Priated Games? Whats your value system?

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11-23-2004, 05:28 PM
mansionman

Quote:

Originally posted by MrDigital
Hahaha, laws define morals. Dude, morals define LAWS. You have it backwards.

Theft has been looked down upon since the days of the cavement. Try to take another man's food or wife and get a club over the head. Same thing in the animal world where laws have never existed.

Stealing is wrong in every iota of existence and laws are based on that.

-MrD

I don't have it backwards. I just choose to look at it from a different perspective. As do many other people. Because something is said, does not make it fact.
11-23-2004, 05:30 PM
mansionman

Quote:

Originally posted by ewitte
So was throwing stones at people who were deemed "immoral" (which usually meant they had a different religion/heritage). I can see some people in here doing that :0

Eric

Yep, the bible says you should stone children to death for behaving badly. That would be considered WRONG today.
11-23-2004, 05:32 PM
Matt_E

Quote:

Originally posted by ewitte
And it usually means someone is deprived of something they once had. This is not the case with "copying."

Eric

Wrong. That may be your definition, but not the legislatures (As I've stated before).

Theft is not necessarily "depriving" someone of something they once had", but rather taking something that belongs to someone else, without permission.
11-23-2004, 05:34 PM
MrDigital

Quote:

Originally posted by mansionman
I don't have it backwards. I just choose to look at it from a different perspective. As do many other people. Because something is said, does not make it fact.

If you don't have it backwards, explain how theft has been wrong for far longer than civilization and laws have existed? Explain how theft is wrong in the animal world where you will get your arse pummeled by whoever you try to take something from?

There is no different perspective except the one permeated by theives trying to justify their actions.

Theft is wrong. It always has been and always will be.

-MrD
11-23-2004, 05:34 PM
Colossus

steal ( P ) Pronunciation Key (stl)
v. stole, (stl) sto·len, (stln) steal·ing, steals
v. tr.
To take (the property of another) without right or permission.
To get or effect surreptitiously or artfully: steal a kiss; stole the ball from an opponent.
To move, carry, or place surreptitiously.
To draw attention unexpectedly in (an entertainment), especially by being the outstanding performer: The magician's assistant stole the show with her comic antics.
Baseball. To advance safely to (another base) during the delivery of a pitch, without the aid of a base hit, walk, passed ball, or wild pitch.
11-23-2004, 05:35 PM
Un4given

Quote:

Originally posted by gurutoo
1st off, I didn't say jack about a car...
That is your interpretation. I expected people to make such a lame excuse, I just didn't expect it to be you.

If you buy an AMD 2500+ and overclock it to 3200+ speeds you have just circumented the retail channel for a 3200+ part and therefore you have ripped off AMD for the difference between the cost of the 2 processors. It's all about something for nothing...

Overclocking ain't screwing anybody but copying your DVD is?-yeah right.

Just because overclocking is "popular" out in the open here, doesn't give the practice any higher moral ground.

My good man, it is EXACTLY the same thing. You buy and car and soup up the engine to make it faster, you circumvented buying the more expensive V6 or V8 engine offered by that company as an option. There is ZERO difference.

I paid for a processor that is guaranteed by the manufacturer to do 2GHz, but I managed to make it run faster. I'm simply doing something to a part I paid for legally. If I fry the chip from overclocking it, then I should buy a new chip, not RMA the part as a chip running at rated speed that failed. In that sense I am stealing because I am making the manufacturer pay for me not buying the more expensive chip to begin with. By the same token, no one is saying you can't add mods, cheats, or whatever else to the software that purchased, but at least purchase the software.
11-23-2004, 05:37 PM
Matt_E

Exactly. Software piracy and OC'ing are in no way related. I don't understand how anyone could be trying to make that point?
11-23-2004, 05:37 PM
ewitte

Quote:

Originally posted by Matt_E
Wrong. That may be your definition, but not the legislatures (As I've stated before).

Theft is not necessarily "depriving" someone of something they once had", but rather taking something that belongs to someone else, without permission.

"Taking" is the same thing as "depriving" :) Either way with a copy they still have exactly what the did before.

Eric
11-23-2004, 05:38 PM
mansionman

Quote:

Originally posted by MrDigital
If you don't have it backwards, explain how theft has been wrong for far longer than civilization and laws have existed? Explain how theft is wrong in the animal world where you will get your arse pummeled by whoever you try to take something from?

There is no different perspective except the one permeated by theives trying to justify their actions.

Theft is wrong. It always has been and always will be.

-MrD

CHRIST ON A STICK! Not everything is right and wrong, you can't just lump things into catagories that make it convient for you to understand.

Theives don't have to justify their actions; rarley do they even think about their actions!

You are wrong! you always have and you always will be. Is that right?
11-23-2004, 05:39 PM
ewitte

Quote:

Originally posted by Colossus
steal ( P ) Pronunciation Key (stl)
v. stole, (stl) sto·len, (stln) steal·ing, steals
v. tr.
To take (the property of another) without right or permission.
To get or effect surreptitiously or artfully: steal a kiss; stole the ball from an opponent.
To move, carry, or place surreptitiously.
To draw attention unexpectedly in (an entertainment), especially by being the outstanding performer: The magician's assistant stole the show with her comic antics.
Baseball. To advance safely to (another base) during the delivery of a pitch, without the aid of a base hit, walk, passed ball, or wild pitch.

I don't see anything here that refers to copies :)

Eric
11-23-2004, 05:41 PM
Un4given

Quote:

Originally posted by ewitte
There is a big difference. For one its likely any programmer working on the project is getting a fixed salery reguardless of how many copies are sold. Secondly piracy HELPS sales on occasion. If you put out a good product and your not screwing potential customers.

I don't know about you but I want to know if something I'm about to buy is worth it. Is test driving a car before you buy it immoral? If I don't buy it I don't use it. You can not claim sales or money lost that you never had. I just can not tell my boss "I could have worked OT, you should pay me for it."

Eric

Note quite. While the programmers and anyone else associated with the production are likely paid a salary while working on the project, raises, bonus payments, etc. could all be tied to sales of the product.

My point was that a shady employer may try to pull something like saying they should have gotten more work out of the person for the time they were there, so they are only going to pay them for what they feel the amount work actually done was worth. Not a bit different that people pirating software for whatever lame excuse they can think up.
11-23-2004, 05:41 PM
Matt_E

Quote:

Originally posted by ewitte
I don't see anything here that refers to copies :)

Eric

Read past the first three lines, and you'll find it in line 4. ;) :D :p

Intellectual property, my man.
11-23-2004, 05:47 PM
Colossus

Quote:

Originally posted by mansionman
CHRIST ON A STICK! Not everything is right and wrong, you can't just lump things into catagories that make it convient for you to understand.

Theives don't have to justify their actions; rarley do they even think about their actions!

You are wrong! you always have and you always will be. Is that right?

Christ was on a stick, but I find that rather offensive :D
11-23-2004, 05:59 PM
MrDigital

Quote:

Originally posted by mansionman
Theives don't have to justify their actions; rarley do they even think about their actions!

You are wrong! you always have and you always will be. Is that right?

So why are you trying to justify the actions of thieves?

And if I'm wrong, prove it. I've given you numerous examples how theft is wrong.

-MrD
11-23-2004, 06:14 PM
mansionman

Quote:

Originally posted by MrDigital
So why are you trying to justify the actions of thieves?

And if I'm wrong, prove it. I've given you numerous examples how theft is wrong.

-MrD

I am not trying to justify anything! where did I say I was trying to justify other peoples actions? Not everything is justified. Just because there is justice, does not mean that this is a just world.

I don't have to prove you wrong. I am simply saying that right and wrong and are notional concepts invented to try and simpifly an extremley complex external reality. And that trying to simplify an exremley complex issue with a right and wrong perspective doesn't work.

Obviously you are unaware that a world outside your own exists, and that there are different degrees of right and wrong. So disregard everything I have said, as I am sure you already have, because it was a futile effort on my part.

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