several exciting new things at end of year

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08-18-2003, 05:01 AM
Thunderbird1GHz

several exciting new things at end of year

1. pci express. it might appear on high end mobos at end of 2003. It should be on all mobos by end of 2004.

2. radeon9900 pro. doesnt seem exciting except the fact itll lower prices on 9800s.

3. fx5700. the successor to the fx5600, could compete against the 9800se

4. fx6000, although it may have been delayed or cancled

5. nv40. I dont see even a paper lauch happening so soon, seeing the 9900 pro will lauch by time for xmas rush

6. can anyone confirm a paper lauch of the loci at end of 2003?

7. pc4000 ram........hope the timings are good as well

8. prescotts.....hope those overclock better than the northwoods

9. athlon 64.......the first ones may be .13 and frankly dont sound so impressive........the .09 ones will be far better
08-18-2003, 06:28 AM
Sharkyfan22

Jealous that you cant afford any of those?? ;)
08-19-2003, 03:45 AM
Thunderbird1GHz

Lets discuss that stuff. so I hear in september, about a month from now itll be the fx6000 ultra against the 9900 pro. from what speculation I read, those two cards are basically higher clocked versons with minor changes in the core, perhaps a bug fix or a single tweak. That doesnt need additional transistors, just fine tuning the existing core for improved efficienty and IQ.

9900 pro may be 420/400 although I hope its 450/400 now that would really be nice :) the fx6000 ultra may be 525/1000 :eek:

There should be fx5700(ultra) at 500/650 but 256 bit ram. The non ultra may be like 400/400 and would be quite cheap to produce too. The ultra may be as good as a 9700 non pro or even a pro due to core speed and memory bandwith. would be what the fx5800 shoulda been I guess. ATI will have something rv360 but not sure what itll be, maybe its the 9800le or a radeon9750?

fx6000u vs 9900 pro

fx5700u vs 9750 pro

then nv40 could be fx6500 against Loci3000
08-19-2003, 04:23 AM
Psycho Evangelion

o, tbird can afford it all. if he sold his old useless cards! sorry, just had to say it. me and tbird are on good terms:D
08-19-2003, 07:24 AM
TimisoaraKill

Re: several exciting new things at end of year

Quote:

Originally posted by Thunderbird1GHz

1. pci express. it might appear on high end mobos at end of 2003. It should be on all mobos by end of 2004.

9. athlon 64.......the first ones may be .13 and frankly dont sound so impressive........the .09 ones will be far better

Must luve this stuff :)

Edit:/ Man , i still dunno how you people don't find the Opteron impressive . The 1.6 GHZ match the 2.8 GHZ P 4 so what the hell you need to find this impressive ?
The opteron occed to 2200 beat the P 4 3.02 in every test they trow in , when we will hawe this year the patch for XP 64 this thing will rock , same thing for games coded in 64 .
We still bench here 32 bit appz and the A64 is clearly a winner .
08-19-2003, 07:41 AM
steppy76

Re: Re: several exciting new things at end of year

Quote:

Originally posted by TimisoaraKill
Must luve this stuff :)

Edit:/ Man , i still dunno how you people don't find the Opteron impressive . The 1.6 GHZ match the 2.8 GHZ P 4 so what the hell you need to find this impressive ?
The opteron occed to 2200 beat the P 4 3.02 in every test they trow in , when we will hawe this year the patch for XP 64 this thing will rock , same thing for games coded in 64 .
We still bench here 32 bit appz and the A64 is clearly a winner .

???? You've got an awful lot of if's that need to happen(a lot of which isn't happening anytime soon). So an A64 that is clocked 200Mhz faster than the likely fastest one available beats a non OC'ed P4 is impressive? XP64 and games optimized for x86-64 are a WAYS out yet, and 64-bit doesn't always translate into faster performance. A64 is FAR from a clear winner at this point, in fact most things point to a 1.6 A64 performing about at p4 2.8 levels. Some of you have to grasp one simple fact...A64 is gonna offer equivilent performance to the P4 nothing more, and not really much different from the way things are right now. A year ago it would have been clearly a winner, but against a P5 3.4 it may not even offer better performance in more than a couple isolated cases.
08-19-2003, 10:57 AM
TimisoaraKill

Re: Re: Re: several exciting new things at end of year

Quote:

Originally posted by steppy76
???? XP64 and games optimized for x86-64 are a WAYS out yet, and 64-bit doesn't always translate into faster performance.

This will be released official in 2 monts and no is not 'FAKE', as well som developers work for 64 bit games patches .
The Opteron benches are done with beta boards and i realy expect that with the new XP patch the thing will realy fly .
http://www.dslextreme.com/users/madc...ages/win64.jpg

Quote:

Originally posted by steppy76 A64 is FAR from a clear winner at this point, in fact most things point to a 1.6 A64 performing about at p4 2.8 levels. Some of you have to grasp one simple fact...A64 is gonna offer equivilent performance to the P4 nothing more, and not really much different from the way things are right now.

The P 4 3.4 will be maybe 5 Fps more faster than 3.02 so it clearly rip off the P4 in gamez @ 2.2 mhz , so @ 2400 mhz it will ripp off a P 4 3800 with ease.
UT2 is a very intenssive CPU benchmark and the best to see what a CPU can push out (this is cas 2.5):

http://www.amdzone.com/articleimages.../oc/ut2003.gif
08-19-2003, 11:29 AM
Daywalker

Re: several exciting new things at end of year

Quote:

Originally posted by Thunderbird1GHz
8. prescotts.....hope those overclock better than the northwood

Since when do Northwoods not overclock well? You'll understand if we do not take your opinion as gospel.
08-19-2003, 12:43 PM
natgun

TimisoaraKill,

that is only one benchmark of a chip that hasnt even been released yet. i fail to see how this is relevant whatsoever. also how is it that the p4 3.2 only gets 80fps in citadel botmatch? ive seen benchies where it gets well above 100fps. this benchmark is a load of crapola, if you beleive this kind of hype for a processor that hasnt been released, then i got a mac g5 to sell you. the simple fact remains, the p4c chips (at any speed) combined with either canterwood or springdale are the fastest performing computers available today. untill athlon 64 is released, and i see definative numbers otherwise, its all smoke and mirrors.
08-19-2003, 01:31 PM
TimisoaraKill

Quote:

Originally posted by natgun
TimisoaraKill,

that is only one benchmark of a chip that hasnt even been released yet. i fail to see how this is relevant whatsoever. also how is it that the p4 3.2 only gets 80fps in citadel botmatch? ive seen benchies where it gets well above 100fps. this benchmark is a load of crapola, if you beleive this kind of hype for a processor that hasnt been released, then i got a mac g5 to sell you. the simple fact remains, the p4c chips (at any speed) combined with either canterwood or springdale are the fastest performing computers available today. untill athlon 64 is released, and i see definative numbers otherwise, its all smoke and mirrors.

http://www.amdzone.com/articleview.cfm?ArticleID=1329

Is a review from a overclocked opteron to 2.2 , i cant understand what is so 'no relevant' .
True is that opteron 2.4 , 2.6 mhz will realy rock .
08-19-2003, 04:45 PM
steppy76

Quote:

Originally posted by TimisoaraKill
http://www.amdzone.com/articleview.cfm?ArticleID=1329

Is a review from a overclocked opteron to 2.2 , i cant understand what is so 'no relevant' .
True is that opteron 2.4 , 2.6 mhz will realy rock .

Because who knows when we'll see a production model at 2.2, and what P4 it will be up against. Also, you wouldn't put much stock in benches from a site called intelzone.com would you?
08-20-2003, 02:48 AM
Ulgen

Re: several exciting new things at end of year

Quote:

Originally posted by Thunderbird1GHz
3. fx5700. the successor to the fx5600, could compete against the 9800se

Anyone have any idea when this one's to come out?
08-20-2003, 09:01 AM
talldude

Quote:

Originally posted by steppy76
Because who knows when we'll see a production model at 2.2, and what P4 it will be up against. Also, you wouldn't put much stock in benches from a site called intelzone.com would you?

Oh, you haven't been keeping up with the news...AMD is launching the A64 @ 2.0Ghz and following it up with 2.2Ghz and 2.4Ghz in rapid succession. Furthermore, the first A64s will be nothing more than rebadged opterons - DCDDR, 1MB L2 etc etc. Later on they'll launch the budget A64 with SCDDR and 256kb L2.

Of course this info isn't set in stone. Things change, but I really do hope that AMD follows this release schedule.

As for Intel...They're having some HUGE problems with presscott. The thermal output figures are 15-20% higher than anticipated which means that ramping the clock speed over 3.4Ghz means over 100W of heat output. As a result the CPU will never be a Xeon variant and that the retail cooling will have to be something like an SLK-900 with a 40+cfm fan. Some people are speculating that Intel will have to redesign the CPU to quite a large degree. That means delays - more time for AMD to ramp up their A64 and Opteron.

If all of this holds true (which it likely does) then AMD will have the upper hand going into next year.
08-20-2003, 05:32 PM
steppy76

I've been keeping up with the news, but I don't believe anything about an AMD launch until the product actually shows up. Also, if Intel is having trouble with .09 that LOWERS my expectation of AMD having success with it. So in your opinion AMD having a better than expected launch(which goes against their history) and Intel not being able to solve problems they're experiencing(which goes against their past history)both of these "should hold true" even though both companies pasts dictate otherwise? I figure the problems Intel is having will be solved by a respin(think tbred a to tbred b), and I have very little hope of AMD getting the k8 core much higher if at all over the k7 core on .13...if they release at 2.0 and 2.2, that will be the fastest k8 for quite a while as I think a move to .09 will be needed for AMD to get above ~2.2.
08-20-2003, 06:13 PM
TimisoaraKill

Quote:

Originally posted by talldude
Oh, you haven't been keeping up with the news...AMD is launching the A64 @ 2.0Ghz and following it up with 2.2Ghz and 2.4Ghz in rapid succession. Furthermore, the first A64s will be nothing more than rebadged opterons - DCDDR, 1MB L2 etc etc. Later on they'll launch the budget A64 with SCDDR and 256kb L2.

As for Intel...They're having some HUGE problems with presscott. The thermal output figures are 15-20% higher than anticipated which means that ramping the clock speed over 3.4Ghz means over 100W of heat output. As a result the CPU will never be a Xeon variant and that the retail cooling will have to be something like an SLK-900 with a 40+cfm fan. Some people are speculating that Intel will have to redesign the CPU to quite a large degree. That means delays - more time for AMD to ramp up their A64 and Opteron.

Yes , i did not read this post anymore , from what i understand they will launch the 2.2 and 2.4 in the next 3 monts and the the first A64s will be in fact non certified server Opterons .
As for Presscott i also think that they will redesign the whole CPU , Intel is not stupid to launch such stuff in the market since you will need to start with the setup you mentioned or watercooling to cool this huge heat .
I still hawe no ideea why some people can't understand that from A64 release AMD will take the crown , people forget fast ,... when Intel had the flagship @ 1 Ghz , AMD was the king with 1.4 CPU's .
You bet that 2.4 A64 will occ @ 2.6 ,...Intel will never be able to beat such Cpu in the near future .
I dont hawe nothing against Intel , dont get me wrong but so far i think that this is the true about future CPU;s .
08-20-2003, 07:06 PM
Thunderbird1GHz

Intel may release the prescott at 3.2GHz and 3.4GHz for now then spend the next few months trying to get the next ones to run at a lower voltage, perhaps 1.2v so they make alot less heat, then the 3.6 and 3.8GHz wont make any more heat than the 3.4 additionally they can then go 65nm afterwards. It seems the a64s are dogs when it comes to ocing, also if Intel is right about the prescotts, they will be like 25% faster than the northwoods MHz per MHz and if the 2GHz a64 matches a 3.0c northwood, a prescott at 3.4GHz is gonna blow the 2GHz a64 by like a third! amd would need a 2.8GHz a64 to match a 3.4GHz prescott if Intels claims hold true. right now the barton 2.2GHz matches a 2.8c thats why people go Intel for high end, they have an edge right now. If the 3.4GHz prescott overclocks well and performs well, they will hold the performance crown. end of this year will get very interesting with new cpus and gpus :)
08-20-2003, 10:32 PM
steppy76

Quote:

Originally posted by TimisoaraKill
Yes , i did not read this post anymore , from what i understand they will launch the 2.2 and 2.4 in the next 3 monts and the the first A64s will be in fact non certified server Opterons .
As for Presscott i also think that they will redesign the whole CPU , Intel is not stupid to launch such stuff in the market since you will need to start with the setup you mentioned or watercooling to cool this huge heat .
I still hawe no ideea why some people can't understand that from A64 release AMD will take the crown , people forget fast ,... when Intel had the flagship @ 1 Ghz , AMD was the king with 1.4 CPU's .
You bet that 2.4 A64 will occ @ 2.6 ,...Intel will never be able to beat such Cpu in the near future .
I dont hawe nothing against Intel , dont get me wrong but so far i think that this is the true about future CPU;s .

Yeah, the point is AMD ALWAYS is gonna release such and such in "a few months", and then it's delayed, delayed some more, and released slower than originally anticipated. Also, your backward look in time is quite off...AMD and Intel got to 1 Ghz within 1 DAY of each other, and amd did get up to 1.2 before the Intel moved to the P4 line, not 1.4. AMD caught Intel with a mature core when intel switched to a new architecture(sound familiar? AMD's the one with a new architecture this time and with very little about chipsets and the like shown(and with what I heard about the k8 systems and quakecon, theres not a whole lot of stability on the chipset front)). What you think is gonna happen goes against all past history of the companies in question, and is full of a lot of IMO poor thought out speculation. Look back at the past 20 years of CPU's, and you'll see why. People laughed when I said .13 would get amd to 2.2 or so(back when 1.4-1.5 was the top end)...and I was right. People thought I was nuts when I said Nvidia was poised to lose it's crown with NV30 17 months before it debuted...and I was right. You think AMD is gonna get more Mhz out of a more complex core at the same process?...very doubtful. If Intel is having difficulty going to .09 that speaks volumes about AMD getting there any time soon(as Intel usually is a year ahead of AMD with process changes, and if AMD is a year away from .09 hammers that doesn't bode well for them in the scaling up the k8 quickly). Your post sounds like blind fanboyism with little substance other than inquirer "sneak peaks, rumors, and speculations". You tell what you think is gonna happen, but you don't give one single plausible reason to support why you think that. Oh well, I love serving crow.
08-20-2003, 10:54 PM
Highlander1

Re: several exciting new things at end of year

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Thunderbird1GHz
[B]1. pci express. it might appear on high end mobos at end of 2003. It should be on all mobos by end of 2004.

This will NOT happen. The chipsets that allow PCI Express arent even due till mid 2004.
08-21-2003, 12:20 AM
talldude

Quote:

Originally posted by steppy76
Yeah, the point is AMD ALWAYS is gonna release such and such in "a few months", and then it's delayed, delayed some more, and released slower than originally anticipated.....

You think AMD is gonna get more Mhz out of a more complex core at the same process?...very doubtful. If Intel is having difficulty going to .09 that speaks volumes about AMD getting there any time soon(as Intel usually is a year ahead of AMD with process changes, and if AMD is a year away from .09 hammers that doesn't bode well for them in the scaling up the k8 quickly).

AMD has already delayed the A64 like 3x, it's time to get it outta the door ;). Right now it is in full production and reports are that the yeilds are very good. I see no reason why it wouldn't be on time.

As for AMD having trouble with .09u manufacturing...well, they aren't doing it themselves this time. IBM has been a leader in pushing fabrication tech forward and they arguably have some of the best fabs in the world. Those fabs are going to be pushing out .09u A64s and Opterons.

PS. Sometimes people learn from history ;)
08-21-2003, 12:22 AM
masteraleph

10. Low response rate (16ms and lower) large LCDs. Sharp's releasing a 20" one next month, I believe, in Japan- 16ms response rate, and it's a S-IPS panel, not the lousy TN-dithering panels that the 17" panels are using (figured that was appropriate, seeing as this IS the video card & monitors board).
08-21-2003, 02:10 AM
Ulgen

Yeah, this thread should really be moved to the cpu forum...
08-21-2003, 03:53 AM
steppy76

Quote:

Originally posted by talldude
AMD has already delayed the A64 like 3x, it's time to get it outta the door ;). Right now it is in full production and reports are that the yeilds are very good. I see no reason why it wouldn't be on time.

As for AMD having trouble with .09u manufacturing...well, they aren't doing it themselves this time. IBM has been a leader in pushing fabrication tech forward and they arguably have some of the best fabs in the world. Those fabs are going to be pushing out .09u A64s and Opterons.

PS. Sometimes people learn from history ;)

Didn't something just come out the other day that A64 isn't gonna be available in volume till the new year?

I know it's gotta get out the door, but 2.0 I believe will be the fastest at launch, and it'll be some time before something faster comes out.

I also know they're going with IBM, and I think that will help them transistion sooner(maybe get them 6-9 months behind Intel instead of 12-15), but I don't think IBM will get them to overcome the problems any quicker than Intel(I'd say IBM and Intel roughly on par, but IBM has to make AMD's design work with the process rather than Intel being able to design for their Intel's own process).
08-21-2003, 08:06 AM
Thunderbird1GHz

From what I hear, the .13 a64s wont be worth buying unless you want another 15% faster rig and a bad overclocker. the 90nm ones are to get excited over in q2 of 2004