The Official NFL Thread

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Originally Posted by PriMaTe

You can't post up diamonds in the rough like it's a common occurance.

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In my defense, it wasn't like I just picked and chose players through the last decade or something. I just went straight to the playoffs of this year. Both of the QBs in the Super Bowl this year WERE top 10 picks, after all, I just conveniently ignored that. :D

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Originally Posted by PriMaTe

Sure there are 1st round busts at qb but there are busts at all positions in the 1st round, look at the lions.

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Of course there are. I just like my chances enough with later rounds to take other positions in the first. In the same way that a quarterback is very important to an offense so a lot of teams take them early, a good QB can also drop pretty quickly just due to teams not needing a QB; you only really play one per season, barring injuries. Look at Aaron Rodgers a few years ago - Top 10 talent, but nobody needed a QB, so he dropped WAY down. Leinart was a #1 pick a year before he came out, but when he was in the draft he dropped 9 slots due to team needs. Brady Quinn could potentially do the same thing this year.

You pretty much play at LEAST two of every other position at some point in the game (kickers/punters excluded), and most times more than one on any play, so good players at other positions don't tend to drop as much from what I've seen. You can always use two of other positions. If you take a QB in the first round, that is basically guaranteeing your current starter that his days are numbered. You don't have running back controversies or left tackle controversies, you have quarterback controversies.

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Originally Posted by md1198p

I am a beleiver in drafting O-linemen early and often.

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Originally Posted by rabidmoose171

Id hardly consider Roethlesberger first round material.

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I agree with both of these completely, except with Roethlisberger it is more hindsight. I thought he was good coming out of college, late first round maybe second round, but now I find him terribly overrated.

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Originally Posted by md1198p

I am a beleiver in drafting O-linemen early and often.

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Yep. because these days, rushing DE's are like super-athlete/ maniacs who will destroy your QB. Teams have to have monster tackles on hand to deal. You get guys like Ogden, Pace, Jones etc shielding the blindside, and the QB can breathe a little easier and stay confident.

Plus, the right guards will automatically make the running game better. The big uglies are all-important.

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Originally Posted by r'aggro

Yep. because these days, rushing DE's are like super-athlete/ maniacs who will destroy your QB. Teams have to have monster tackles on hand to deal. You get guys like Ogden, Pace, Jones etc shielding the blindside, and the QB can breathe a little easier and stay confident.

Plus, the right guards will automatically make the running game better. The big uglies are all-important.

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Funny that you should mention Ogden, Pace, and Jones; all three were taken in the first round in two back to back years ('96 and '97), and they made up a pretty sick string of OTs (including Kyle Turley, Tony Boselli, and a few others I can't think of right now) taken in the first round that is probably the main factor behind the modern notion that the O-Line is one of the safest positions to draft in the first round.

You also need depth in these positions. Almost every team every year has a lineman or 2 miss at least a few games, its very easy to twist an ankle or something while blocking. Having depth at O-line is critical. How many times to you see a bad exchange between a back up center and QB, or see a lineman come in and right away give up a sack.

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Originally Posted by monroeski

Funny that you should mention Ogden, Pace, and Jones; all three were taken in the first round in two back to back years ('96 and '97), and they made up a pretty sick string of OTs (including Kyle Turley, Tony Boselli, and a few others I can't think of right now) taken in the first round that is probably the main factor behind the modern notion that the O-Line is one of the safest positions to draft in the first round.

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Heck, Boselli was J-ville's first ever pick as an expansion team, and everyone knew it was a great idea. You anchor teams with these guys.

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Originally Posted by md1198p

You also need depth in these positions. Almost every team every year has a lineman or 2 miss at least a few games, its very easy to twist an ankle or something while blocking. Having depth at O-line is critical. How many times to you see a bad exchange between a back up center and QB, or see a lineman come in and right away give up a sack.

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Yeah, I had to sit through some lack at guard last year, as well as a brand new center. Some of the vets went down early in the year, (Tobeck, Womack) and Hutchinson was already gone. So it was rooks and guys like Ashworth playing guard. He's an okay tackle, but was awful at guard and Seattle's very record suffered for it.

Good experience for the young guys at least, Sims and Spencer improved a lot.

TO be honest I don't think roeth is that great of a qb, even though h ewon a sb. I only put him in there because he won a sb so early and he elped me make a point :p . But yea I believe in the line as well. My team, the giants who released the starting LT, may draft a T in the first round. I still don't know why they let petitgout go, he was an above average LT. Sure he's had some injuries, but it's not everyday that your find a good lt

This is Rothlesberger's year to prove himself, we'll see how he does I guess. He did have a pretty rough off season last year.

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Originally Posted by PriMaTe

TO be honest I don't think roeth is that great of a qb, even though h ewon a sb.

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*He* didn't do **** in that superbowl. At any rate Ben R. was far from the reason the Steelers won it.

Raiders cannot draft Calvin unless they ship moss or porter... you would have three deep threat speedy receivers, you would have to have 3 qb's on the field at all times....there is NO WAY any QB can feed all 3 the ball enough to keep them all happy, especially looking at the raiders o-line? not happening... trade moss for a QB (good QB) and draft calvin, moss is old, disgruntled etc...but he still has a ton of skill and talent - trade him off.

then you have porter and johnson, that would be a great tandem.

you can always get a QB in the next draft....will that QB have half the arm russell does? extremely doubtful, but thats how the game goes.

That's a good plan, but the trick will be getting someone to take that baggage. (moss) Particularly in exchange for a decent QB.

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Originally Posted by vairox

Raiders cannot draft Calvin unless they ship moss or porter... you would have three deep threat speedy receivers, you would have to have 3 qb's on the field at all times....there is NO WAY any QB can feed all 3 the ball enough to keep them all happy, especially looking at the raiders o-line? not happening... trade moss for a QB (good QB) and draft calvin, moss is old, disgruntled etc...but he still has a ton of skill and talent - trade him off.

then you have porter and johnson, that would be a great tandem.

you can always get a QB in the next draft....will that QB have half the arm russell does? extremely doubtful, but thats how the game goes.

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This all assumes good personnel skills, which I'm not sure can be assumed with the Raiders. :)

Yea I don't know how you ship moss at this point. I was watching "top 10 draft steals of all time" on NFL network last night. Al Davis was on there a couple times, the fact that he picked a punter in the first round shows that if he wants someone he is going to take them. So if he feels that way about Johnson, then he'll be a Raider, doesn't matter if they have Moss and Porter already.

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Originally Posted by spamjedi

Yea I don't know how you ship moss at this point. I was watching "top 10 draft steals of all time" on NFL network last night. Al Davis was on there a couple times, the fact that he picked a punter in the first round shows that if he wants someone he is going to take them. So if he feels that way about Johnson, then he'll be a Raider, doesn't matter if they have Moss and Porter already.

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Heh I watched part of that the other day too. Then I had to go to work so I missed most of it.

It's a well known fact that Davis likes fast receivers.

I think nobody really knows what the Raiders have at QB anyway, with the terrible line they had in place last year. I know they were pretty high on Andrew Walter before last season, but I'm not sure that you could accurately say he's not the guy with the situations he was put in last season. If they think he can play once they put a line in front of him, Moss-Porter-Johnson would be a RIDICULOUS receiving corp.

This guy thinks the McCown thing is all a smoke screen and the Raiders are already decided on Russell. I hope thats true. I really want Johnson to be on the board at #2.
http://www.insidebayarea.com/sports/ci_5649269

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Originally Posted by spamjedi

This guy thinks the McCown thing is all a smoke screen and the Raiders are already decided on Russell. I hope thats true. I really want Johnson to be on the board at #2.
http://www.insidebayarea.com/sports/ci_5649269

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I just can't imagine what they're trying to screen, unless they're just trying to use the Johnson versus Russell thing as a bargaining tool when they're working on contracts. The pick is all theirs, it's not like they have to throw off who other teams think they're going to take to prevent trade-ups or something.

I say trade Moss, trade down and get a few more picks. The Raiders are in need of too much to invest so much in one draft pick. Johnson has much more upside then Russel. Russel has jumped up the draft board. He jumped way up and that scares me. The D seems fairly young and hungry. Now the Raiders need some O help. Is Johnson a great reciever...yes. Is that the only thing the Raiders need. ....no. He is the best player in the draft. Either get him or trade down. Walter has what looks like potential. Get a few draft picks. Make me proud to be a Raider fan. I have high hopes for the draft and June 1st free agency.

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Originally Posted by monroeski

I just can't imagine what they're trying to screen, unless they're just trying to use the Johnson versus Russell thing as a bargaining tool when they're working on contracts. The pick is all theirs, it's not like they have to throw off who other teams think they're going to take to prevent trade-ups or something.

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Yea I had the same thought, the one thing that I think the article said was they don't like the fact that the Lion's phone is ringing off the hook and theirs isnt. So maybe they want to see what they can get for their pick, but don't believe they are getting the attention the deserve? I dunno.

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Originally Posted by Mindwarper

I say trade Moss, trade down and get a few more picks. The Raiders are in need of too much to invest so much in one draft pick. Johnson has much more upside then Russel. Russel has jumped up the draft board. He jumped way up and that scares me. The D seems fairly young and hungry. Now the Raiders need some O help. Is Johnson a great reciever...yes. Is that the only thing the Raiders need. ....no. He is the best player in the draft. Either get him or trade down. Walter has what looks like potential. Get a few draft picks. Make me proud to be a Raider fan. I have high hopes for the draft and June 1st free agency.

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What you said about Russell scaring you is exactly how I feel. Quinn was the consensus #1 for almost the whole season until one bowl game, then Russell is all of a sudden? I know that I don't know anything about football compared to scouts, coaches, etc. but I would feel nervous about that too. Though I have been Harrington-jaded ;)

I just read something on ESPN, I think earlier today, that was talking about Quinn versus Russell. Basically, it said that since Quinn has been a starter for a while, played in a pro style offense, worked under Weis, etc., and since you have a lot less film on Russell, his work ethic and love of football have been questioned, etc., that even though Russell's ceiling is projected as higher than Quinn's, Quinn's floor is a lot higher than Russell's floor. If you look at it that way, I could easily see trading down for Quinn and some extra picks.

Of course, I haven't been real high on Quinn for a while now. If I were in charge of a team this draft and needed a QB, I would wait until the second or third, neither Russell or Quinn particularly excite me enough to use a pick that high.

mock draft with video hilights for every player

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...rt1/index.html

Russell has a giant arm, he did leap frog like everyone in the draft - it raises concerns, but nearly every scout in the nfl has pegged him as the best QB in the draft according to their own observations of tape and his workout. I don't think you could satisfy a porter/moss/johnson receiving corps even if you had dan marino and joe montana's love child behind center... you just can't, you would have virtually NO running game and everything would be pass-pass-pass, good way to get shut down.

Walter never had a chance, it was ridiculous.... he made some really stupid throws but the guy had intense pressure on him, they need an entirely new o-line.

Just went to ESPN.com and was welcomed by a big picture of Quinn and Russell on their front page. Article is about evaluating and drafting QBs, decent read - http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft0...ohn&id=2839055

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Originally Posted by monroeski

Just went to ESPN.com and was welcomed by a big picture of Quinn and Russell on their front page. Article is about evaluating and drafting QBs, decent read - http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft0...ohn&id=2839055

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definately a good read. I mean the top three QB picks last year so far look like they will do well, Manning2 and Rivers are decent, but go back to Harrington and Carr and its a diffent story. There's nothing riskier than a QB in the top 5.