Far Cry SS - NO 56K - Test your IQ Knowledge

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Originally posted by OpStar
You can say what you want SIR but I game on BOTH high end cards currently available ON THE MARKET with the same IQ settings.

Kthx.

I respect the UT benchmark but c'mon Nascar Thunder 2004? Please...

While I'm sure there are lots of Nascar enthusiasts, I can come up with some titles where nV is at least 20% faster.

That isn't the point. MY POINT WAS THAT NVIDIA AND ATI OFFER COMPARABLE IQ.

Nothing at all was said about speed.

IN FACT, I explicity said that for IQ fps wasn't important, AND I said that my ATi card was faster.

Kthx.

I also posted High Quality shots when they were requested, and none of you commented on them, OR on the IQ differences of Ackmed's shots.

All you did was turn this IQ discussion into a frame rate discussion because ATi is faster so therefore the fact that both companies offer the same IQ is irrelevant somehow (it isn't).

You guys can call me a fanboy all you want, just do so while looking in a mirror.

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Well, to be honest, your comparison wasn't very informative. In a side by side comparison (thanks Ackmed) I could certainly tell a difference in AA quality between the 9800 and 5900. Especially in the scene with the scope zoomed on the oil rig, it is very apparent. Take a look at the support lines on nvda :eek: (gross). In most places in these pictures the difference is not as big, but unfortunately, in motion I like ATI's AA way better than nvidia's. It is not quite as bad as 4xAA vs. 2xAA, but the difference is there. But the fact that ATI is nearly twice as fast with BETTER IQ (whether or not you think so is irrelevent) makes it superior. There is no ambiguity in the statement that the 9800 series smokes the 5900 series in Far Cry. And yes, the 9700pro is a better card in many cases than the 5900nu. Proof? Here is a little dosage:
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/...view/page5.asp

The 5900nu loses in:
Nascar (except in 1600 the 5900nu wins by 1%) , Il2 (33% at 1600), Serious Sam (by up to 14% at 1600, though it loses at 800*600 by 4%), Quake 3 (by up to 15%), and other tests. In some cases with AA and AF enabled the 5900nu is faster due to sheer bandwith. Props to nvidia there. In fact, Nvidia wins many dx8/dx7 tests. But how about in dx9? Ah yes, there it takes the biggest beating.

I know it loses in DX9 kthx.

You aren't showing me a review I haven't read by the way either.

But, um, thanks?

I don't need to take side by side screenshots.

I like making people DECIDE which is which ::gasp::

Go figure, eh?

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Originally posted by OpStar
I respect the UT benchmark but c'mon Nascar Thunder 2004? Please...

While I'm sure there are lots of Nascar enthusiasts, I can come up with some titles where nV is at least 20% faster.

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Please do: I didn't put much effort into looking for benchmarks, the Tom's article is about the most commonly cited one on the subject. Can you show me one where an NV is 20% faster with AF/AA enabled?

D-E-N-I-A-L

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I also posted High Quality shots when they were requested, and none of you commented on them, OR on the IQ differences of Ackmed's shots.

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What comment is needed besides the HQ shots look light years better than the medium quality shots? Several people (including me) said that. I focused on your deception becaus thats what annoyed me.

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Heh, you guys didn't have a problem with this statement UNTIL AFTER Ackmed proved that IQ between a 5900NU and an ATi 9800XT were ALMOST IDENTICAL.

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Well, when the comparison is dishonest, we're gonna nitpick you when we find out. Tough. -and conversations evolve. If we had immediately flagged you on theh fps issue after your first post, you'd have been pissed. It doesn't mean we didn't think it was relevant at the time, just that we stayed with your question as it was posed. Thats called being polite. I'll remember you said this though: from now on, every time you mention an Nvidia card, I'll be there to remind you its far behind the equivalent level ATI card.

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DOES A 5900 NON ULTRA AND A 9800XT HAVE COMPARABLE IQ: YES.

CAN YOU PLAY WITH A 5900NU AT HIGH IQ SETTINGS AND ACHIEVE THE SAME FRAME RATE AS A 9800XT: NO

Which conversation are we having?

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You don't see how the second question is related to and absolutely essential to the context of question one? You asked the first question and we tried to answer it. We got to the second question later becauase we wanted to see what your point was.

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We were having a total IQ discussion, and now its about IQ/FPS because someone proved that nV's IQ is ALMOST IDENTICAL to ATi's.

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:confused: :confused: We stipulated to this point verrry early in the conversation. There isn't anything else to discuss except your implication that because the image quality is equal the cards are on equal footing. They are most certainly not.

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I don't need to take side by side screenshots.

I like making people DECIDE which is which ::gasp::

Go figure, eh?

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Yeah, go figure: 'which is better: this nvidia, this nvidia, or this nvidia?' 'See, just as good as ATI!' Um, yeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaahhhh.....

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Originally posted by russ_watters
Please do: I didn't put much effort into looking for benchmarks, the Tom's article is about the most commonly cited one on the subject. Can you show me one where an NV is 20% faster with AF/AA enabled?

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Ok, as I admitted, I didn't put a lot of effort into looking. In my defense though, I was comparing an obsolte/discontinued ATI offering to Nvidia's current top of the line - not easy to find good comparisons, and not exactly a fair comparison either. So HERE is a more extensive comparison of the 5950U and the 9800xt. And I found a test where the 5950U is 20% faster than the 9800xt with af/aa enabled: Jedi Knight at 1280x1024 - 24.4%. So there you go - you can have that one. The article tests 11 games, and in 4, the 5950U is faster even with AF/AA enabled. Those would be the GL games. Including those, the 9800xt is on average 18.5% faster. Thats still an awful lot, but I found a scenario under which I'd recommend an Nvidia card: if you're exclusively an OpenGL game player. Otherwise...

I'll do midrange cards tonight - there, its a little closer.

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Originally posted by russ_watters
I'll do midrange cards tonight - there, its a little closer.

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By midrange if you mean the 5700U and the 9600XT they are almost identical.

You know, you aren't really saying anything I haven't said.

I admit freely that ATi is faster at DX9.

I admit freely that ATi has faster AA (quality is a matter of opinion at this point).

I'm well aware that OpenGL games are faster on the nVidia platform.

I wasn't attempting to be dishonest at all, it was taken that way.

I said three setups, and I did say ati/nV in my posts.

My entire point of the first post was that I could post 3 sets of screenshots from an nV card @ different settings and people would conclude that one set was ATi simply becuase I own an ATi card.

You can call it deception if you will, but its really just like a "pepsi challenge".

If you have a pepsi challenge w/o coke and people guess that ONE is coke, they are in fact telling themselves one is because they WANT to like a different product better.

The entire reason I wasn't bringing FPS up as an issue is because this whole discussion would be retarded to have.

ATi = faster with AA/AF enabled in almost every scenario.

I play 10x7 so I can play with a nV card @ 4x/8x and get away with it, but a lot of shark's play at higher resolutions and I realize this.

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I'll remember you said this though: from now on, every time you mention an Nvidia card, I'll be there to remind you its far behind the equivalent level ATI card.

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That I never said. I can't even realistically do that w/o making myself look like a fool, now can I?

The ONLY TIME I can do that is when comparing a 5700 Ultra to a 9600XT because their performance is essentially a draw from all the reviews I've read (published and web).

Have I made myself look like an *** before? YUP. Good for you for "showing me up".

Oh, btw:

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Please do: I didn't put much effort into looking for benchmarks, the Tom's article is about the most commonly cited one on the subject. Can you show me one where an NV is 20% faster with AF/AA enabled?

D-E-N-I-A-L

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So HERE is a more extensive comparison of the 5950U and the 9800xt. And I found a test where the 5950U is 20% faster than the 9800xt with af/aa enabled: Jedi Knight at 1280x1024 - 24.4%. So there you go - you can have that one. The article tests 11 games, and in 4, the 5950U is faster even with AF/AA enabled. Those would be the GL games. Including those, the 9800xt is on average 18.5% faster. Thats still an awful lot, but I found a scenario under which I'd recommend an Nvidia card: if you're exclusively an OpenGL game player. Otherwise...

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Thank you for saving me the trouble of looking that up (and making you look like an ***).

Anyways Russ, I suppose you've made your point :confused:

DON'T TRUST KENNETH THE NVIDIA GUY, HE MAKES US USE OUR BRAINS INSTEAD OF SPOON FEEDING US WHAT WE WANT TO HEAR.

You know, I only play a few DX games, most of mine are OpenGL ::gasp::

Weird, eh?

<3 OpStar! :cool:

Why thank you sir :)

As far as the initial shots go. It's not a lot like the pepsi challenge is it. That did actually involve more than one product.
As far as the high quality shots go I personally see no difference whatsoever, but as several people have already said, the point you make is a stupid one. Both cards have the same IQ in static images. Cheers for that. I'll definately keep it in mind next time I want to use my PC as a glorified slide projector.

Funny, that was my point too :/

WHO DOES care about static images?

Not me.

Thank you for proving my point again.

BTW: The Pepsi Challenge sometimes had only Pepsi in it. That's why they quit doing it.

baH! I prefer coke anyway. :D

I only drink milk/juice/water :o

Cranberry Juice? Perhaps with a touch of Vodka? mMMm :D

I like Cranberry Grape juice but I don't drink alcohol :p

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Originally posted by OpStar
BTW: The Pepsi Challenge sometimes had only Pepsi in it. That's why they quit doing it.

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Precisely the point. A better example I couldn't have come up with - it was useless so they stopped doing it. Worse, it was unethical (in their case, borderline illegal).

Take a cue from Pepsi.

If that was your point then you selected a fairly unclear way of illustrating it, and possibly need to address some issues you might have communicating your thoughts with clarity.