Atlanta already has Joey Harrington!! They need not worry about the QB position.Quote:
Originally Posted by vairox
:p
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Atlanta already has Joey Harrington!! They need not worry about the QB position.Quote:
Originally Posted by vairox
:p
You're still missing him, aren't you.;)Quote:
Originally Posted by spamjedi
I still think that Harrington is a decent QB. He did alright with Miami considering Miami's issues (i.e. no offensive line).Quote:
Originally Posted by r'aggro
In fact, I think that's it's no small wonder that he's even in the league anymore considering how his confidence should have been destroyed in Detroit.
No QB could have done well in that situation... not even Joe Montana.
No recievers to throw to. No running game. No offensive line. And constantly playing "catch up" (re: passing on every down) because of no defense.
And yet the expectations were that he was going to come in and single handedly turn Detroit around ALONE.
No QB would have looked good in Detroit in those years.
I was actually unhappy when Miami let him walk. But I didn't see the "bigger plan" of getting Green there. Now it's all good. If I were Miami, I'd be content letting Culpepper sit for a year and rehab his knee if need be.
Mobility is a big part of Culpepper's game. And with a torn ACL, most players are not the same player that they were for at least 2 seasons. My understanding is that Culpepper had his ACL, and two other ligaments torn (i.e. even more problematic than just rehabbing the ACL).
I wouldn't mind seeing Miami asking Culpepper to take a pay cut in the meantime though... I think that'd be fair.
I'd be happy if Miami played Green for a year or two until Culpepper came up to speed. I think that Culpepper could be the long term solution at QB.
I was a Harrington fan for a while, but notice the "was". This is going to sound weird but now that I've seen Kitna lead my team for 16 games, man what a difference. Forget the stats, offensive line, running game, playing from behind, whatever... Joey had little leadership ability. To see what Kitna did with many of the same team mates really brought this to light.
I'm a one of the rare ones, no ill will towards Joey, but at the same time I'm glad he's gone. Probably not as glad as he is to be gone though ;)
Hmmmm.... maybe being a Lions fan you notice the intangibles that don't show up on the scoresheet?Quote:
Originally Posted by spamjedi
I know one thing... I was more impressed with Harrington than I ever was with Jay Fielder. I had some level of confidence in Harrington that I never had with Fielder.
Yea like I said I was a fan of his at one point. He's a decent player, but when you have a young struggling team he isn't the guy who is going to show them how to be disciplined. I was at a game where Joey drove the field for a game tying drive. I've seen him make some pretty nice throws. He played on a horrible team. So I'm not a Joey-hater, but he isn't the guy who's going to set a winning example to a young team, and he isn't anyone you're going to build a franchise around.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spank_Me_Hard
The perfect guy to plug into a good situation?Quote:
Originally Posted by spamjedi
A new age Mark Rypien?
yea, who knows?Quote:
Originally Posted by Spank_Me_Hard
Well, said scenerio hasn't happened yet with Harrington.Quote:
Originally Posted by spamjedi
He has played with one absolutely awful situation, and one less than ideal one.
Who knows... maybe if he was plugged in someplace he would really flourish.
I don't think he's near as bad as he is portrayed to be. And I saw him enjoy some level of success in Miami. He was definitely an upgrade from Fielder.
Jay Feidler actually had a very high win percentage when he was on the dolphins. I think i remember seeing something on ESPN like 3 years ago saying he had the highest winning percentage out of all winning QB's, behind Kurt Warner.
True.Quote:
Originally Posted by rabidmoose171
And yet even with a stellar D, and at the time one of the games top RBs (Williams) he couln't even lead his team to the playoffs.
As a Phins fan, I watched WAY too many games where his general ineptness could not win the game.
HIS situation at the time was radically different than Harrington's in Detroit.
His winning percentage may have been good... but nobody was ever going to confuse him with being a quality QB. In this case, the stats lied.
I know. I just felt like throwing it out there.
Harrington is one step below McCown...please dude, he can't juggle culpepper's jock strap.
edit: can't get over seeing moss in patriot gear, looks photoshopped, like he doesn't fit... square peg/round hole.... crazy, will take a LONG time to get used to it, just now getting used to TO in a philly uniform, I'm way late on that.
People keep talking about Culpepper like he's still a good QB. When Moss left he was TERRIBLE. Then he gets a nasty injury. "recovers" then is HORRIBLE again, and now is still rehabbing it. I think Culpepper is done.
I still wonder how good that he is.Quote:
Originally Posted by spamjedi
There were games where he looked brilliant, and games where he didn't impress. I've been having a hard time determining this guys talent since he entered the league.
But a big part of his game is mobility. Not only running for yardage, and escaping sacks... but also getting outside the pocket and having the defenses coverage break down. And right now he doesn't have that same mobility.
When you look at good players who are recovering from an ACL tear, most have rehabilitated the injury in about a year, but NONE are the same player that they were the next year. I can't think of ONE case. Usually by year two after an injury greatness starts to show itself again.
And Culpepper didn't just tear his ACL, but two other ligaments too I think. The PCL in particular is extremely difficult to rehab from. So Culpepper's case is quite extreme. I think that this year is the REAL year to watch with him. And I'll be pissed if the Phins give up on him too early.
Good QBs don't exactly grow on trees and Green only has a shelf life of a few more years. If I was the Phins, I'd ask him to take a paycut to help out for the next year or two. And I'd have an open competition between him and Green for the starting QB role.
One thing that I do think is that the league overvalues QBs based on their running ability now. I'll take a pocket passer like Manning who can read a defense and make the right decisions/throws any day of the week over a scrambling Vick or McNabb. And I would add a healthy Culpepper to this category as well.
My buddy and I were talking yesterday and he would have the Lions do whatever it would take to get Culpepper. Pure discussion, nothing behind it. I think he's nuts. Culpepper was TERRIBLE before the injury and fully healthy the second Moss left for Oakland. I don't know, I just think Moss was a big part of his success, add on to that a devestating knee injury...
Moss needs Culpepper almost as much as Culpepper needs Moss.
Culpepper on the lions would be a good idea...there are 2 guys better than randy moss on that team to catch balls, it would be crazy.
Right...Quote:
Originally Posted by vairox
Maybe Calvin Johnson. No one else. Who even knows about him. Lets see after this year, and we can compare his rookie season with Moss's insane rookie year.
Maybe he means better right now, not career wise? Even so you can't say that about Johnson yet, he hasn't even played a game yet. Though obviously I hope that is the case ;) You might be able to make a case that Williams is better than Moss right now. Its hard to say with the terrible years in Oakland, but maybe Moss has been on the decline for the last couple of years, he is getting older.Quote:
Originally Posted by rabidmoose171
Roy Williams and Calvin Johnson are better than Moss at the present time, yes moss has been on the upswing as of late (very late as in this week) but I would have to see him play in games to see if he truely is, as he has said, back to his deep threat one handed grabbing afro sporting self...till then I'm gonna say those 2 detroit receivers are better at this point - defenses are going to have hell trying to cover both guys
I hope so!!! Though I have said that before for various combinations of Charles Rogers, Roy Williams, and Mike Williams. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by vairox
You can argue that they're better at this point, but why? When you're talking about Culpepper and say the Lions have 2 guys better than Moss, it is assumed that you're talking about Moss when Culpepper played with him, back in his glory days. The comparison doesn't really mean anything otherwise, especially since Culpepper and Moss haven't played together in what, 2 or 3 years now?Quote:
Originally Posted by vairox
I'm saying those 2 guys are better targets, can seperate better and are faster....I don't buy 30 year old moss running a 4.2 40 yard dash. Calvin Johnson is no mike williams, he is the real deal and I see him producing immediately.
I don't think Culpepper will be a starter again. He hasn't looked good for 3 or 4 years. He acts as his own agent and that makes it harder. He deals with the club on a player and professional agent level. It is hard to seperate. He should focus on playing and let an agent do his job, find the right fit for the right money. I doubt he will be a starter again and think he is on his way out. Or at least of the nfl. He might be a good cfl or arena player.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spank_Me_Hard