The Official NFL Thread

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Originally Posted by spamjedi

Now this is just my opinion here but as far as raw talent Vick > Manning. But, obviously Manning is the far superior quarterback. Manning is extremely talented, but I think its his game management, and coach-like knowledge that makes him great.

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I don't really even think Vick is more talented than Manning, but I think that's because I generally expand the definition past physical attributes. I figure that since all personalities are different, and some people just do not have the same decision making skills that others do, then those mental attributes count as talent as well. Some people are just faster than others, some are just stronger than others, and some just make better decisions than others (without going into conservative QBs versus gunslingers, etc., which is subjective).

I guess I'm in the minority on that, since 90% of people you ask will say that Vick is more talented than Manning.

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Originally Posted by monroeski

I don't really even think Vick is more talented than Manning, but I think that's because I generally expand the definition past physical attributes. I figure that since all personalities are different, and some people just do not have the same decision making skills that others do, then those mental attributes count as talent as well. Some people are just faster than others, some are just stronger than others, and some just make better decisions than others (without going into conservative QBs versus gunslingers, etc., which is subjective).

I guess I'm in the minority on that, since 90% of people you ask will say that Vick is more talented than Manning.

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Good point. But kind of like you hinted we then have to define talent, and thats a whole other can of worms I suppose. But in the spirit... I personally would say that Vick seems more physically talented than Manning.

And keeping with the spirit, Manning is more mentally talented than Vick :p

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Originally Posted by Gar

And keeping with the spirit, Manning is more mentally talented than Vick :p

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lol

A bit late the the party I'm sure, but I was pretty happy the Colts won. Though I really didn't want the Bears to win, especially by blowing the Saints out.

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Originally Posted by spamjedi

Good point. But kind of like you hinted we then have to define talent, and thats a whole other can of worms I suppose. But in the spirit... I personally would say that Vick seems more physically talented than Manning.

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Physically talented, there's no question. Vick could crawl a 40 faster than Manning could do it on a bike. :D

There is more to athleticism than how fast you can run or how much weight you can lift.

raiders have ronald curry cayching balls...which would be REALLY interesting if vick went to the raiders if you know the whole curry/vick story.... would be funny to see them playing together, also they got doug gabriel back, who is underrated IMO....other than that, 6' 4" morant but he hasn't does much of anything.... whatever happened to speedy carlos francis? last i heard be broke a leg 2 seasons ago and no one has heard from him since, maybe they cut him.

either way it mdoesn't matter, adding vick only assures them of going .400

anyone see the lane kiffin press conference? he was there with al davis, trying to convince the world and raider nation that the raiders were back.... al davis looked like the crypt keeper ! shaking his finger at the camera trying to convince people that the raiders were back at the top and lane kiffin was bringing them there....whatever geezer, you make my team look bad a-hole.

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Originally Posted by vairox

raiders have ronald curry cayching balls...which would be REALLY interesting if vick went to the raiders if you know the whole curry/vick story.... would be funny to see them playing together, also they got doug gabriel back, who is underrated IMO....other than that, 6' 4" morant but he hasn't does much of anything.... whatever happened to speedy carlos francis? last i heard be broke a leg 2 seasons ago and no one has heard from him since, maybe they cut him.

either way it mdoesn't matter, adding vick only assures them of going .400

anyone see the lane kiffin press conference? he was there with al davis, trying to convince the world and raider nation that the raiders were back.... al davis looked like the crypt keeper ! shaking his finger at the camera trying to convince people that the raiders were back at the top and lane kiffin was bringing them there....whatever geezer, you make my team look bad a-hole.

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At least you have something to get back to, all I have is consistent sucking for 50 years.

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Originally Posted by spamjedi

At least you have something to get back to, all I have is consistent sucking for 50 years.

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not really, millen will be assassinated by a determined detroit fan....fans can only take that asshat for so long.... it's torture, i'm glad i'm not a lions fan! you guys have a decent offense, kitna was underrated but still made a lot of mistakes, you need a QB and a dead millen.

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Originally Posted by vairox

not really, millen will be assassinated by a determined detroit fan....fans can only take that asshat for so long.... it's torture, i'm glad i'm not a lions fan! you guys have a decent offense, kitna was underrated but still made a lot of mistakes, you need a QB and a dead millen.

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We need a o-line. Nobody follows other teams o-lines but trust me ours had to be one of the worst. I think Kitna was the most sacked qb in the league, but Im not sure. The fact that he started every game and played every snap is a miracle.

We also need a middle linebacker who can handle the tampa two. I think we're screwed by that number 2 overall pick, theres no one there we need and whos gonna trade up with us? So we'll take another QB bust or something.

Heh, Kitna WAS the most sacked QB this year.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/stats/by...meframe=ToDate

Almost the most intercepted too. Still had a decent rating though and threw up good yards and a decent number of TDs.

EDIT: Although, overall, the Raiders o-line is still the worst in the game. Combine Brooks and Walter and you get 72 sacks on the year.

wow, peyton is the least sacked starting QB...14? thats less than 1 a game....crazy.

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Lions offensive coordinator Mike Martz said that a couple of team officials, including Matt Millen, took Wisconsin tackle Joe Thomas to dinner Monday night. The 6-foot-7, 310-pound tackle was scheduled to play Saturday but pulled out, telling Senior Bowl officials he wasn't in playing shape. He is expected to be a top-five pick.
-- Detroit Free Press

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not in playing shape? is this how the lions address their o-line problems? haha.

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Originally Posted by rabidmoose171

There is more to athleticism than how fast you can run or how much weight you can lift.

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For every one measure in which Manning is more physically athletic than Vick, there are 6 that go the other way.

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Originally Posted by MrDigital

EDIT: Although, overall, the Raiders o-line is still the worst in the game. Combine Brooks and Walter and you get 72 sacks on the year.

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4.5 per game. That's freaking embarrassing.

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Originally Posted by vairox

not in playing shape? is this how the lions address their o-line problems? haha.

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Honestly, if I was projected as a top 5 pick, there is just about no way I would have signed up to play the Senior Bowl in the first place. You can really only make yourself look worse when you're already that high, and while All-Star games are always fun to play in, you're talking about a LOT of risk with not too much reward.

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Originally Posted by MrDigital

So "why the hell" did you take away this year for Vick?

Manning is easily the best QB in the league, and his numerous 100+ QB rating seasons attest to that. He might not be the guy you want to win a superbowl, but from raw talent he's untouchable.

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I didn't. Just the stats page for Vick had his winning % posted prior to this year and I didn't feel like doing math. I was pretty obvious in stating where the stat came from.

I never said Manning wasn't the best, I just said I like Vick.

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Originally Posted by monroeski

I guess I'm in the minority on that, since 90% of people you ask will say that Vick is more talented than Manning.

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I highly doubt that. Vick is extremely physically athletic but thats about it. Manning is an all around perfect QB and is waaaay more talented than Vick. Manning is the king right now no one can come near his talent.
The times that I have seen Manning scramble, he is NOT slow. He isnt fast thats for sure, but he can run if he has to (he had like 5 running TDs in the regular season and one in the playoffs i do believe)