL MP3's available but only 30 seconds of the song? I mean come on, most people know if they like the song in the first 5. So this way if they want the whole song they have to buy it. Sorta like demo's for games :)

I may sound sarcastic but I am being honest.

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Originally posted by Idiot356


One thing that people cannot download...A LIVE SHOW... that I suppose will how the money is to be made!:D

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I know a few EEs that could argue that. ;)

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Originally posted by Isezumi


I know a few EEs that could argue that. ;)

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Well of course, someone can download a video of a live show...but that is nothing like being there. Thats my point, and true fans will come to see a live show...if they download the music or not.

When my rock band hit it big, we actually got 3 gigs in one year at the local nursing homes...https://www.sharkyforums.com/

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Originally posted by Fig
When my rock band hit it big, we actually got 3 gigs in one year at the local nursing homes...https://www.sharkyforums.com/

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Where do you get your smily's:D :D :D

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Originally posted by 1ctabor
Where do you get your smily's:D :D :D

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I just google "animated gifs" or "animated smiley gifs". Some, I get from other forums. =]

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Originally posted by Idiot356

Also, your argument about, you weren't going to be buying it anyway is childish... how , do you know you werne't going to buy it? Because, you probably don't buy any music now as you can pirate it...so maybe you would have bought it, if you couldn't just steel it.

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It's not childish. I download plenty of songs, and I can honestly say that most of them are not good enough to make me want to purchase the cd. If I like a band enough, I will buy their cd anyway in order to support them, but if it's just a somewhat interesting song that I heard on the radio, then there's no way I would dump $18 on a cd just to listen to the song five times. I never download entire cd's off the internet. The reasoning behind this is that if I would want the entire cd then I must really like a lot of the music on it, and if I like the music that much, then it's worth paying $18 for good sound quality and not 64-bit crap. I own lots of cd's, but they're by bands such as Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Incubus and Metallica. The common element between these bands is that all of them produce cd's (with the exception of Reload, which I own anyway) that have several great songs. Many of their cd's are good enough that you can actually listen to the entire album without skipping any songs. Besides, it's not like file sharing is the only way to do this. I could get ten (or even more) of my friends together, we could each put in two bucks to buy a cd, and we could burn copies for everyone.

Your statement that you wouldn't mind putting your mp3's on the internet for publicity, but wouldn't want people to steal your cd's, is, as someone else pointed out, very greedy. What you're basically saying is that you don't mind having your songs distributed until it starts to cost you money. I can understand that you don't want people stealing something that you invested so much time in, but many of your arguments are just as flawed as the ones in favor of illegal downloading.

Look at it like this, say your a great writer in school, and you write tons of good essays, that you let everyone read...and you write a short book for a school project and you give it to everyone...this in effect gives you the recognition, and people that can say...well he or she is a great writer, publish them. Then when that person gets published, there writing wont be free...because, they have taken it to the next level, and deserve the pay.

Thats the bottom line, you call it greedy, I call it getting paid for hard work.

Bassically if everyone agreed with you, anyone who is making money at something they didn't make money in, when they had little experience...are greedy.

So a young man who loves to work on cars, goes to people and says he will fix there car for free. And he does this for years, until everyone in the city recomends him... he learns more, goes to school, and then opens up his own shop and now charges money is greedy?

It's more hypocritical than greed. You are willing to let the file sharing systems help benifit you and they are all good in that sense. That way people know who you are and you get your music out there then you can start selling cd's to make money. BUT you are saying people shouldn't download music to save their own money using the same system that helped you get a name for yourself. If you can make money off of it shouldn't the rest be able to save money off of it? Isn't it the same thing?

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Originally posted by 1ctabor
It's more hypocritical than greed. You are willing to let the file sharing systems help benifit you and they are all good in that sense. That way people know who you are and you get your music out there then you can start selling cd's to make money. BUT you are saying people shouldn't download music to save their own money using the same system that helped you get a name for yourself. If you can make money off of it shouldn't the rest be able to save money off of it? Isn't it the same thing?

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No its not the same thing. Economically.

Saving money implies that there is an intial actual cash expenditure, but its resulting cost is less then the previous time or that its reduced from MSRP. What you are talking about is NOT spending, as in no intial actual cash expenditure.

Trust me, its very different for Idiot to sells his CDs for $10 a piece when they should be up at $15, and you saving $5 for buying his CD.
As opposed to you not spending any money on his CDs but still having his music anyway.

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Originally posted by Isezumi

No its not the same thing. Economically.

Saving money implies that there is an intial actual cash expenditure, but its resulting cost is less then the previous time or that its reduced from MSRP. What you are talking about is NOT spending, as in no intial actual cash expenditure.

Trust me, its very different for Idiot to sells his CDs for $10 a piece when they should be up at $15, and you saving $5 for buying his CD.
As opposed to you not spending any money on his CDs but still having his music anyway.

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What i'm saying is the same is that we are bothing using the system to our advantage. He becomes more popular from it and I save money. There are pro's for both of us. But I do think its hypocritical to knock the very system that he would like to use to get his music out there when it does have benefits for both of us.

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Originally posted by 1ctabor
What i'm saying is the same is that we are bothing using the system to our advantage. He becomes more popular from it and I save money. There are pro's for both of us. But I do think its hypocritical to knock the very system that he would like to use to get his music out there when it does have benefits for both of us.

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Him wanting to use file sharing to get popular but still cash in on his talent maybe hypocritical, but whats your point?

Its no more hypocritical then a AAMCO that offers a free Transmission inspection.

Nobody is crying about that. Circulating one or two songs on the internet to get your name heard is way different then letting your entire Album to be freely distributed with no benefit to you.

My time as a tech is worth $25 hour, that is what I charge (I tend to undercut most other independents). I am more then happy to spend time off the clock to shoot shist with people, ill spend 10-20 minutes off clock to write down instructions or coach users hell ive even installed Add-on cards and HDDs for free. Partly cause I am a nice guy and partly because it helps build a customer satisfaction base. But if you call me over for an OS install, I am not going to build your 3 new rigs for you and setup/trouleshoot your new Network as a comp.

You are calling him a hypocrite on a black and white scale. But nothing in this world is really just black or just white, there is always shades of grey.