So I overclocked my 2500+... (sigh)

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10-28-2003, 03:41 PM
Mr Cherry

So I overclocked my 2500+... (sigh)

Okay, I downloaded nvidia's system utility and started getting the OC bug again. So I ramped the FSB, no post at 200.. damn would have been nice having a 3200+. I wanted to get at least 2ghz so that's what I did, upped the FSB to 182 (364 effectively) and ran 3Dmark2001SE. I got 100 more points (~8400 from 8300)!?! I went from 1.83 to 2.0 and I got only 100 more 3dmark points. I find that very strange anyone know how this could happen? Is this right to expect so little an increase?

This is all with stock cooling, and my temps only went up about 3-4 degrees.
10-28-2003, 03:43 PM
KaoTiK

Re: So I overclocked my 2500+... (sigh)

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr Cherry
Okay, I downloaded nvidia's system utility and started getting the OC bug again. So I ramped the FSB, no post at 200.. damn would have been nice having a 3200+. I wanted to get at least 2ghz so that's what I did, upped the FSB to 182 (364 effectively) and ran 3Dmark2001SE. I got 100 more points (~8400 from 8300)!?! I went from 1.83 to 2.0 and I got only 100 more 3dmark points. I find that very strange anyone know how this could happen? Is this right to expect so little an increase?

This is all with stock cooling, and my temps only went up about 3-4 degrees.

What do you expect from a Radeon 8500? Your card is what's holding you back.

If you got a 9800 Pro, those 170MHz would do you well... very well. :)
10-28-2003, 03:43 PM
xDUCK

Are things like Thermal Throttling disabled?

Also, if your video card is bottlenecking, the CPU won't do much. :(
10-28-2003, 03:47 PM
Mr Cherry

Quote:

Originally posted by xDUCK
Are things like Thermal Throttling disabled?

Also, if your video card is bottlenecking, the CPU won't do much. :(

I believe my BIOS has thermal throttling (or is it cpu throttling) at 50%, what does it do?

Quote:

What do you expect from a Radeon 8500? Your card is what's holding you back.

I was expecting 8500 points. I thought that it would scale a little better than 100 points for 170mhz.
10-28-2003, 03:48 PM
Thunderbird1GHz

Those are the following you need to do:

1. max the fsb, you may be able to do 190 to 195. not all mobos can do 200fsb. my kt400 maxed at 190. even the nf2 is no guarantee of 200.
2. after you max the fsb, raise the multiplier. If it cant be changed, your cpu is locked :(
3. overclock your video card, it goes a long way
4. set everything to performance
5. If you still want a higher score, a ti4200 should gain you over 2000 more marks, even 3000 if you get a very high overclock.
6. radeon8500s are slower than ti500s in 3dmark and games(I own both, so no flaming me) but their better IQ makes up for it
10-28-2003, 03:51 PM
xDUCK

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr Cherry
I believe my BIOS has thermal throttling (or is it cpu throttling) at 50%, what does it do?

I was expecting 8500 points. I thought that it would scale a little better than 100 points for 170mhz.

Thermal Throttling reduces the speed of your CPU when it gets "too hot" (subjective term, determined by motherboard ;)). As long as your temps aren't dangerously high, you would do well to disable it. Right now, your CPU is being clocked down to 50% speed when it gets hot. :eek:
10-28-2003, 03:54 PM
Mr Cherry

Quote:

Originally posted by Thunderbird1GHz
Those are the following you need to do:

1. max the fsb, you may be able to do 190 to 195. not all mobos can do 200fsb. my kt400 maxed at 190. even the nf2 is no guarantee of 200.
2. after you max the fsb, raise the multiplier. If it cant be changed, your cpu is locked :(
3. overclock your video card, it goes a long way
4. set everything to performance
5. If you still want a higher score, a ti4200 should gain you over 2000 more marks, even 3000 if you get a very high overclock.
6. radeon8500s are slower than ti500s in 3dmark and games(I own both, so no flaming me) but their better IQ makes up for it

1. I'll do that, but I want stability as well as performance.
2. I believe my mobo lets me change the multiplier, I'm new to AMD procs so I dont' have a lot of experience messing with multipliers, so well see.
3. NO WAY, had my last Radeon burn out on me, I added extra cooling after this one after I found the fan dying on me.
4. Tweaked and ready to rock
5. I plan on buying a 9700 soon, but first I need money, hence the OC no money involved (hopefully).
6. Mine (being a AIW DV) runs around a Ti200, and it smokes my friends G2 ultra.
10-28-2003, 03:55 PM
Mr Cherry

Quote:

Originally posted by xDUCK
Thermal Throttling reduces the speed of your CPU when it gets "too hot" (subjective term, determined by motherboard ;)). As long as your temps aren't dangerously high, you would do well to disable it. Right now, your CPU is being clocked down to 50% speed when it gets hot. :eek:

Well that's crap, I'm disabling that first thing.

thanks.
10-28-2003, 03:56 PM
xDUCK

Quote:

Originally posted by Thunderbird1GHz
Those are the following you need to do:

1. max the fsb, you may be able to do 190 to 195. not all mobos can do 200fsb. my kt400 maxed at 190. even the nf2 is no guarantee of 200.
2. after you max the fsb, raise the multiplier. If it cant be changed, your cpu is locked :(
3. overclock your video card, it goes a long way
4. set everything to performance
5. If you still want a higher score, a ti4200 should gain you over 2000 more marks, even 3000 if you get a very high overclock.
6. radeon8500s are slower than ti500s in 3dmark and games(I own both, so no flaming me) but their better IQ makes up for it

1) He has already stated that he maxed the FSB. Also, unless you get the A2 NB stepping, NF2 boards ARE a guarantee of 200FSB.
2) Everyone knows this. Don't speak to him like a newbie.
3) Fine.
4) See (2).
5) What are you talking about? He did not ask for upgrade advice.
6) COMPLETELY unrelated, why did you write this at all?
10-28-2003, 04:00 PM
KaoTiK

Quote:

Originally posted by xDUCK
Thermal Throttling reduces the speed of your CPU when it gets "too hot" (subjective term, determined by motherboard ;)). As long as your temps aren't dangerously high, you would do well to disable it. Right now, your CPU is being clocked down to 50% speed when it gets hot. :eek:

Well I mean... that wouldn't kick in until like 60C Plus, so I don't think that is to worry about, lol.
10-28-2003, 04:02 PM
xDUCK

Quote:

Originally posted by KaoTiK
Well I mean... that wouldn't kick in until like 60C Plus, so I don't think that is to worry about, lol.

Where did you get that figure? ;)

Also, pretty much every motherboard reads temperature wrong (usually too high) :D, so you really shouldn't leave TT on.
10-28-2003, 04:17 PM
KaoTiK

Quote:

Originally posted by xDUCK
Where did you get that figure? ;)

Also, pretty much every motherboard reads temperature wrong (usually too high) :D, so you really shouldn't leave TT on.

Well I've always left it on 50%, and I don't see my computer's performance getting cut in half... ever. :p ;)
10-28-2003, 04:18 PM
xDUCK

Quote:

Originally posted by KaoTiK
Well I've always left it on 50%, and I don't see my computer's performance getting cut in half... ever. :p ;)

Then run CPU-Z in the corner, turn Prime95 and F@H on, and watch it drop like a brick with an anvil tied to it. :D
10-28-2003, 04:19 PM
KaoTiK

Quote:

Originally posted by xDUCK
Then run CPU-Z in the corner, turn Prime95 and F@H on, and watch it drop like a brick with an anvil tied to it. :D

I will try that right now... brb. :D

Update: Just started prime95, already had F@H running. I have prime on burn mode, to get my CPU hot as possible. Got WCPUID running on the side. So far it's all good. :)
10-28-2003, 05:17 PM
mystifmagic

Quote:

Originally posted by xDUCK
Where did you get that figure? ;)

Also, pretty much every motherboard reads temperature wrong (usually too high) :D, so you really shouldn't leave TT on.

Generally a motherboard will read lower than the actual chip temprature unless it reads from the chip's diode. Boards that don't read from the chip's diode use the sensor under the chip, which isn't near the core so it will read lower temps. 60c isn't horrible, but if that isn't the chip's diode chances are the actual temp is higher.
10-28-2003, 05:24 PM
xDUCK

Quote:

Originally posted by mystifmagic
Generally a motherboard will read lower than the actual chip temprature unless it reads from the chip's diode. Boards that don't read from the chip's diode use the sensor under the chip, which isn't near the core so it will read lower temps. 60c isn't horrible, but if that isn't the chip's diode chances are the actual temp is higher.

Well, if it reads from a diode, then 60C is nothing. We are talking about socket temps. ;) (at 60C socket, die would be about 80C)
10-28-2003, 05:26 PM
Saffire

Are people correct in saying that the NF7 reads way off then? (10C for the d10 bios, and judging by the differences between the d10 and d18, about 6C for the d18 bios)
10-28-2003, 05:30 PM
mystifmagic

Quote:

Originally posted by xDUCK
(at 60C socket, die would be about 80C)

You are correct that it would be higher, but the exact temprature would be hard to guess because of all the different variables unless you checked yourself.
10-28-2003, 06:04 PM
xDUCK

Quote:

Originally posted by Saffire
Are people correct in saying that the NF7 reads way off then? (10C for the d10 bios, and judging by the differences between the d10 and d18, about 6C for the d18 bios)

Yes.
10-28-2003, 06:07 PM
Saffire

*clap* Sweet, so I'm at about 40 load (1.8 bios vcore I think) then. After putting in this watercooling stuff, my case temps have gone up by like 4C. Time to put in a blowhole :| (ARGH! taking stuff out the case again!)
10-29-2003, 02:12 PM
ThAz

My old mobo MSI KT3 Ultra showed lower cpu temps with the same processor than my new EPoX 8RDA3G. The MSI should read the temp from the thermal diode and the EPoX uses the socket diode. I relly don´t know which one to trust, but i seams like the EPoX bord (probably all NF2) reads temps higher that they relly are.

I relly hate the manufacturers for going back to socket diode. Just because a cople of pepole with crappy coolers started to call and whine :(
10-30-2003, 03:04 AM
tituswolf

Quote:

Originally posted by xDUCK
1) He has already stated that he maxed the FSB. Also, unless you get the A2 NB stepping, NF2 boards ARE a guarantee of 200FSB.
2) Everyone knows this. Don't speak to him like a newbie.
3) Fine.
4) See (2).
5) What are you talking about? He did not ask for upgrade advice.
6) COMPLETELY unrelated, why did you write this at all?

just one thing... nf2 ultra mobos obviously aren't guaranteed to reach 200 cause guess what... mine won't!!! damn asus...
10-30-2003, 03:10 AM
tituswolf

temps are really hard to judge, there is no constant when it comes to temp differences from the cpu diode to socket thermister. for instance my board (damn asus) reads direct from the cpu diode, right now its running at 42c, but socket temp is 37c, the higher i reach on the cpu diode temps the larger the discrepancy between the socket and cpu diode temps... for instance its not uncommon for when under extreme loads my proc will reach 50c cpu diode, and around 40c socket. a conclusion can be reached then as a general rule there higher your socket temps go the larger your difference in temps between the socket and cpu diode. at lower idle temps i would assume a 5c difference, under load assume at least 10c.
10-30-2003, 03:13 AM
thebove

Quote:

Originally posted by tituswolf
just one thing... nf2 ultra mobos obviously aren't guaranteed to reach 200 cause guess what... mine won't!!! damn asus...

nor will mine, but it's not an A1 northbridge, nor is it the 8rda+, which for whatever reason seems to do better than my non plus version.

as far as your score goes in 3dmark, i'd say you're hitting the videocard bottleneck pretty hard with that 8500dv. same thing happened to me when i had my ti500...i could clock my system up a good amount but would only see minimal gains in video performance, simply because the system had to wait for the videocard.
10-30-2003, 03:13 AM
xDUCK

Quote:

Originally posted by tituswolf
just one thing... nf2 ultra mobos obviously aren't guaranteed to reach 200 cause guess what... mine won't!!! damn asus...

Then you have an A2 NB. I had an A7N8X that would do 190FSB stable for days, but 191FSB was lucky if I could benchmark.

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