The Official NFL Thread

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Originally Posted by Boneycat

No this issue at hand, like I said before, is whether or not it should be taken away from him. If it is (as it should be) then you can wonder whether or not it hurts him. There's no use in worrying about this last part unless it actually happens.

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You can try to change the subject now all you want, but since the conversation started when you said

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Originally Posted by Boneycat

On a side note, I don't think Bush really cares if they take away his Heisman...he's making plenty of cha-ching already.

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, which is directly talking about the consequences of the trophy being taken away, NOT whether it should be taken or not, you just look silly.

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Originally Posted by rabidmoose171

Let's see Urlacher score the winning touchdown on a 2 yard touchdown dive.

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I think giving the Fridge a touchdown in the Super Bowl and not letting Walter Payton get one is one of the biggest shafts in NFL history, personally. Not that there is anyone on this year's Bears team to compare to Payton, your post just reminded me of that.

All right, let's have some fun: Let's forget about who should win, who's the better team, etc. If the fix is in on this game, as Seahawks fans claim it was last year, who is going to win? Smart money says the refs rig the game for Manning, since he's the NFL's posterboy now, but if he loses again the "can't win the big game" story can be milked on media outlets for another decade while he is still playing. :D

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Originally Posted by monroeski

All right, let's have some fun: Let's forget about who should win, who's the better team, etc. If the fix is in on this game, as Seahawks fans claim it was last year, who is going to win? Smart money says the refs rig the game for Manning, since he's the NFL's posterboy now, but if he loses again the "can't win the big game" story can be milked on media outlets for another decade while he is still playing. :D

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If refs rigged football, especially based on what the fans want, the Saints would be in the superbowl right now. Garaunteed.

Anyone who watched last year knows the refs gave it away. Not just Seahawk fans. It may not have been a fix, but they still influenced the outcome to a craptastic degree.

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Originally Posted by monroeski

You can try to change the subject now all you want, but since the conversation started when you said

, which is directly talking about the consequences of the trophy being taken away, NOT whether it should be taken or not, you just look silly.

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LOL! Notice i had said "on a side note". Trying to change the subject? I think you're the one who has the blinders on. You only look silly trying to make me look silly.

"On a side note" (in quotes for Monroeksi's benefit) I think the Colts are gonna take it, although I wouldn't mind if the Bears won. I'm just hoping it isn't over by half time.

Bears have a 7 point spread, but its still hard to pick the team to bet. This game could go in so many different ways its ridiculous.

Wow, it used to be 6 1/2.

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Originally Posted by Boneycat

LOL! Notice i had said "on a side note". Trying to change the subject? I think you're the one who has the blinders on. You only look silly trying to make me look silly.

"On a side note" (in quotes for Monroeksi's benefit) I think the Colts are gonna take it, although I wouldn't mind if the Bears won. I'm just hoping it isn't over by half time.

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So people can't reply to what you said just because you called it a "side note?" Are you completely blind, or are you intentionally ignoring over a page of conversation talking about whether he cares about losing the Heisman since he's already made a lot of money, and whether money is everything?

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Originally Posted by vairox

Money can't buy personal achievement.

Vince Young would be the winner.

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Originally Posted by Boneycat

Money can get you the things you need to get your personal achievement. It can also motivate you to get your personal achievement. He's already made his money from the fact that he's won the Heisman. Taking the Heisman away from him now is not going to diminish this fact. Let's face it, it is all about money.

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Originally Posted by vairox

sounds to me like monro has been following the conversation a lot closer than some actual participants...sad.

I never said Bush should be allowed to break the rules, she should have the heisman stripped, USC put on sanctions and he should pay a hefty price for it...you stated that it didn't matter if he broke the rules (so it's ok) since he has a bunch of money now and it's all about the money anyways.

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Originally Posted by rabidmoose171

He got the trophy, and he got drafted high, now he makes a ton of money, if they take the trophy away he isn't going to lose his money.

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And that's not even half of it. I'm through arguing this, since it's obvious you're not paying any attention at all.

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Originally Posted by monroeski

I'm through arguing this, since it's obvious you're not paying any attention at all.

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Oh thank god. It's hard arguing w/ someone who accuses you of doing something they themselves are guilty of. In academic terms it's called "projecting". Oh and a side note, Reggie is a kick *** player who deserves to have his Heisman taken away from him, regardless of the fact that he's made a buttload of money.

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Originally Posted by rabidmoose171

Let's see Urlacher score the winning touchdown on a 2 yard touchdown dive.

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The new slimer fridge for the 21st centrury!

I can't believe I missed this entire season. Whoops.

I wondered where you went. Not impressed with the Browns this year?:p

If I was a Browns fan I woulda stayed out of this thread as well. :D


Enough talk about the Heisman guys, its starting to turn to a flame war.

Grrr to both of you. ;)

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Originally Posted by Gar

Wow, I'm not even a Reggie Bush fan but if you think he didn't live up to the "hype" then you're nuts. Hell before the season started he had very little hype, no one even expected him to do that much just be a good backup when Deuce needed a breather.

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Bush was massively hyped before the season, before the draft even - you must not watch much football or something, the guy was on EVERY sports show, his highlights were on EVERY sports show, best damn sports show, ESPN, nfl countdown, cold pizza, you name it he was hyped like the second coming of Barry Sanders like you wouldn't believe... and this was prior to him even being selected by the Saints so no one was talking about him being a backup yet, then when he was selected the hype continued... anytime Bush got the ball they would show it on sportscenter, most of the time he got stuffed or stuffed for a loss...if he got a 5 yard carry it was all over the news like it was some kind of hi-light for the ages... it was sickening. I could have made some of the runs that were SC hi-lights, for the first part of the season he got stuffed nearly everytime he touched the ball... and people got quiet, then if he broke something loose a bit the hype machine started up again, it was retarded.

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Originally Posted by Gar

He was a huge playmaker for the Saints this season, and a major part of why they made it to the NFC championship game. Its not just his stats that impress people either, the whole Saints team gets pumped up every time he does his crazy juke moves to break a run, let alone how the crowd gets loud and jacked up when he gets in the game.

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what were you watching? last year's USC trojans? his longest run this year out of 155 attempts was 18 yards... exactly what was he "breaking" ? he had 6 td's this season and 4 of those came in the red zone against the 9ers cause they force fed him the ball to get him td's. He had 88 catches (cause he was pretty useless in the running game at 3.6 ypc ave) and his longest was for 74 yards...

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And Reggie was already voted the greatest college football player last year, how do his actions off the field change what he did on the field?

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oh, I don't know...something about moral character, being a role model for kids...if the best college football player is taking money/houses then it must be ok to do? not to mention it being an NCAA violation... it doesn't change what he did ON the field, it just changes the fact that he is a heisman winner since in order to be a winner you must not break the rules.

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I'm done venting for now, you can take away Reggie's Heisman, but if they give it to Vince Young there will always be an asterisk by his name in the history books that states he really came in second in the voting and won by a technicality.

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yeah, Vince Young won because the "other guy" violated the NCAA rules... not exactly a technicality, if you lose by rule violation then it is not a technicality...you lost because you broke the rules, you went outside the parameters of the game, you lost.

I wonder if it bothers the longtime Cleveland fans that the Ravens (who are the original Browns franchise) won a super bowl w/in 5 years of moving to Baltimore when they couldn't win won in Cleveland?

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Originally Posted by vairox

Bush was massively hyped before the season, before the draft even - you must not watch much football or something, the guy was on EVERY sports show, his highlights were on EVERY sports show, best damn sports show, ESPN, nfl countdown, cold pizza, you name it he was hyped like the second coming of Barry Sanders like you wouldn't believe... and this was prior to him even being selected by the Saints so no one was talking about him being a backup yet, then when he was selected the hype continued... anytime Bush got the ball they would show it on sportscenter, most of the time he got stuffed or stuffed for a loss...if he got a 5 yard carry it was all over the news like it was some kind of hi-light for the ages... it was sickening. I could have made some of the runs that were SC hi-lights, for the first part of the season he got stuffed nearly everytime he touched the ball... and people got quiet, then if he broke something loose a bit the hype machine started up again, it was retarded.

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yes, but if you actually listened to the analyst who know what they are talking about they said he wouldn't amount to much in the much larger and faster NFL, and this was apparent through out the season. He got a few huge plays this year, and did better than the average rookie. He was playing the same style of football that he did in college which doesn't work in the pros.

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what were you watching? last year's USC trojans? his longest run this year out of 155 attempts was 18 yards... exactly what was he "breaking" ? he had 6 td's this season and 4 of those came in the red zone against the 9ers cause they force fed him the ball to get him td's. He had 88 catches (cause he was pretty useless in the running game at 3.6 ypc ave) and his longest was for 74 yards...

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88 catches is nothing to scoff about for anyone in the NFL, especially a rookie running back. Neither is a 74 yard catch, or a 80 something yard catch in the playoffs against a pretty good defense. Again, 6 touchdowns in your rookie year isn't bad.


The rest of your post I won't touch. I don't want to get into ethics or morals of football anymore. I want to enjoy the sport for what it is, a game.

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Originally Posted by Boneycat

I wonder if it bothers the longtime Cleveland fans that the Ravens (who are the original Browns franchise) won a super bowl w/in 5 years of moving to Baltimore when they couldn't win won in Cleveland?

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I bet Art Modell can't go within 100 miles of Cleveland because of that.

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Originally Posted by Boneycat

I wonder if it bothers the longtime Cleveland fans that the Ravens (who are the original Browns franchise) won a super bowl w/in 5 years of moving to Baltimore when they couldn't win won in Cleveland?

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Shut up. You're setting my therapy back by years.

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Originally Posted by r'aggro

I bet Art Modell can't go within 100 miles of Cleveland because of that.

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Why do you think he's not in the Hall of Fame? Every year, Cleveland fans have a massive letter writing campaign just to remind every HoF voter that Cleveland's only an hour from Canton, and we'd LOVE to come to his induction ceremony and express our displeasure. :D

Actually Bush had a total of 9 td's: 6 rushing; 2 receiving; 1 punt return. Considering the Raiders only scored 11 TD's all season (and some of those are from the defense) I would say that's not too shabby. Also 88 catches is HUGE in the NFL. Most team's #1 receiver don't even catch that much in a season. Let's put his 88 catches into some perspective:

Reggie Wayne 86
Chad Johnson 87
Steve Smith 82

just to name a few. Overall his 88 catches puts him TENTH in the league in receptions. I'm amazed that you think he didn't do much this year.

Brian Westbrook, who is by many considered one of the best all around backs, only had 71 receptions. Granted he was hurt for a week or two, but it just kind of gives you an idea of Reggie's accomplishments.

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Originally Posted by Boneycat

just to name a few. Overall his 88 catches puts him TENTH in the league in receptions. I'm amazed that you think he didn't do much this year.

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88 catches is great, but he is a running back... he is a great pick for a receiver, but he was drafted as a RB and all the hype was about him shredding it up as a RB - no one, and I do mean NO ONE expected him to be the #1 receiver for the Saints.

88 catches is awesome, but Colston, the rookie taken in the 7th round had 70 for 1038 yards... 300 more than Bush.

I'm not saying Bush is terrible, he just didn't live up to the hype... he ran for 565 yards, far from even touching the hype this guy had. Addai ran for 1081 yards without ever starting a game! he had ZERO hype, ran for 7 td's, had 40 catches and 3 td's and he had to split time with Rhodes, who btw also ran for more yards than Bush.

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Originally Posted by vairox

88 catches is great, but he is a running back... he is a great pick for a receiver, but he was drafted as a RB and all the hype was about him shredding it up as a RB - no one, and I do mean NO ONE expected him to be the #1 receiver for the Saints.

88 catches is awesome, but Colston, the rookie taken in the 7th round had 70 for 1038 yards... 300 more than Bush.

I'm not saying Bush is terrible, he just didn't live up to the hype... he ran for 565 yards, far from even touching the hype this guy had. Addai ran for 1081 yards without ever starting a game! he had ZERO hype, ran for 7 td's, had 40 catches and 3 td's and he had to split time with Rhodes, who btw also ran for more yards than Bush.

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Bush wasn't recruited as an all out running back, though, New Orleans already had McAllister for that role. He was hyped as a rushing/receiving threat from the beginning. If you look at rushing AND receiving yards, Bush had a total of 1307, and Addai had 1406, so there's not too much difference there, but if you add in punt return yards (Bush has 216, Addai has 0), Bush pulls ahead, though not by much.

Maybe we just watch different sports shows, but I don't recall everyone hyping up Bush to be a spectacular player from the very beginning (though of course there were some people that did). I remember people saying that he was not an every down back early on, and may never be (heck, he wasn't even an every down back in college). I remember them saying he would add an extra dimension to whatever offense he goes to because he can catch at least as well as he can run, he will be a threat returning punts, and he is always a threat to make the big play.

So I agree that he didn't have a monster year, but he did have a very solid year. I disagree that he didn't live up to the hype, because he amounted to just about exactly what most people I heard said he would in his first year. Anyone that said he would have a ton of rushing yards this year was on crack imo, because he's not that type of player.

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Originally Posted by r'aggro

I bet Art Modell can't go within 100 miles of Cleveland because of that.

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Heh i was watching a show a few months back on FSN Rocky Mountain, it had like the 20 most hated sports figures and Art Model was somewhere real close to the most hated. Man that would suck to be a Browns fan.

I agree he had a solid year, for a rookie it was very solid.

oh randy....

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Randy Moss is believed to have told Lane Kiffin that he wasn't interested in talking to his new coach when Kiffin tried to contact him this week.

The story, claiming Moss used "profane and pointed terms" in a brief phone conversation, was whispered about at the Senior Bowl and discussed on two ESPN Radio shows, but never reported. If true, this could be Moss' first step in forcing his way out of Oakland.
Source: Oakland Tribune

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Honestly, watching Cleveland's coach signings, it really looks like we're just phoning it in this year. Oakland's special teams coach and the Houston's offensive line coach don't instill crazy amounts of confidence in me.

Oh well. At least I'm not a Lions fan. ;)