I agree. I really think Culpepper is done. However, I can't see him ever going to the cfl or arena league. I gotta think he would retire before doing that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mindwarper
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I agree. I really think Culpepper is done. However, I can't see him ever going to the cfl or arena league. I gotta think he would retire before doing that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mindwarper
3 seasons ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mindwarper
http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/133263
Last year he was rushed into action before he was ready. Only played 4 games.
The year before was the year that he was injured. Only played half the season... stats were bad. His first year without Moss I think.
The season before, 39 TDs and 11 INTs. 69% of passes completed for a QB rating of 110.
Phenomenal season.
It looks like he is being a baby with the Phins. The Phins gave up a 2nd rounder to get him, and he's demanding to be released. The Phins want to trade him and recoup SOMETHING for their troubles. But he says that he'll nix any trade.
This irritates me to no end.
He is property of the Phins at this point. How can he have ANY say in what they do with him?
If he carries this on, I'll lose any respect that I had for him.
Culpepper will be cut and signed 4 times before he is out of the NFL. Teams are always desperate for a QB. Look at what Randall Cunningham did after taking a year or 2 off. I think he was the league MVP for Minnesota. Teams will continue to take a chance on him regaining his old form.Quote:
Originally Posted by spamjedi
I totally agree that I would rather have them than Moss right now; I just don't really see any connection between present day Culpepper and present day Moss; haven't played together for a while, and basically zero chance that they will play together again. I think a better comparison would be between Detroit's receivers today versus Moss when he and Culpepper were both with the Vikings.Quote:
Originally Posted by vairox
No trade clause maybe? Not sure if he has one. That, or he could just let all the other teams know that he'll raise hell, retire, generally be a bad teammate, etc. if a trade is made to a team that he doesn't want to join.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spank_Me_Hard
I think with Robert Smith at RB, with a good O-Line, and with Moss/Carter/Reed at the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by WolfNoob
That would have made Joey Harrington look good!
:eek:
So did Jake Plummer for a few years.Quote:
Originally Posted by rabidmoose171
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slu...v=ap&type=lgns
Chad Wins by a mile lol. This guy is too much.
How could you put Harrington in the same thought as Cunningham. Cunningham may have had the best deep ball in the history of football. No one threw a pass as far and as high as him, it just dropped straight down in the recievers hands. If he had any help on offense in Philly, with him and thay defense, they would have probably won a superbowl. Buddy Ryan wasted him, most of their offensive plays only had one option to pass, then run if not open. You saw what he could do with a real NFL offense when he was with the Vikings, he was past his prime and still won a MVP. This is all IMO, but i think had he been playing for a team with some othher talent on offense, and a real NFL offensive game plan, he would be a first ballet hall of famer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spank_Me_Hard
Easy! Any QB can benefit greatly by being put in the perfect situation.Quote:
How could you put Harrington in the same thought as Cunningham.
The aforemention Mark Rypien:
http://www.pro-football-reference.co...s/RypiMa00.htm
SB year in 1991... 28 TDs, 11 INTs
Cunningham's best year:
http://www.pro-football-reference.co...s/CunnRa00.htm
His best year in 1998... 34 TDs, 10 INTs
Granted, Cunningham's best year was better... but you should be able to get the idea... an average QB (i.e. Rypien) can look brilliant in a good environment. And in 1998... in a perfect system with diminished physical skills... Cunningham was just that... an average QB in a great system.
Wow. Now THAT is a pretty bold statement!Quote:
Cunningham may have had the best deep ball in the history of football.
There has been some pretty good QBs over the years... much better QBs than Cunningham ever was that come to mind.
Manning, Marino, and Elway come to mind.
Well, he did have some degree of talent around him on offense... it wasn't a total wash.Quote:
If he had any help on offense in Philly, with him and thay defense, they would have probably won a superbowl.
Mike Quick was a good WR for a few years. Keith Jackson was one of the games best TEs. Buddy Ryan cut Cris Carter. And Keith Byars was a pass catching DEMON out of the backfield. And wasn't Ricky Waters in Philly for one year with Cunningham?
So while Philly's O did leave somwething to be desired at times... it wasn't like Cunningham never had ANY talent around him. He did have some.
And just as I think that some QBs in todays game rely too much on their legs, and not enough on reading defenses to make plays (i.e. Micheal Vick) I think that Cunningham in his prime was the same way. Keep him in the pocket, and collapse it around him while forcing him to make the right read and the game is yours.
And it's nothing more than speculation... but I think that Harrington was put in the same situation as Cunningham in 1998 in Minnesota... that Harrington looks like the second coming of Joe Montana too.
In fact... looking at Harrington's numbers and considering the team around him for his entire career... I don't think that they look that bad.
Granted they are not great... but nor are they Vinny Testaverde-ish (in Tampa Bay) either. In fact, in 2004 he had 19 TDs and 12 INTs... Any Detroit fan will tell you... those ain't Andre Ware numbers there.
When Cunningham was in his prime in Philly, Fred Barnet was his best receiver...enough said. But the main thing working against him was the offensive system...or lack of one. I have read many accounts from different players on that team that have said Ryans game plan just wanted the offense to score 17 points and let the defense do the rest. Thats just stupid. A one look offense will never work, and thats what most of there plays called for. As for relieing on his legs, he was TOLD to run as much as possible by the coaching staff. That killed both his passing numbers, and also hindered his progress as a QB early. How can a QB learn to go though progressions when there are none?Quote:
Originally Posted by Spank_Me_Hard
I also did not say he was the best QB, but that he threw the best deep ball. I still say that. Out of the 3 you listed, none threw the deep ball better than him, and I always considered Elway a litle overrated. Look at some film from Randalls Minn. days, the receiver only had to have half a step and the ball just fell straight down into his arms.
I think that's kind of his point. Harrington would need to be in a perfect/great situation. Cunningham looked good though he never really had much help.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spank_Me_Hard
it's all about rodney peete.
And everyone clamoring for Erik Kramer to play lol.
Mike Quick was a great reciever and I think that he played with Cunningham as well. In Quick's later years, and in Cunningham's early years... but I still think that they were together (when Quick was still a Pro Bowler).Quote:
When Cunningham was in his prime in Philly, Fred Barnet was his best receiver...enough said.
And Jackson was one of the best TEs in the business at that time. Not a WR... but a very valuable guy to throw to. As was Byars.
And if he played with Ricky Waters, then he had a good RB for at least one season.
Yes it is. I was never a fan of Ryan as a head coach.Quote:
I have read many accounts from different players on that team that have said Ryans game plan just wanted the offense to score 17 points and let the defense do the rest. Thats just stupid.
Yea. I read it as that and responded to it.Quote:
I also did not say he was the best QB, but that he threw the best deep ball.
Marino with the Marks (Clayton and Duper) brothers was a formidable deep passing combo. As is Harrison/Manning.
As was also Elway back in the beginning with the "Three Amigos" (Vance Johnson, Mark Jackson, and Ricky Nattiel).
As I said... pretty bold statement considering some of the other deep ball combos in the game.
A judgement call. And quite a bold one on your part I think.Quote:
I still say that. Out of the 3 you listed, none threw the deep ball better than him, and I always considered Elway a litle overrated. Look at some film from Randalls Minn. days, the receiver only had to have half a step and the ball just fell straight down into his arms.
And that was my point... in Minnesota, Cunningham had LOTS of help... with diminished physical skills.Quote:
Originally Posted by monroeski
Even in Philly, it wasn't like he had no help... he did have some talent around him. You can't blame it all on the players around him. And he did have a great D that kept him from being forced to rely on a one dimensional offense to get him "back" in the game. If you only ask him to contribute (re: not singlehandedly score) to 14 points and he can't do it... that says something.
On where Culpepper may end up:
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/6910928?MSNHPHMA
Keep in mind... this is right wing propaganda that is Faux News!
:)
I almost closed the window automatically after seeing the Patriots on there. This guy isn't even trying to hide his attempt at sensationalism.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spank_Me_Hard
The fact that Culpepper is acting as his own agent is part of the problem. I don't think any team is going to pay him 5.5 mil. I don't think he'll be a starter. In fact, I doubt he will make a good back up. He's all about himself. He should work with the fins, not make statements that he can't back up. If he is traded, he has few options other then retiring or acting unprofessional. I didn't like him much before, now I dislike him. I just hope he doesn't end up at the raiders. We seem to get other teams dreck lately. Bring us your aging, slow and injured players.
eh, no.Quote:
Originally Posted by md1198p
He was a great passer, just kinda funny looking.:D
Again...just IMO. You want to talk situations, Elway did not put up GREAT numbers until he had Davis running the ball, Sharpe(maybe the most prolific pass catching TE ever), etc. Before that his numbers where above average I guess, a lot of passing yards, barely over 1:1 TD to INT ratio, and not a great completion %. He did have the 4th quarter come backs, but he also lost a few superbowls where he did not play all that well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Snakespy
Like any seahawks fan I hated the guy for years, yet I couldn't help but be happy for him when he finally got a ring. He's a HOF'er either way.
elways is better than average, huge whiner though....original ecry manning
I was actually quite surprised when I looked up Elway's stats... they were not as eye popping as I thought that they would be.Quote:
Originally Posted by md1198p
"Overrated" may not be much of a stretch.
Still... I do remember him being the only reason why they won some games. 4th quarter comebacks and all. The kind of stuff that may not always show up on the stat sheets.
And I do remember him having an absolute cannon for an arm.
I'll pre-empt this by saying that I was, and never have been an Elway fan.
But I do remember one game where he made the #1 cardinal violation of being a QB in the NFL... he threw back across his body to the other side of the field to a reciever.
That is something that no QB is told EVER to do.
And yet Elway not only did it, but did it in spectacular fashion and got away with it. It was a bullet to the reciever and resulted in a crucial gain on the play.
I don't think that many QBs could have got away with that throw... and I remember the announcers saying as much.
I would not hold Elway in the same regard as I hold Joe Montana... but I do think that he did some things that do not show up on the stat sheet.